Helm
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Posts posted by Helm
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Gromnir, we have told you numerous times that quest only XP and objective XP are not the same thing at all.
Not to mention that that poll was take about two years ago way before anybody even touched the beta (and gave the developer the benefit of the doubt).
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Yeah, Zan, I think you're one of the people who tries to break out of these confining roles which folks want to assign to us. The fact is, the person who flames you regarding combat XP today might be the person backing you up on romances (one way or the other) tomorrow. I do think sometimes sides can be diametrically opposed, but I also firmly believe that sometimes people trying to think outside of the entrenched positions can help break through from time to time.
I would agree with that.. although I do agree with some of the nay sayers of combat xp on other topics.. When I see how disrespectful and rude they get I almost feel dirty agreeing with them on anything..
It also doesn't help that Obsidian doesn't make any statements about this controversy. They have chosen to simply ignore us, which adds additonal heat to these discussions.
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Obsidian is giving us something much different than what they promised.
That is a lot more than a subjective impression. It is also a lie.
I see you are in denial mode once again. Numerous people (even in this thread) have already stated that this game doesn't feel like an IE game. Even those who actually like this ludicrous game.
Anyway, please be so kind and point out where Obsidian promised us a stealth simulator with completely optional combat, an absurd XP system that doesn't reward the player accordingly for his achievements (=quest XP only), a completely borked RPG system that suffers from cookie cutter syndrome and impotent attributes et. al, regenerating health and all of the other stuff that has been mentioned endless times on these forums.
They did also lay out in considerable detail what they felt constitute an "IE game spiritual successor." First in the initial pitch, then in the updates over the course of the campaign.
As I said, it's remarkable how little they've drifted from what they described there.
That is a lot more than a subjective impression. It is also a lie.
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I love the idea of the Crises in T:ToN.
They're also totally not what you'd expect to find in an IE successor.
The thing with PS:T is that that game's distinguishing characteristics really don't have much to do with the engine. It's all in the writing and art direction, and those could be executed in almost any medium—book, comic, film, first-person, third-person, top-down, real-time, turn-based, you name it. So they have a lot more freedom about gameplay than the P:E team ever did, as these threads demonstrate.
Inxile were very clear about their vision for T:ToN straight from the beginning. Nothing has changed either.
Obsidian is giving us something much different than what they promised.
Major difference.
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Sawyer hates the EPIC wizard battles in BG2 and also hates hard counters. PoE isn't a game for the IE fans, this is a game for people who loathed the IE games, for people like Josh Sawyer.
Tell me, Helm. Why do you lie?
Tell me Primejunta, why are you in denial?
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Just skip the combat, it is completely optional anyway.
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Project Eternity aims to recapture the magic, imagination, depth, and nostalgia of classic RPG's that we enjoyed making - and playing.
What a nice pitch! It's almost like they were thinking what a lot of others were thinking. That the crpg golden age consisted of some IE games that we all love and adore and they'd like to "recapture" (as they put it) that feeling. I'm definitely down so far...
Project Eternity will take the central hero, memorable companions and the epic exploration of Baldur’s Gate, add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale, and tie it all together with the emotional writing and mature thematic exploration of Planescape: Torment.
Well hell sign me up! I think the translation of this looks like: "We're going to take the best stuff from all 3 and combine it into one game." Again this is Obsidian's pitch not mine after all.
What Obsidian Entertainment did not say:
We're going to add the slightly modified combat mechanics of IE games, the quest based system of experience gain of V:tM, the non-epic wizard battles you love, add in a health system to prevent "rest abuse", streamline most of the classes, add in an archaic crafting system not reflective of Baldur's Gate II, put our own spin on fantasy lore and add an epic TES sounding soundtrack to realize our goal of making a new IE style game!
Strangely, I don't think they would've quite gotten as much money from their kickstarter. You know what with all the "new" ideas and stuff. Now mind you i typed all that with my tongue in my cheek but for some that stuff up there might be a deal breaker. It's simple really. The more changes you make to the "style" of the IE games the more you risk alienation of the very people that funded you making the game in the first place and although it does keep the bones of it's predecessors they've got a lot of work ahead of them to get closer to the "perfect formula" that many remember from days long past.
