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HumanFlesh+5

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Posts posted by HumanFlesh+5

  1. Steam has things like achievements and a single unified client through which through which they can manage their downloads, friends' list and stuff. People seem to value it for that though I personally will be going for the GOG version.

     

    what about mod support. will you have disadvantages using GOG because you haven't a platform like steam for distribution?

  2. We support translators in being lazy ... i want them to solve the problem of translating, not just to avoid it by using english terms. that's lazy, unimaginative and just a copy of the english version. translation is more nach just recycling stories, they MUST reinterpret them completely. Otherwise their job is unfinished. Nobody needs a german translation then. Just stay with the original.

    • Like 1
  3. The problem with ASOIAF is that the future books (and Dance of Dragons already) will only be printed in the new German translation. So - dramatically spoken - I can burn my exsting 8 novels with a nearly perfect translation and buy every novel again in the new, bad translation to have a complete edition in my bookshelf in the end (since not only the translation but also the cover and size has changed). That's annoying. :/

    Yeah, same problem here. As I found out, I switched to english. Not because I'm very eager to read it in english, but because I can't stand the new translation.

     

    just one question: what's the difference between the new and the old translation of ASOIAF?

  4. Schmutziger Harry?... Klingt irgendwie nicht richtig ;)

     

    The thing is, why does it sound "right" just because it is in a foreign language?

    The names are equally silly in english as they are in any other language. But it seems only when we translate the names that the ridiculousness hits us.

    In the above example, it sounds silly because the words are translated but not the meaning. Hard to explain, but it means dirty as in not clean. Not as somebody who fights dirty (as in not by the book). Just a simple example to illustrate the dangers of translations, well meant or not.

     

    But in German you can say "schmutzig" for unfair. There is also the expression "schmutzige Tricks" for "playing unfair".

  5. i also know this kind of phenomenon from myself. And thats the thing that makes me sad, because i seems to be normal. And because most of the translaters even try to translate things, because they are afraid that it may seem odd, but by not doing this there will never be a sensitive german translation of names.

    If fantasy hadn't been considered being childish and pulp for such a long time in germany, and if the literaric german elite had treated it properly, it could have been different today. But they left this field to the nerds and that's the result.

     

    Good point! But they really made a good start with the translation of Lord of the Rings ...

    And Germany's Nibelungenlied is a very old example for fantasy, so fantasy has somekind of tradition in Germany. It only has been forgotten.

  6. If someone needs a good example how a BAD translation can be done, just look at the newest German book versions of A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin. The old versions stick to the fitting English proper names for characters and locations e.g. "John Snow" (character) and "King's Landing" (city). while the new versions translate even the proper names into German with no regard to the meaning of the English names. So in the new versions "John Snow" is translated into "John Schnee" which is indeed a literal translation but doesn't take into account that the name "Snow" is not a real surname but the label for a bastard child. "King's Landing" is translated to "Königsmund" which means (literally translated) "king's mouth". I don't know why it is translated like that but it's complete nonsense since the name "King's Landing" has the acutal meaning that a long time ago the first king of Westeros landed at this location with his fleet and went ashore here. The actual translation of ASOIAF is a real immersion killer..... :banghead:

     

    So please, Obsidian, don't translate proper names of characters and locations and also items/equipment in German! :yes:

     

    I know this is strongly some kind a matter of taste. But i don't understand what is wrong with Königsmund instead of King's Landing, since its a metaphoric (and in my opinion quite creative) word vor bay or shore. Like you would say Felsnase for some kind of rocky ledge (?). And its named King, because it's the kind of Shore the king arrived at. And about John Snow, I have not theread books, I only watched the series, but how does rather "snow" than "Schnee" take into account that he's a bastard?

     

    I know it's always a radical step to translate names, but i would like to have the same experience like an english nativespeaker that experiences all english words as some kind of familiar, because they are in his mother tongue. The fact that i can understand english quite well doesn't let me experience the world like its something homelike. I don't consider the culture of an game not to be english but to be human. So the english language in the original seems to represent our culture as mankind so that we can find our place in these crazy fantasy worlds much easier. Therefore i find the german language for german players (even though the understand english) better.

     

    It's really a matter of taste and we could argue hours about this topic without coming to a conclusion. But i don't want to convince you but i hope you can at least understand my way of thinking. Because if the english words will not be translated completly than there will be no way for me to experience the game as i wished. the other way around you can still play the english original.

     

    Ich habe fertig! ^^ ... for goodness sake my english is getting worse and worse.

     

    I r

    Perhaps - and I am only guessing here - it's not only a matter of taste but also a matter of your foreign language competence and usage. In my experience a lot of poeple in my generation (born in and after the 80s) and with a comparable educational background are quite used to the English language, from TV series, games, websites, advertising and so on, espcially in some specific topics like fantasy. So the English proper names don't "sound" that unfamiliar, it's the other way round. Personally, I can't even think of serious sounding proper names for fantasy in German since I am so used to English names in that kind of topic. Sometimes I even catch myself in thinking in English than in German. I've talked about things like that a lot to my friends and they told me that this is not only true for my own person but that they have made comparable experiences themselves. ;)

     

    i also know this kind of phenomenon from myself. And thats the thing that makes me sad, because i seems to be normal. And because most of the translaters even try to translate things, because they are afraid that it may seem odd, but by not doing this there will never be a sensitive german translation of names.

