Helm
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Posts posted by Helm
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5) the class system thats very similar to the D&D classes of all the IE games
6) the weapons, armor, and other basic equipment that are similar to those in the IE games
7) the quest and task system which is similar to the IE games
9) the leveling system which is similar to the IE games
11) Great music similar to that of the IE games
12) A forum where some people can't seem to do anything but complain - like the IE games...
My roflcopter just took off.
The class system has been streamlined and casualized, it can't even compete with the one in Diablo. And so on.Anyway, I asked you to describe the core mechanics. I didn't ask you to make a list of superficial aesthetic stuff, half of which is wrong anyway.
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the only worry/concern for us is that obsidian already has an expansion for PoE in the works and as such, some know problems or concerns may be considered expansion fodder for the developers.
IF there is an expansion, that is.
...If you catch my drift.
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So you think that Obsidian should back down from one of their goals and promises that they set in during KS campaign, which was "Avoiding combat does not lead to less experience gain. You shouldn't go up levels any slower by using your non-combat skills rather than your combat skills. We plan to reward you for your accomplishments, not for your body count.". Or do you think that asymmetry should go other way, meaning that non-combat solution should produce more experience than combat solutions?
Aha. Let us once again look at what they promised us in context:
"Non-combat skills are gained separately from combat skills. [...] They should be separate types of abilities, and you should spend different points to get each one."
When I level up I can spend points on separate combat and non-combat abilities. Sounds great!
"Combat can be avoided with non-combat skills. [...] Perhaps you can re-sanctify a desecrated cemetery to prevent any further undead from rising, or maybe figuring out a way across a ruined bridge will always avoid the bandits on this side of the river."
If I re-sanctify a desecrated cemetery using a non-combat ability, then I don't need to fight the skellies! Wow, that sounds fantastic! But do I get (extra) XP for doing so?
"Avoiding combat does not lead to less experience gain. You shouldn't go up levels any slower by using your non-combat skills rather than your combat skills. We plan to reward you for your accomplishments, not for your body count."
I would still get XP for using my head and re-sanctifying the desecrated cemetery and not just obliterating them in close combat. Hell yeah!
Design Goals
In putting together our non-combat system, we have made a list of goals for the design of these skills and the rules they need to follow.
- Non-combat skills are gained separately from combat skills. You shouldn't have to choose between Magic Missile and Herbalism. They should be separate types of abilities, and you should spend different points to get each one.
- Non-combat skills do not use the same resources as combat skills. You don't spend the same stuff for a non-combat skill as you do for combat skills. Some don't use anything at all to use, so you will never find yourself unable to blast an opponent if you get caught sneaking.
- All non-combat skills are useful. If we add lockpicking to the game, we will make sure that there are locks to pick and worthwhile rewards for getting past them.
- All non-combat skills can be used frequently. If you take disarm traps as a skill, you should expect more than two traps in the entire game world. Frequency of application has a large impact on how useful something is.
- Combat can be avoided with non-combat skills. There will often be ways to avoid fighting. Yes, we will have the standard methods of talking your way out of a fight or sneaking around an encounter, but there will be other ways too. Perhaps you can re-sanctify a desecrated cemetery to prevent any further undead from rising, or maybe figuring out a way across a ruined bridge will always avoid the bandits on this side of the river.
- Avoiding combat does not lead to less experience gain. You shouldn't go up levels any slower by using your non-combat skills rather than your combat skills. We plan to reward you for your accomplishments, not for your body count.
It sounds like the typical description of an IE game actually (maybe with just a bit more flavor though). I am not surprised that the IE fans threw their money at Obsidian after reading this, because they promised to reward us accordingly for our accomplishments and promised us that non-combat skills can be used to avoid combat in certain situations. And most important of all, they promised to reward these choices accordingly. I am not seeing any of this in the game.
"We will only reward the player for doing the bidding of villagers. You can only get XP by doing these quests and nothing else. Our combat is not rewarded accordingly, so you can just skip it (almost always possible) with your always-on stealth ability. Oh, and I hate Baldur's gate, so don't expect anything similar. Trollolololol"
This is what we got. Sounds like a classic bait and switch if you ask me. I am very disappointed.
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I don't care about what you feel that it's fun for you.
We don't care what you think is fun either.
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It looks like BG, it has good writing like in BG, but it doesn't feel like BG. At all. I probably wouldn't complain if we were actually given what we were promised.
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It doesn't make those things pointless at all. Do all games give you experience points for every little thing you do? No. I think that quest exp is the proper way to focus the game. Exploration is a part of completing quests and there's always loot as well and lore, etc.