Yeah, this can't be said enough. The game has nothing to do with our beloved IE games, which is not what they promised us.
Note: I, for one, REALLY enjoyed the BG II wizard battles as they were epic. The only change that was needed was the curve of "dispel wizard buffs or die" needed to be softened quite a bit. An epic wizard battle where your wizard is blasting spells to counter the opposing wizard or holding off a finger of doom with a channeled spell while your priest is stripping off buffs and your warrior is tanking the adds the wizard has summoned would be BADASS but i'm pretty sure that kind of fight wouldn't be streamlined enough for Josh
. Wizards are crap by comparison in PoE.Sawyer hates the EPIC wizard battles in BG2 and also hates hard counters. PoE isn't a game for the IE fans, this is a game for people who loathed the IE games, for people like Josh Sawyer.
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Less bugs, slightly improved combat...
Game is still terrible for exactly the same reasons.
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And before Helm trolls again, note I never said I was against combat xp, I was against grind xp. I would like tough mobs give xp, but seriously I don't want every single rat, beetle, or bunny to give xp.
Yes, we want all of the forest critters like squirrels, chipmunks, deer, etc. to give 1 XP each so we can grind them all day...
Nobody here ever said that they want to grind all day, they simply said that they want to be rewarded properly for their achievements, like in the in the IE games.
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Hopefully this patch removes some of the absurd Sawyerisms that plague this game.
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Well, I wasn't expecting Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests, I was expecting something that actually rewards the player for his achievements, which includes combat. You know, like in the IE games.
Nice strawman BTW - 8/10
Killing a couple of Kobolds isn't an achievement. Slaughtering a Xvart village isn't an achievement. You going out of your way and endangering the lives of your party members is not an achievement.
1. Endangering the lives of your party members by slaughtering an ogre for combat XP isn't an achievement.
2. Endangering the lives of your party members by slaughtering an ogre for quest XP is an achievement!
Hurra!
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Granted, I'm not the rabid fan type that seeks out every scrap of info and post that the devs make, but I followed the KS campaign pretty closely and was pretty active on the boards here as well. I had no idea of Sawyer's disdain for the BG games.
Heh, I sometimes wonder about the 99% of backers that don't frequent the forum are going to react. I think a lot of backers simply took the "IE experience" at face value and while we can do a bunch of mental gymnastics to point out this or that feature, at the end of the day it doesn't feel IE-like to me. Were going to need more moderators in a few months...
The forum meltdown is going to be glorious.
"POE, WHY U NO PLAY LIKE BALDUR'S GATE!?" lol
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According to Helm, they apparently promised "Kill-XP: The Game" during their Kickstarter campaign. To those of us who actually understand that the IE games are a little more than just Kill-XP and DnD, Obsidian seem to be right on course with Pillars of Eternity.
Well, I wasn't expecting Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests, I was expecting something that actually rewards the player for his achievements, which includes combat. You know, like in the IE games.
Nice strawman BTW - 8/10
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And comments like this is the reason why I think BG2 has to be one of the most overrated RPGs of all time.
I agree - which is weird as I love BG2. But I guess it's only a small portion of its fans that think it was nearly perfect in all aspects. It was great because it was great as a whole, not because every individual component was stellar.
I've never heard any fan saying it was perfect in all aspects. In my opinion it is the best game ever made but in the sense that, as you say, the game was great as a whole, not because every individual component was stellar.
A lot of us think that Baldur's Gate 2 is the best game ever made, and that is why we are here.
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If XP is what is necessary to make combat enjoyable, then you're the problem in the equation.
Oh really?
-> "If XP is what is necessary to make quests enjoyable, then you're the problem in the equation."
Yeah, I can play that game too.
Honestly, the idea of quest xp alone makes me feel a bit sad. I enjoyed exploring the wide open wilderness of BG1. If PE has big wilderness areas and exploration xp, I'll be happy without combat xp.
The lead designer hates the Baldur's Gate series, so what the BG fans enjoy is completely irrelevant.