    • Like 1
  7. Generally, you're right, but only if the English proper names don't have hidden or obvious meanings which can't be translated into other languages that easily. For bad examples take a look at my previous post. ;)

     

    Well, I can't really relate to the King's Landing - Königsmund problem, as I don't know the lore, but I researched the other example you gave and I'm afraid I must disagree. The surname Snow is one of the ways to identlfy bastad children in Westeros. The others are Stone, Rivers, Waters, Pyke, Hill, Flowers, Storm and Sand and all of them are derived from or simply are common nouns. This means, that from the localization point of view, they may and imo should be translated into the target language, on condition that the usage is consistent. So, all bastard children in The North should be called [first name] Schnee in the German version of the books. English is not a language used in Westeros so why would you want to use it in the German translation? It's actually very similar to what I described above: Westeros has it's Common Tonge: the Andal language and Martin is using English to represent it. Otherwise, he would have to invent a new language and write most dialogues in his book in it, which would in turn force the readers to learn the language. That would be a bit hardcore ;)

     

    EDIT: Corrected The North, thanks Althernai

    Yes, it' indeed the point that Martin uses English as the commomn language in the book so IT IS in fact the language used in Westeros even if it's called different for literaric reasons. So every meaning and name is chosen carefully by Martin as it is understood in English. Not everything which literarily has the same expression in two languages has also the same intention or subliminal meaning what makes it so difficult to transplate proper names. Example: you can't translate "Dirty Harry" to German, it's impossible to find an expression in German which transports the same subliminal AND obvious meaning AND doesn't sound ridiculous to German speakers. So I think you must be very carefully by translating proper names. There are some quite good examples, like the old translation of Lord of the Rings into German, and there are some bad examples, like the new translation of ASOIAF into German. ;)

     

    But i don't understand what is wrong with Königsmund instead of King's Landing, since its a metaphoric (and in my opinion quite creative) word vor bay or shore.

    "Mund" (= mouth) should be an equivalent for estuary, and that's quite the opposite to what was intentionally meant. An estuary is the final stage of a river, the landing stands for the beginning of something new. It's also a synonym in the book because it was the beginning of a new era for Westeros. I can't see that intention behind Königsmund, because there was no releation between the Targaryens and the sea. This might look like nitpicking, but it's a indicator of what can be said against this whole name translation process.

     

    AH! It will be fun to listen to the voice actors pronouncing names in an italian accent :grin:

    No offence, but usually is rather amusing :blush:

    I remember a 24 epsiode where Jack Bauer spoke german. As a native speaker I really could not understand what he said. It sounded like a gurgeling of several phonems. Lucky me there have been english subtitles. ;)

     

    On the one hand you are right (except that Snow is in the North, not the Vale). But on the other hand, I tried thinking about this in Russian and it just doesn't work. Jon Snow left alone would be Джон Сноу which makes it obvious that this is translated from English, but sounds OK. Jon Snow translated would be Джон Снег (Jon Sneg) which both looks and sounds awful.

    I'd say the mixture of the original english "John" with german "Schnee" is what makes the whole german translation of ASoIaF / GoT horrible, because it is a arbitrary mix up of languages. If they would have been consequent about this, they had to translate it to Johann Schnee or Hannes Schnee, and I think that's nothing a german reader would take for serious. The whole book cast consists of altered spellings of english names. But instead of adapting them as well they only took the most obvious words and translated them. That's ridiculous. For the Lord of the Rings original german translator Margaret Carroux tried to catch up the essence of the name Shelop by using an old german word for spider and giving it a female looking shape (= Kankra). That seems to be way to much thinking for the new translator of ASoIaF / GoT or a result of cheap, excessive outsourcing methods in the print media biz.

     

    The thing about Johann Schnee is, that it only sounds odd because in the times of Peaches, Justin and Mike we aren't used to native german names anymore. And that's a really sad thought.

     

    My grandfather's name also is Johann and i think it is a very honest name. It's traditional, without any pseudo fantasy coolness effect. And Fantasyworlds need tradition to make them believable.

    • Like 1
  8. If someone needs a good example how a BAD translation can be done, just look at the newest German book versions of A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin. The old versions stick to the fitting English proper names for characters and locations e.g. "John Snow" (character) and "King's Landing" (city). while the new versions translate even the proper names into German with no regard to the meaning of the English names. So in the new versions "John Snow" is translated into "John Schnee" which is indeed a literal translation but doesn't take into account that the name "Snow" is not a real surname but the label for a bastard child. "King's Landing" is translated to "Königsmund" which means (literally translated) "king's mouth". I don't know why it is translated like that but it's complete nonsense since the name "King's Landing" has the acutal meaning that a long time ago the first king of Westeros landed at this location with his fleet and went ashore here. The actual translation of ASOIAF is a real immersion killer..... :banghead:

     

    So please, Obsidian, don't translate proper names of characters and locations and also items/equipment in German! :yes:

     

    I know this is strongly some kind a matter of taste. But i don't understand what is wrong with Königsmund instead of King's Landing, since its a metaphoric (and in my opinion quite creative) word vor bay or shore. Like you would say Felsnase for some kind of rocky ledge (?). And its named King, because it's the kind of Shore the king arrived at. And about John Snow, I have not theread books, I only watched the series, but how does rather "snow" than "Schnee" take into account that he's a bastard?

