Tartantyco
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Posts posted by Tartantyco
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But if your frontline tank got knocked out once and then got hit by one trap, you're at 50% health and you *will* rest. Every time--no choice and no debate, because going into combat like that is just tactically unsound. Same thing if two people got knocked out and then you didn't have the mechanics to undo that trap and had to trigger it--then you rest, every time, because the injury system doesn't have enough gradience and doesn't allow meaningful choice once you hit two injuries.
First of all, two injuries is a big thing. It's not something you just pick up casually strolling through the world. It means you've been through some tough fights, or that you weren't paying attention and walked into a some traps. In that case, you rest.
Secondly, you can still keep going with two injuries on your frontline tank. Health is not a very important stat for the tank, it's defenses like deflection that matter for them. My tanks barely take any damage in any encounter, and on the rare occasion that they get injured, as long as it doesn't affect their defensive capabilities, it's not a big deal.
Thirdly, it's usually everybody else other than the tanks who get injured, and you have more options as to how you use them to avoid incoming damage in future encounters(For me it's my Barbarian and Wizard that end up with injuries. I just change my tactics when that happens.).
Fourthly, you really shouldn't be in a situation where you routinely keep going with two or three injuries on a character. It should be a situation you find yourself in if you're playing the hardest difficulty the hardest way, or if you've severely misplayed the game.
Your argument is still based on the idea that injuries should be common. They shouldn't. You shouldn't be in a situation where you routinely have characters running around with two or three injuries. You should rest before that point. As it stands right now, one injury is rarely game-stopping. Two injuries are manageable if they don't affect critical stats, but you should rest if possible. Three injuries is where you need to rest right now unless something prohibits you from doing so.
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Why didn't they just keep it as the camping supplies thing and just not litter them everywhere? Like cool abilities are still per encounter and it is wounds and empower you have to worry about now. Maybe make resting free on story mode or whatever.
Probably because it's not a very good game mechanic. It's just an entirely segregated resource that exists for a single purpose. Even without considering the injury system, the changes to the food system, incorporating existing and underused resources to have multiple uses, is a substantial improvement.
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1) You and I have a disagreement about the severity of the injury mechanic. That's okay. We don't have to insult each other over that.
2) Yes, you're exactly right--the whole point of the injury system is to control when you rest. At -50% health, that is 2 injuries, there is no "weighing the risk" to consider. At -50% health, *everybody is fragile* and you *should rest*. EVERY TIME. There is no meaningful "weighing". There is no meaningful "choice". At -50% healht, rest. End of story. That's not a choice, that's a hard push to take a specific action. "Oh, I'm half dead? I should should rest just in case I have a bad roll and something outside my control happens." That sort of thing--because half-dead makes you fragile regardless of what your character class is, *especially* considering that two more injuries *makes you dead* regardless of your character class.
There is no ability to "take more" or "be less fragile" with injuries. Four injuries and your dead, regardless of who you are, what your class is, or what your stats are. If you have two injuries, you're halfway to dead--you're fragile, period, because of the way injuries work. Everybody is equally vulnerable to injuries and everybody is equally fragile regarding injuries.
It is a meaningful choice once we have meals that give more substantial rest bonuses, and we already have inn bonuses. If you power up your party with rest bonuses, you're not going to rest and throw away those just because one of your characters got an injury. Or maybe you have to rest because the one that got an injury is a frontline tank who's now walking around with a serious deflection penalty. Or you may not want to rest simply because you don't want to waste meals or ingredients for meals just because your caster got a boo boo.
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Actually, it’s completely the other way around. The better at game you are, the less your opinion on how easy injury effects are matters. I mean, if you aren’t knocked out you don’t get penalties so it doesn’t really matter to you how severe penalties are. They might as well not exist ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
In general, the problem with injury systems is the fact that they penalize those who are already bad (for some values of the word) while having limited or no effect on masters of the game.
I honestly believe you people are actually making this argument. Seriously, play on Story Mode or stop playing all together.
