Helm
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Posts posted by Helm
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or you can accept that a poll such as this represents only the barest fraction o' purchasers and that regardless o' poll results the developers will be more interested in how QA folks actual play the game and alter their behaviors based on quest xp rewards... meaning this is largely a pointless endeavour. nevertheless, it don't hurt to do yet another poll on the same issue that has zero chance o' being changed at this point regardless o' results, so knock yourselves out.
HA! Good Fun!
ps we didn't add a vote
If everything we vote on or write is so meaningless, then why are you even here on the forum?
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Oh you..
And why are you, of all people, now giving me the roll-eyes?
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They should probably just rename the game Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests because you don't receive any experience from combat, using skills, exploring or anything else other than doing the bidding of villagers. Exploration apparently wasn't part of thier design methodology.It is hard to feel immersed in an RPG where the core activity is combat, yet stealth is king, because encounters are pointless and unrewarding chores with regard to both loot and XP. Obsidian might as well just remove the trash mobs too, because the mini-game of avoiding practically every encounter is not enjoyable.Baldur's Gate was about combat and exploration, but I guess combat and exploration aren't important anymore.
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Have you played the beta? it is by every definition a spiritual successor to the IE games.
Yes, i have played it and I disagree.
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I'm still trying to figuring out why it's acceptable that PE has a worse xp system than SRR. That's embarassing.
Some don't care because they can hardly wait to stealth their way through the game for a whole 3 hours of fun.
Or maybe the just have low standards, i'm not sure.
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As far as I know, those are definitely on the table. Just not implemented yet.
Nope, quest only XP has been confirmed.
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Accept this isn't going to be a BGII successor. It's an infinity engine style game. And last time I checked, BGII isn't the only infinity engine game.
Which Infinity Engine game are you talking about? We were promised a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate and this game doesn't resemble it at all.
Here is what Chris Avellone had to say about this game at MIGS 2013:
http://youtu.be/DJwti0mHgE0?t=25m19s
Baldur's Gate was our target title for what we wanted Project Eternity to be. It felt like Baldur's Gate encapsulated all of the elements we were shooting for. We felt that a number of players out there missed that Baldur's Gate experience and would want to see it again. And when we launched our Kickstarter: Boy, were we right!
The game is so full of Sawyerisms that it has nothing to do with any of the Infinity Engine games anymore. Looks like they failed to meet their design goal if you ask me.
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Sartoris and Immortalis are right about the problems with No XP.
Josh is also right about certain circumstances with where an "all creatures/enemies give you XP when you kill them" system leads to unwanted gameplay.
Why does it have to be one or the other? (I don't think you fairly represented the yellow corner, Mr. Mod!)
- In quest chains, the worry is that if you are asked to side with NPC 'A' or NPC 'B,' siding none and killing all will always be the outcome that nets most profit via XP and loot. While this was true in IE games, this can be balanced by giving no XP is one or the other is killed first, or equal rewards for killing neither or only one, or alternating based on the situation, etc. I hope no one sees this as a problem.
- Trash mobs in IE games gave a negligible amount of XP anyway. So what, 15xp from each Xvart split six ways, whoop-dee-doo! No big loss. But large, powerful creatures, or perhaps enemies above your level or that give some degree of challenge should give you a reward. Do you really want to only be killing things so you can collect the crap they drop and sell it?? It will very rarely be of use to your characters if every encounter works this way.
- Why not give give varying XP, including none, based on the type of encounter? The only reason against doing this that I can think of is that it would require a lot of balancing and effort from devs. Don't get me wrong, this is a valid reason if true, but one that only a dev can comment on.
So... what's wrong with a little of column A and a little of column B? Can't we do a bit of both, specifically to address the problems of either extreme?
If you go back and read the 1500 posts on this topic that are all in the threads that got locked.. I mentioned like 5 ways to get around this abuse.. one of them is close to what your saying.
This controversy has been going on for almost two years, and we have been making suggestions like this the entire time too. Sawyer won't budge and has full support of the OE bosses.
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Nope, it has nothing to do with D&D. You could make a very similar game to BG2 even if you used GURPS for example.
I think it has more to do with the fact that Josh Sawyer hates Baldur's Gate, but I'll ask Feargus why and see what he says.
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There was no degenerative gameplay before he tried to fix what isn't broken, if you ask me.The sad thing is that due to his misguided quest to remove any source of degenerate gameplay from Pillars of Eternity, he's simply introduced it in another form.
Sawyerisms = degenerative gameplay
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Nah, it was just a sugar coating.
I'm going to ask him why PoE doesn't feel like an Infinity Engine game at all.
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He would just call us an irrational grognards who love degenerative gameplay and hate balance, if he did show up here.
Then he would once again declare Baldurs Gate 2 as a terrible game, and that we are idiots for liking it, because Darklands is the best RPG ever.
I wonder how many people would kickstart a darklands RPG.. he's just an older grognard then us.. Omg.. Josh is a fanboy of his old school game and thinks IE is what we think PoE is.. IT ALL MAKES SENSE!
