Cultist
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Posts posted by Cultist
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Aha.. Because you clearly were ery helpfull to the developers and immediately suggested ways to make the system work.
No, you went "This system sucks. Durability sucks! No durability!"
Allow me to translate your text:
"You contribute nothing! All you have to do is invest SOME to get 500% in return after first month. And yet you refuse to invite five of your friends to invest in our promising business. But no, you just complain and complain. Questioning the safety of your money instead of thinking about the future, expensive car and your own villa."
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You act like a mother, who tries to persuade her child to eat food child hates, telling that "It's tasty! Don't say it's not because it is! Eat!".
I never said anything about mechanics that will satisfy everyone. But durability got axed for good because people voiced their disapproval. So there was an option - try to fix a mechanics that is, at best, not-so-annoying, or remove controversial mechanics completely.
We won.
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Personally I was more interested in item durabiltiy than crafting. Sad to see it go.
Many anti-durability arguments are downright RETARDED.
"Oh, I didn't like the durabiltiy system in game X so it can't possibly work here!"
"Oh, I didn't want to be bothered with it!"
"What? Having to cary a sidearm in case my main weapon is damaged? So tedious! So stupid! Who would EVER carry a sidearm?"
"But magican weapons should NEVER break...because magic"
Really?
I could go to a mental ward and write down statements that make more sense.
You people are a cancer that's killing good games and are removing all depth from them.
Yes I said it. Feel free to hate me, cause I sure as hell hate you.
And as a cancer, we know that the one true cure is to cut cancer out.
Now, let's play that retarded argument game together:
"We need durability, because depth!"
"We need durability, bceause this time we will surely make it right! others have failed, but we will succeed!"
"Of course people will be happy to roleplay real knight with several degrading sidearms, taking time to wear their Full Plate Armor before each battle and taking it off after and changing into common clothes. Everyone loves realism!"
I, personally, am fed with experimenting on RPGs, uh-huh, enjoy your Derp Age 2, and I expect to play a classic Infinity engine game, without timers glued to my equipment.
Also, have you noticed that majority of durability approving comments here, on SA and kickstarter were in a way of "it is only mildly annoying" or "the effect is minor, I can ignore it"?
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Never saw a good implementation of cooking in games. Skyrim appealed mostly to hoarding types who grabbed every garlic in the city and then enjoyed their times preparing super complex meals that was less effective than cheapest potion.
Will see how it works out here. With durability we had some information, with cooking we have none.
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I loved how it could customise weaponry to your preference. For instance, My lightsabers were heavily focused on reflection. I could easily have gone for more damage instead, or focus on more armour penetration.
Yes, the only thing I didn't like about the KOTOR2 Crafting system was the interface. lists are... not always easy to oversee.
Yeah, UI was horrible. Especially with all that excessive clicks. you forgot to something and you click all that menus once again.
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Dead Island. Grrrrrrrreat enjoyment in being stuffed with 5 weapons and constantly repairing them. Oh, and by the way - repairs were cheap and accessable. Somehow, upon leveling up everyone chosen Durability without a single thought.
1. Delving into dungeon with Hammer of the Gods +40 that I managed to aquire early in some epic quest.
2. A room full of of rats.
3. Waste my ultra-expensive weapon durability on rats? With repair costing me a fortune? Nevurrrr! Here, take some short swords and wave for 5 minutes BG style due to lack of to hit bonus.
4. Oh, wow, Lich teleported in a room after you killed all gibberlings!
5. Click 1 Character=>Open inventory=>Change weapon=>close inventory
6. Click 2 Character=>Open inventory=>Change weapon=>close inventory
7. Click 3 Character=>Open inventory=>Change weapon=>close inventory
8. Click 4 Character=>Open inventory=>Change weapon=>close inventory
9. Click 5 Character=>Open inventory=>Change weapon=>close inventory
10. Click 6 Character=>Open inventory=>Change weapon=>close inventory
11. ENJOYMENT!!!
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Underrepresented Items is a well known mod for BG2 which fixed one of the main drawbacks in combat system - obviously, underrepresented weapons. Two-handed axes, daggers, quarterstaves, bastard sword, maces, halberds, darts etc.