I don't know why you think that engaging in unrewarding and risky combat is not pointless. We might as well just remove XP from another core activity of the game, which is questing, if XP rewards are not required to give the player an incentive to do stuff.
Just let the party level up while you advance through the main storyline. Questing, combat and exploration are all "just for fun".
Sounds great. GOTY I think.-
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I don't get what is wrong with experience being awarded for completing quests. I think the only change I might make is awarding experience for completing stages of quests.
Because quest only XP makes many of the core activities of the game pointless. Like combat, exploration, etc. It should be rewarded additionally and not solely.
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Ahh, so now even the advocates of this borked design are also admitting that this game doesn't resemble the amazing IE games. Good, very good.
We thought we had backed the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate!
Why is it that almost every advocate for combat xp is an irritating zealot on the issue? You're not more of an IE game fan for preferring a certain XP reward system so stop trying to monopolise the right to define what is and what isn't a spritual succesor to the Infinity Engine games.
PoE isn't a spiritual successor because the core mechanics of the games that we loved are not there. That is something that happens when the lead designer hates the game he is supposed to be making a spiritual successor to.
Obsidian promised us an Infinity Engine experience (Baldur's Gate to be specific) and what we got was an RPG with a casualized character system, always-on super stealth mode, quest only XP where you must do the bidding of villagers to get XP, pointless and unrewarding combat, lack of choice (all choices matter equally), lackluster music, no exploration, the itemization appears to be lame, HP bloat and so on. It probably wouldn't be so bad if it was actually good, but it isn't. But at least the writing is good. lol
BTW we are advocating for ways to get XP other than by doing the bidding of villagers, for example by exploring or engaging in combat. You know, like in the IE games.
Ahh, so now even the advocates of this borked design are also admitting that this game doesn't resemble the amazing IE games. Good, very good.
We thought we had backed the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate!
Really? You mean other than the isometric view, the companions, the tactical group combat and engaging storyline that reacts to your decisions/actions?
Which game are you talking about? Arcanum? Darklands? Fallout? You have to be more specific and describe the core mechanics of the game.
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Personally what I got from the devs from Kickstarter to present was not that Eternity was going to be a clone of the best of the IE games - it was that it was going to be an isometric view RPG with numerous classes & companions featuring tactical group combat with an engaging story that reacts to your decisions/actions.
Nothing I have seen thus far indicates to me that this is not what we are getting.
Ahh, so now even the advocates of this borked design are also admitting that this game doesn't resemble the amazing IE games. Good, very good.
We thought we had backed the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate!
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The inventory system are genius in my book, so easy to manage equipment for the whole party compared to other games. Think more games will use the same system in the future.
I think the icons are way too small and I don't like that the inventory is not limited by weight and/or volume. The endless stash mechanic also trounces on my feeling of immersion.
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PoE is a role-play game that allows sneaky and diplomatic.
No, it's a combat oriented roleplaying game that passively encourages the player to avoid the completely optional combat. I guess you could call it a pseudo combat oriented RPG... or an isometric fantasy party-based uh... sneaky game? I'm not really sure what you should call it, because it feels like a new genre... I think i'll just call it isometric hybrid-crap or a Sawyer RPG for now.
BTW the BG series had diplomatic and non-violent solutions too. They had a lot of flavor just without the completely borked core design.
give xp awards for individual kills, and individual lockpicks and individual whatever inevitably leads to an ideal approach for maximizing xp by making the right gameplay and character development choices.
Gromnir, you don't need to do every possible activity in an RPG just because it rewards the player with XP. You also don't need to always take the choice that gives you the most XP or loot and you don't have to finish every quest.
My roleplaying choices are more important to me than XP or even loot in many cases anyway. I will abstain from huge chunks of XP or good loot if I think that my choice is meaningful. I do however also enjoy being rewarded with extra XP or loot for making smart choices, like somehow exorcising a graveyard full of skeletons so that I don't have to engage them directly in combat.
BTW you can't even do that in PoE. These Sawyerisms like balance and all choices matter equally amd always-on super stealth mode make me cringe, I hate it when a game designer removes choice from the equation.
fallout is an example. is not a handful o' folks exploiting. is the fallout community as a whole quickly realizing that there were clear best builds.
"Oh noes, I can powergame in Fallout by metagaming because of the wonders of the Internet. Game sux."
That is real smart Gromnir.
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Hi there, common sense man.Hi, my name is common sense man.