I honestly believe you are completely misinterpreting what I'm saying. Playing on Story Mode will not make the deleterious effects of injuries go away. It will not solve the problem of injuries effects being to severe; it will merely make the game easier, and as I am not complaining about the games difficulty *that won't matter*.
Except the effects of the injuries aren't too severe. You can easily keep going with one or two injuries on a character. Most encounters shouldn't do too much damage to your characters, and if someone's particularly fragile as a consequence of injury, you need to act accordingly. Move them to the rear, have them target weaker enemies, etc.
But here's the big one, and stay with me here, you're supposed to rest when you get injured. The entire purpose of the system is to incentivize you to rest when you've taken an injury. Deciding whether to rest or keep going is supposed to be a decision where you have to weigh the risks.
The injury system is behaving as it should. If you get injured, you should try to rest. If you can't or don't want to rest, you simply have to adjust your tactics accordingly. This is where stuff like challenge, and varied gameplay, and gameplay longevity, and all that other stuff comes from.
May i ask if all injury works the same now? Which is -25% health. In PoE there's bruised ribs, concussion, frostbite, severe burn. etc. i'd like that injury system better.
You get an injury and -25% health per injury. The injury depends on what damage knocked you out(A cold spell=Frostbite, Blunt weapon=Broken bones, etc.).
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Actually, it’s completely the other way around. The better at game you are, the less your opinion on how easy injury effects are matters. I mean, if you aren’t knocked out you don’t get penalties so it doesn’t really matter to you how severe penalties are. They might as well not exist ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
In general, the problem with injury systems is the fact that they penalize those who are already bad (for some values of the word) while having limited or no effect on masters of the game.
I honestly believe you people are actually making this argument. Seriously, play on Story Mode or stop playing all together.
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Perhaps it's time for... a new computer?
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Is resting outside of towns supposed to heal injuries? The only way i've been able to heal them is by going back to the town and resting there. Food doesn't heal them either, unless i'm not using the right foods on my injured characters.
In the resting screen, you need to put food in the slot near the character portait of any party member that is injured.
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I also rested when I had to, got through it with only the food at the beginning, successfully beat all the combat encounters, got past the traps in the temple, etc. I had to rest a few encounters when my tactics went bad, etc.
Look, I didn't **** up my whole way through the game and I didn't claw my eyes out with frustration at how ****ty the whole thing was, either. You seem to have this idea that I'm bitching and whining because it's hard. I'm not. I'm not complaining because the games difficult. I'm complaining about the *effects of a gameplay mechanic*.
I'm not complaining because I got knocked out to much, I'm complaining because the effects of injuries from the times I *did* get knocked out where too severe and I've outlined why I think so. Your conflating "complaining about getting knocked out" with "complaning about the effects of getting knocked out".
So, the injury system is not too brutal. Copy that.
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I think removing the grimoire spell learning is good. It puts more focus on having and cycling between several grimoires, and makes the grimoires themselves more valuable. In PoE1, I'd usually just have one grimoire, put all my spells in it, and occasionally switch the spells around. In Deadfire, I actually hang on to other grimoires and switch them mid-combat to get this or that spell.
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I don't understand why your copping such a goddamn attitude, calling me a "demagogue" and accusing me "whining and bitching". This is a *beta discussion forum* where your *supposed* to put forward your feedback about what you feel works and why. If you don't want criticism about the beta, go somewhere else.
I think the problem is that your argument seems to be based on you not being very good at the game, or even average. I've played through the Beta on Classic and Veteran without having any severe issues with injuries. I rested when I had to, and I got through it with only the food I had at the beginning and picked up along the way. If I had purchased food, it would have been a complete non-issue.
I'm not min-maxing. I'm not playing very tactically. I'm playing it very straight-forward. Still it looks like I'll have to go to POTD for any real challenge. So when people are complaining about the injury system, I can't help but completely discard their opinions and arguments because I see no reason why they should be having any of these issues beyond their own lack of ability.
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Oh, so we're using a placeholder ship then? I suppose that makes sense. Can't wait to jump into the beta, my computer is in repair until the 22nd at least.
I'd like to know what percentage of the entire world map this beta map covers.