All that underrepresentation have ben caused mostly due to BG2 introducing a lot of weapon types specializations.
Instead of short swords, polearms and such we had scimitars, halberds, bastard swords and every other variation. So at the beginning some people chosen some weapon type only to find later that there were no such weapons for higher levels.
Please, try to avoid it in PE.
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I will not buy 350k words of additional content after BGEE. At least make your Enchanted Edition actually work for 2 hours without crashing, glitching or screwing in some other yet to be known way.
Releasing a remake that is worse than most popular mods? Way to go, Trent, way to go,
And Beamdong announces that they are looking forward to BG3? Hope they'll go bankrupt beforethey could spoil BG2 and potential BG3 as well.
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That just proves you are either exceptionally close-minded or exceptionally prejudiced.
Nothing more.
You dont KNOW. You THINK you know. And that very mentality only digs you deeper.
Meaning, you have created your own prison.
"You must try everything" is a flawed philosophy. I would not try drugs because i know they will screw me. Or go to ghetto to know that being robbed and beaten is actually makes me feel bad. So yes, I think that I know. My experience is based on interaction with various durability systems in various games. SO rather than go full Dragon Age 2 and trying things a lot of people hate, Obsidian decided to stick with traditional Infinity approach.
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You mean the guys who changed the ending of their 'Magnum Opus' because of popular demand? The same guys who shoehorn in cringe-inducing romances at every opportunity for fan service? And the same guys who removed the entire inventory and exploration systems from the first ME game because people criticized them?
It's irrelevant anyway. Being uncompromising is only a good thing if you're actually talented to begin with. It can be assumed that game designers at Bioware are not. Tim Cain, Josh Sawyer, Chris Avellone and company are.
Endings were dealt with after release, when dulk of damage was done already. And it's the guys who instead of fixing boring Mako exploration turned it into even more boring ****. Who turned Fallout from isometric into fps and Dragon Age into hack'n'slash. They never discussed it, never had a possibility to change it. It was a decision that was set in stone.
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After all this intense debates about crafting and how it could be implemented without alientating some part of the fanbase I recalled KOTOR2 crafting system, where only your skills mattered, which was logical.
- You are skilled in medicine - you can make advanced drugs and stims.
- Computer expert - can craft electronic devices.
- Skilled in ranged combat - can make guns and gun attachments.
So why not combine best of all worlds - BG2 artefact crafting( as Josh said, more quest, than system) and KOTOR2 crafting, where your skills allowed you to craft skill-related items.
It is logical that Stealty rogue knows how to make, for example, smoke bombs.
That still leaves controversity about "Elite Fighters could forge swords like master blacksmiths" because if medic and gun expert in sci-fi setting know how to assemble their items with sci-fi crafting station, people trained to become blacksmiths their whole life. But i'm sure that could be solved or explained one way or another. For example - veteran figthers know what weapon they need, so their skill may represent their knowledge and upon reaching blacksmith they can order them weapon. anyway, it's just a random idea.
With addition of craft cost it may serve as money sink as well. Yet KOTOR2 suffered from very simplified ingridient section and for the most part crafting were reduced to get a lot of universal Components and scrap all junk into Components.
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Sample size? More than half of those who voted in Sensuki's poll said durability belonged in PE. The load minority got it removed.
Oh, that is familiar. You'll fit right on at BSN. "Let's alienate part of our fanbase with this decision! So what someone will hate it? We know better what you players want and can live without unfaithful who will not buy anything we make."
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IMO it is wrong to portrait this decision like "now noobs will design PE!", because crafting Update was one of the most controversial of them all, that clearlly separated people over various issues(crafting-durabilty). I already presented en example, and will do so again, it's no different to changing Fallout 3 to FPS or Command & Conquer to Tib. Twilight, or Dragon Age into action slasher. Different scale but the same situation, which, in our case, was solved. IMO better solve it now and not to deal with alienating some part of the community.
It's always nice to see developers read and react to feedback. People somehow forget that Obsidian told us that Kickstarter allowed them more interaction with fandom. I can say that I was banned several times(and gained numerous warnings) on BSN in some discussions about controversial game concepts simply due to "We know better what you want" attitude)
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As long as durability is no longer there, I can even live with Dragon Age Origins or Skyrim crafting. in other words:
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* Removing durability as a mechanic on items.