This is like trying to love Janet Reno. I can't love this.it is a little too late to redesign the entire exp system which is one of the core backbones of the game. They literally do not have the time. So maybe we should all just suck it up and try to learn to love what we have.
They need to delay the game and fix it.
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Real men dual wield their pistols.
Everyone knows that.
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I'm all for combat XP but these polls are getting ridiculous.
Yes, 50% of the players want it, 50% do not. No, it is not difficult to implement, Obsidian said so. It's crystal clear by now that there's no easy choice here, iterating this nonsense over and over won't change that, so stop making superfluous spam threads and let Obsidian decide how they'll react to the community preference (or lack thereof).
Your post has inspired me to create the Definitive Experience Points Poll. It will be the mother of all XP polls, you'll see.
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Because it slowly turned into captain ahab chasing the white whale of kill-xp. You wont get it, like some other things it wont change no matter how long you discuss it. I agree that it is disheartening to see thing not in the game that you personaly really like but at this point it doesnt matter anymore. Aim your effort at something that is not set in stone, deal with it and move along.
I've been wondering, do you hate combat XP or are you just an extremely loyal fan?
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Doctor Jones, Jones, Calling Doctor JonesDoctor Jones, Doctor Jones, Wake up nowAh-yippie-yi-yuAh-yippie-yi-yeahAh-yippie-yi-yu-ah
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No the worst "bug" is that people like you do not seem to understand what kickstarter actually is.
Funny, I didn't have any problems with D:OS or Shadowrun:Returns. WL2 is looking good too.
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Let's address some of your falsities. Not having grindxp has nothing to do with RP. Second, even w/o grindxp there are tangable awards: loot.
Well now we have avoidcombat XP and useless loot drops. GOTY quality gaming.
BTW there was no grinding in Baldur's Gate. You have no idea what you are talking about if you considered the combat in BG to be grinding.
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^ I agree, but it isn't Justin Bell's fault, he just composes what he told is to compose.
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I love how suddenly we're all masters of the profession.
THIS IS WHY WE HAVE BETA TESTING. To find these bugs - see how problematic they are, find out what people like, what they think sucks, any tweaks and systems that need to be changed. Yes, pathfinder sucks and the AI is a bit wonky (but it was fine in the old IE games, right lolololz).
The worst bugs in this game are the Sawyerisms that plague it.
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^ He's saying that D:OS is a fantastic game and that this won't be a fantastic game.
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So they really want to shove this game out the door this year?
Oh boy.
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Indira inspired me to check out update #7:
Design Goals
In putting together our non-combat system, we have made a list of goals for the design of these skills and the rules they need to follow.- Non-combat skills are gained separately from combat skills. You shouldn't have to choose between Magic Missile and Herbalism. They should be separate types of abilities, and you should spend different points to get each one.
- Non-combat skills do not use the same resources as combat skills. You don't spend the same stuff for a non-combat skill as you do for combat skills. Some don't use anything at all to use, so you will never find yourself unable to blast an opponent if you get caught sneaking.
- All non-combat skills are useful. If we add lockpicking to the game, we will make sure that there are locks to pick and worthwhile rewards for getting past them.
- All non-combat skills can be used frequently. If you take disarm traps as a skill, you should expect more than two traps in the entire game world. Frequency of application has a large impact on how useful something is.
- Combat can be avoided with non-combat skills. There will often be ways to avoid fighting. Yes, we will have the standard methods of talking your way out of a fight or sneaking around an encounter, but there will be other ways too. Perhaps you can re-sanctify a desecrated cemetery to prevent any further undead from rising, or maybe figuring out a way across a ruined bridge will always avoid the bandits on this side of the river.
- Avoiding combat does not lead to less experience gain. You shouldn't go up levels any slower by using your non-combat skills rather than your combat skills. We plan to reward you for your accomplishments, not for your body count.
I hightlighted the interesting stuff. They sugar coated the truth real nice.
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Bg2 has terrible itemization. It full of ridiculously op items that marginalized character development
You have no idea what you are talking about.
I am very happy Obsidian is taking a long hard look at this stuff and making some changes.
They are dumbing quite a bit down as it seems. I think you'll like it.
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The class system has been streamlined and casualized, it can't even compete with the one in Diablo. And so on.
Sounds great. GOTY I think.
Crowdfunding is now over!
in Pillars of Eternity: Announcements & News
Posted
I believe an additional 30,000 people backed this game after the kickstarter ended (I can't remember where I saw that, google might help though), so like 1.5m to 2m dollars on top of the 4m from the Kickstarter.
The average team size was about 20 to 25 developers. So, yeah, I have no idea where that money went either.