     

    I know it's always a radical step to translate names, but i would like to have the same experience like an english nativespeaker that experiences all english words as some kind of familiar, because they are in his mother tongue. The fact that i can understand english quite well doesn't let me experience the world like its something homelike. I don't consider the culture of an game not to be english but to be human. So the english language in the original seems to represent our culture as mankind so that we can find our place in these crazy fantasy worlds much easier. Therefore i find the german language for german players (even though the understand english) better.

     

    It's really a matter of taste and we could argue hours about this topic without coming to a conclusion. But i don't want to convince you but i hope you can at least understand my way of thinking. Because if the english words will not be translated completly than there will be no way for me to experience the game as i wished. the other way around you can still play the english original.

     

    Ich habe fertig! ^^ ... for goodness sake my english is getting worse and worse.

     

    I r

    • Like 2
  9. Hey to everyone out there. At first a big THANK YOU for the decision to offer a German Version, I really appreciate this! This is a thread concerning the German translation, thus I think it will only concern German speaking people. That is why i will continue in German (the other reason: it is a lot easier for me).

     

    Ich weiß nicht wie viele deutschsprechende Menschen sich hier herumtreiben, aber ich versuche einfach mal mein Glück. Obwohl ich Englisch recht gut verstehe und die originale Version des Spiels wahrscheinlich kein Problem für mich darstellen wird, freue ich mich wirklich sehr darüber, dass es eine Möglichkeit geben wird das Spiel in Deutsch zu spielen. So sehr wie ich mich darüber freue, so sehr befürchte ich auch, dass in dieser Hinsicht die (meiner Meinung nach) falschen Schwerpunkte gesetzt werden könnten. Mal abgesehen davon keinen Abkürzungsmüll zu bauen wie damals bei Oblivion, bangt es mir vielmehr davor, dass etwas wie bei NWN2 passieren könnte:

     

    Betroffen ist in diesem Fall die Sprachausgabe (falls es eine geben sollte). Bitte benutzt für alle eindeutig selbst erdachten Eigennamen eine deutsche Aussprache. Dies würde sich viel harmonischer in das gesamte Klangbild der Übersetzung einfügen und nicht wie Anglizismus-Dissonanzen im deutschen Sprachgefüge hängen. Auch die Aussprache der Namen mancher NPCs blieben englisch, obwohl sie keinen eindeutigen Bezug zur englischsprachigen Kultur hatten. Beispiel: Casavir (eher lateinisch: vir = Mann) oder Faerun (klar ein Name der einer erdachten Kultur entspringt). Die Gründe die Aussprache einzudeutschen sind dafür meiner Meinung nach:

     

    1. Das Gesprochene wirkt in sich stimmiger bzw. nativer und legt seine Pseudocoolness ab (die find ich schon seit ich 16 war nicht mehr toll)

    2. Der englische Klang in deutscher Sprache bewirkt immer eine Art Verschleierung, während die deutsche Ausspreche direkter und konsequenter klingt.

    3. Wer die englischen Begriffe/Ausspreche lieber mag (was ich absolut verstehen kann) der kann auch die originale Version spielen, deswegen ist in dieser Hinsicht trollen unsinnig.

     

    Was mir auch wichtig ist, ist die konsequenter Übersetzung aller englischen Wörter in Ortsnamen, bzw. bestimmter Organisationen. Ich weiß, dass sind Eigennamen, aber wer die englisch haben will, der spielt es einfach auf englisch. Elfische Namen oder ähnliches sind davon natürlich nicht betroffen, es geht mir nur um englische Wörter.

     

    Ich gehe davon aus, dass ich nicht allzu viele Befürworter finden werde. Aber es ist kein Grund zu flamen, ich denke mit meiner Meinung kann ich es mal probieren. :-)

    • Like 2
  10. i think thats not right, because on obsidians page (on the bottom page) there is a FAQ which answers the question "Are my PayPal donations applied to the Kickstarter funding goal?" with the following:

     

    "Unfortunately no. PayPal donations do NOT count toward our Kickstarter funding goals. PayPal donations will still receive the appropriate tier rewards however. Kickstarter is our primary method for funding the project; if it doesn't hit it's funding goal, even if we have PayPal donations that would bring it over the goal, the Kickstarter will still go unfunded."

     

    http://eternity.obsidian.net/

  11. has there anything been said about diplomacy oder something like speech skill? because concerning this obsidian's statement about "non combat abilities" was alarmingly closemouthed (can you actually say said?) ...

     

    edit: i know they said that it will be possible to avoid fights with talking, but i'm thinking about getting special quests only by clever talking, using speech for better merchant prices, getting more lore information or convincing npc's to help you in your quest.

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