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Personally, I'm convinced that they are listening. I've been following OE closely since they released NWN2, and they have always been a company that listened and adapted to all kinds of feedback.
No, they are not listening and they are not delivering what they promised either. I didn't back an isometric stealth game with pointless and dull combat, a lackluster skill/trait system and an impotent attribute system. The game looks beautiful (thanks Kaz and Hector!) but that is about it.
I wasn't expecting the high quality and depth of Baldur's Gate, but I was certainly expecting something with more depth than Dragon Age: Origins.
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It gives you freedom to be critical, but not to be a complete douche. That's the last thing I'm going to say, this is stupid.
I think you guys are being complete douches, because you don't this to be a good game like I do.
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Ever thought about the fact that they quoted planescape torment way more often than baldurs gate1/2 and icewind dale1/2 combined?
Ah yes, another prime example of a backer in denial.
Obsidian specifically stated that Baldur's Gate is their design goal for PoE. They simply made the mistake of letting Josh Sawyer (someone who hates Baldur's Gate) design the game.
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Gosh, hard to believe how butthurt some people can get when they have to deal with the truth. Now your whining about the criticizers is even getting personal.
Bug fixing is not enough to save this game, that is why we have numerous threads about the terrible systems design and how bad the game is. You guys should learn to embrace reality and stop living in denial.
By the way, I am a backer. I just haven't linked my backer account to my forum account. It gives me the freedom to be extremely critical.
You guys could have figured that out yourselves, but I guess you were too busy flaming all the criticizers and whining about their opinion because they hate the game.-
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Are you guys complaining a clearly still in progress beta isn't as good as a fully released game called Baldur's Gate 2 that has had almost a decade of patching and fan contributions to it again? Could we at least wait for the backer beta to get it's first patch before we keep beating a dead horse? This is a BETA, a REAL BETA. This is what they are all like, get over it.
Maybee its just because he is pissed about the constant whine.
The butthurt starts to really reach critical mass, the whine about a (of course) buggy beta that only shows a small part of the whole game is seriously over the top by now.
The game is not only terrible, but it doesn't resemble the IE games at all. The bugs have nothing to do with the fact that the game is bad.
Obsidian has absolutely no interest in fixing Sawyer's absurd design, so I guess you're right, it might be better to just shut up and watch this game miserably fail. So many people have dropped support of this isometric stealth simulator simply because Obsidian completely ignores their backers.
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Interesting to see that the proponents of quest-only-XP are also admitting that PoE doesn't resemble the IE games at all.
Anyway, this game was sold on nostalgia with very similar mechanics to the IE games. We are not seeing any of this nostalgia or any other similarities other than pre-rendered backgrounds, isometric view and party-based combat - it takes more than that to make a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate.
Obsidian doesn't have any interest in fixing this game anyway. They could have pulled the plug on Sawyer's terrible design long ago, but they didn't, they fully supported him straight from the beginning. Whining on the forums about how bad this game is, and that it deviates too far from the formula that made the IE games great, won't change anything either.
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The system is absurd and should be scrapped. An HP + injury system would be a much better choice IMO.
But nothing will change anyway.
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VICTORY
Not really, because this poll won't change anything. PoE will never resemble an Infinity Engine game and the systems will stay borked.
Just buy Icewind Dale Enhanced Edition and forget about
Pillars of EternityJosh Sawyer's Dream RPG. -
ITT:
Pro-Kill-XPersPro-Quest-Only-XPers make up insane scenarios in an attempt to makeQuest-XP-onlyQuest-XP + Combat-XP + Exploration-XP + Skill-Usage-XP + Objective-XP look bad.Fixed that for you buddy.
. Wizards are crap by comparison in PoE.
Are they even listening to our feedback?
in Backer Beta Discussion
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I also agree. I have no idea why Obsidian kickstarted a spiritual successor to the IE games although they think that the core mechanics of those games are terrible and therefore need to be fixed.
The backers liked the IE games as they were, all Obsidian needed to do was replace the AD&D system with something else (with something at least as good) and everyone would have been happy.