If you would compare PoE and Darklands and write down the similiarities, then I bet you would be very surprised.
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*flings poop*
We don't want any monkey business in here, Tartantyco.
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If I'v gained any non-combat experience on this forum..
He would just call us an irrational grognards who love degenerative gameplay and hate balance, if he did show up here.
Then he would once again declare Baldurs Gate 2 as a terrible game, and that we are idiots for liking it, because Darklands is the best RPG ever.
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The next Kickstarter is going to be a great chance to finally ask Feargus why PoE turned out to be completely different than what we were promised and why they thought it was a good idea to let a guy who hates Baldur's Gate make a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate.
I've been wondering why, so I'll ask him then. I hope he answers.
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No experience from combat
Was a better title.
I think we've broadened our discussion beyond combat XP.
"No experience from combat, using skills, exploring or doing anything other than the bidding of villagers"
would be the perfect title actually. But I guess this forum could use a bit less controversy.
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No experience from combat
Was a better title.-
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I'm gonna pass on this too.
....and on the CRPG too if Sawyer is involved.
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Wrong.
I talked my way out of numerous encounters in Divinity: Original Sin (which I recently played) and I didn't even get XP for these diplomatic solutions (God forbid). I was roleplaying and I decided in that playthrough that I don't want to kill them for their XP or loot. It was my decision in my game. I could have also just murdered them and received loot and XP as a reward, which would have been nice in that case.
Why is this so hard to understand? Why do you keep on repeating these absurd Sawyer-isms?
So, your argument is that you don't care about XP, therefore you need Kill-XP?
No, I like choice.
Do you not like loot drops when you kill something?
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You could do that in DnD too. I've had campaigns with big stretches of no combat at all, with XP gained for all kinds of other neat stuff. Once they brokered an alliance between some warring nomad barbarian clans so they could attack the kingdom attacking their kingdom. Involved a lot of sneaking across enemy lines with means magical and mundane, seduction, bribery, some Charm spells, some Wilderness Lore, a great deal of diplomacy, calling in favors, and what have you. Took several months of calendar time, and yes, the barbarian and rogue leveled up too.
Ahh, so you did actually reward combat with XP in these games, amirite?
This is nothing different than what we already have, your example is therefore irrelevant.
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The recommendation is ok, there is just way too much clutter at the bottom of the screen IMO. It really isn't much better than what we already have.
Improving the UI is a good idea, but the real problems are the absurd Sawyerisms at the game's core anyway.
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I'm just picking at semantics here, but realistically speaking, aren't you supposed to gain experience via combat anyway? There's a difference between swinging a sword a couple hundred times and actual combat, after all.
Rule of Sawyer No. 1:
The player must be able to become a powerful warrior and master lockpicker even if he never engages in combat and never picks a lock.
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Well JE Sawyer has clearly stated that bribing players to do combat is degenerative gameplay.. it means the combat sucked and wasn't fun.. Which means every wolf and beetle encounter is amazing on it's own.. you don't need rewards of any kind.
The point, Immortalis, is that you don't have to fight the wolves. The encounter doesn't have to be fun on its own. If there is kill-XP involved you will fight them for the XP. If there is not kill-XP involved you leave the wolves alone, like a reasonable person would do.
Wrong.
I talked my way out of numerous encounters in Divinity: Original Sin (which I recently played) and I didn't even get XP for these diplomatic solutions (God forbid). I was roleplaying and I decided in that playthrough that I don't want to kill them for their XP or loot. It was my decision in my game. I could have also just murdered them and received loot and XP as a reward, which would have been nice in that case.
Why is this so hard to understand? Why do you keep on repeating these absurd Sawyer-isms?
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Your right.. there's no way to solve this abusive behaivior except to axe the entire system.. like if theres a bump in the road.. lets just demolish the whole highway.
I'm just going to steal this excellent analogy.
Work is hard.. multi classing.. unique classes with special feats.. balanced combat xp.. its too hard... it's too much work to keep track of it.. good thing our "publisher" is now a forum of 15 year old cry babies.. otherwise we might be held accountable and actually need to work a little overtime here and there..
God forbid, don't make the devs work too hard so that they actually make a good game.
Sawyer needs his five hour Siesta every day, poor guy.
/sarcasm
It's interesting to see the huge difference between InXile and Obsidian and how they deal with their community. I am sure many people weren't happy with the direction of wasteland 2.. but at least Brother None doesn't treat / ignore his own community like they are disease ridden pariahs after the checks all cash.
Yep. Inxile listens to and communicates with their community.
All Obsidian does is tell us to suck on an Oscar Mayer Wiener. At least it feels that way.
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Do you want experience from combat?
in Backer Beta Discussion
Posted
Yep, a lot of people have left, during the Kickstarter even. They could smell the foulness of these decisions miles away. I wish my RPG sniffer was as good as theirs. (To my defense, I wasn't following the Kickstarter as closely as I should have)