* Removing the Crafting skill (specifically).
Goddamn Codex tards.
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Apples and oranges. Dragon Age 2 and Fallout 3 were no longer recognizably traditional CRPGs. Project Eternity as described by Tim Cain and Josh Sawyer is recognizably a hardcore, traditional CRPG, but with different mechanics than some people may have expected.
Why not? Maybe it's you who can't accept "new normal" for modern
popamoletraditional RPG? Oh, the irony.... -
If Project Eternity was just released working the way Tim Cain described without anybody knowing anything about what happened behind the scenes, you'd just have accepted it as is without raising too many questions. Because that would be the "new normal".
Really? Dragon Age 2, Tiberium Twilight and Fallout 3 surely were accepted as a "new normal" by the masses.
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You're comparing apples and oranges. This is an entirely different game and my suggestion was for a universal implementation of item repair, not a one off.
I see the very idea of durability and equipment maintenance as inherently bad in Infinity-like RPG. No matter how cheap and abdurant "repair kit"-type items would be. In Fallout, they served as universal repair, if PE will feature, something like Hammer item from TES for universal item repair, then still it will be an additional way to annoy the player.
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My experience has tought me that your experiecne is wrong.
Exceptions prove the rule. Including your rule that if you hate something on principle you will ALWAYS hate it in every instance.
People change. Tastes change. Perceptions change. Even preconceptions can change.
You say you hate something on principle - but why does a person hate something on principle? For lack of prior positive experience.
I never said I ALWAYS hate some principle everywhere. I said I hate it in RPGs.
Jagged Alliance - tactical strategy with minor RPG elements. Arcanum, New Vegas and upcoming PE - RPG. I like to see basic human body needs in survival game, but that doesn't mean I would be happy to see them in role-playing or racing game.
I KNOW I cannot see durability in Infinity-like RPG in a positive way, regardless of implementation. For example - you hate time limits, and in the next update Obsidian states that Project Eternity will have a time limit. That is enough for you to know that you would not like it. No matter how it will be implemented it is the same time limit. Remember how Bethesda said, "Fallout will be first person shooter now, you would all like it" - and to this day a lot of people consider that Fallout 3 is just an accident, just like Master of Orion 3, Star Control 3 or Duke Nukem Forever. It's not a matter of positive experience, it's just some aspect that you can't accept in any form.
But since you DO accept durability in JA2 that analogy doesn't work since you will have 'fish' in certain foods, so it can't be the ingredient you hate. And the games you list are so different that you cannot compare them, Diablo and Fallout are nothing alike for instance, so not sure why you would differentiate JA from them.It works in tactical strategy, not RPG. Diablo, Arcanum and Fallout 3, and New Vegas durability system are basically identical.
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Yet you acknowledge one game already where you didn't hate it? If it was a system of durability you had already tried your analogy would work but it isn't. A better analogy would be to say you don't like chinese meals and so won't even try one you haven't tried before.
I expected it to be in JA2, because it is a game with A LOT of micromanagement and noncombat activities. My analogy is with Fallout, Arcanum, Dialbo 2 etc.
Better analogy will be to say that if I hate fish and seafood, I won't even try salad with even one such ingridient.
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Just to be clear from Tim Cain's post" "Items have lots of units of durability, and they do not suffer any negative effects until those units are completely gone." So it will likely be at 25%, when the item is shown as "worn" status, that one might start getting concerned.
I have no horse in this race.
It's not a matter of how much durability items have or cost of repair. The problem is that durability exist.
Update #58: Crafting with Tim Cain!
in Pillars of Eternity: Announcements & News
Posted
Initial claim was that Durability will add to the gameplay.
When debating any issue, there is an implicit burden of proof on the person asserting a claim. "If this responsibility or burden of proof is shifted to a critic, the fallacy of appealing to ignorance is committed"
And please, no cheap demagogy,
"At first, they took our durability, then, they'll take our inventory! Adn then our Party, our children and our wives! STAHP!"
It is ironic that you set DA2 as example. Because BioWare acted exactly like durability apologists wanted - "Ignore all feedback, stick with that idea of hack'n'slash interactive movie! they are just a vocal minority!"