We don't know if it'll exist in the full game. I'd imagine it covers a pretty small percentage of the complete map.
We know. It's a side quest area, like Dyrford in PoEt 1.
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I'd like to know what percentage of the entire world map this beta map covers.
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But the cooking aspect will not make use of other consumables that remain unused in the game. It's about trying to avoid the issue where you just have a ton of stuff that you have no use for and consequently end up a gabillionaire.
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@Vladmorik This only becomes a problem because of your assumption that it shouldn't be harder to keep an injured party member alive.
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I really like the changes made to the new rest system, as it removes an isolated economic ecosystem from the game and instead makes use of previously under- or unused resources. However, I think it is a little sparse and could do with some additions. Right now, you simply assign a single food resource to your individual part members, and this provides them with a stat bonus and cures any injuries. What I would like to see is:
Increase the number of slots
It's currently just one slot per party member, but I think this should be increased to something like three or five.
Make more consumables usable
You can currently just use food for the rest stage. I think making things like potions and certain ingredients usable would make them more valuable and relevant.
Give different bonuses based on the quantity and combination of consumables
Instead of the current "You ate a fish, get +5 health".
You could then make it so that the more slots you fill, the more powerful the bonuses are. This would make it so you'd have to consider the option of having strong bonuses or having enough remaining resources to heal injuries if your party members get knocked out. It would also let players make use of all the things they may not otherwise use. There's no shortage of potions that I simply sell for money because their effects aren't relevant or too situational. If I could get other or weaker effects over an extended period by using them while resting, that would be helpful. Finally, it also acts as a money sink. If you want to keep your party well-buffed, you need to put a lot of money into these resources.
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Apparently, it's been released now for those who pre-ordered. What's your impressions?
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No, but they could have the delivered the kind of game the IE games were.
And they did.
Man, what an echo chamber of whine this forum has become since everyone who was happy with the end product went away to play the game...
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tl;dr: "Wish there were an option to remove consequences because I suck."
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I'd just like to point out that the actual substance in the Slicken spell drops from the sky, so it would hit flying units, as well.
And make them... slip and fall?
Have you ever seen bird coated in oil fly?
Edit: Eldoth overload.
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Numbers are not the issue, the issue is that melee enemies are not a danger. In my case Eder tanks as many as he can and my monk waits to see who passes by and tanks those. It still makes the combat super easy because Eder can easily tank 3-4 and my Monk can tank 1-2 which is usually all the melee that is thrown at you.
We seem to be talking at cross-purposes here. I'm discussing specifically about the issue of one character aggroing everything. What you're talking about is also an issue, but it is a different topic.
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I'd just like to point out that the actual substance in the Slicken spell drops from the sky, so it would hit flying units, as well.
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I have yet to have a tough fight that needed more than Eder to tank 4 melee and secondary melee to tank up 2 more. Some enemies are also ranged while others teleport and ignore tanks anyways.
My Eder has 4 engagement limit and the secondary melee easily takes care of what is left. This is not a solution.A simple fix for the "lone tank" syndrome, and one I've suggested before, is to add penalties for each enemy attacking a character that exceeds their engagement limit. So, if your tank has an engagement limit of 3, he'll get penalized if 4 enemies are attacking him, and it will increase exponentially as more enemies attack. This would be in addition to the current flanking system.
Why should your tanks not be able to deal with the amount of enemies that their engagement limit allows them? I mean, if your tank has an engagement limit of 5, then him being in combat with 5 enemies shouldn't be an issue. The issue with tanks is not them tanking a lot of enemies, it's them tanking all the enemies. It also makes mob enemies more dangerous.
...And that's not a problem. Go back to page 11 or 12, where Hiro posted a video where his lone tank is taking on 6 enemies at once. Those are the problem areas. If your tank has an engagement limit of 4 and there are 4 enemies total, him standing alone and taking them all on is not an issue. He'll get the flanked penalty, but that's about it. Lone tanks usually just means the party has to rest more often, nonetheless.
Tanks tanking is not a problem.
Injury System is way too brutal
in Backer Beta Discussion
Posted
I wouldn't say it's more challenging. Just more dynamic.