Athrogate
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Posts posted by Athrogate
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I also agree that the combat is a whole lot better
What I miss from e.g. BG is larger, more open wilderness maps, and random encounters. especially since there are no kill XP, random encounters would be nice as they are not so expoitable, and a few goodies and special encounters could be thrown in there.
But I'm not too far into the game yet so maybe there is something to come.
Without any randomness in encounters etc I fear the replayability will not be the same as BG (which I am also currently replaying for the nth time).I should say I prefer BG to BG2 simply for the additional optional wilderness adventuring possibilities.
It feels really great struggling to kill stuff at lvl 10 in the Kickstarter dungeon and you don't get xp. Really rewarding. Glad the combat is so tactical and challenging and just really different every encounter, that I don't care about the xp.
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Pre-bufffing was tedious and overpowered in Baldurs Gate. I'm very glad that it's gone; it basically represented a completely artificial edge for players in encounters, which in turn forced design choices that made parties without pre-buffing grossly underpowered.
Not having to stop and do a bunch of mandatory mouse clicks before encounters is an improvement in my book: you can buff in combat, and that is an actual tactical choice (as opposed to a required mechanical task.) The combat in this game *is* really tactical and challenging. Having to weigh resting against using all of the spells is a tactical choice. Positioning matters. Weapon choice matters.
If you just want to play Baldurs Gate over and over again, it's still around. I'm really enjoying this game, and it's getting rave reviews from users and critics for good reasons.
If you find PoE tactically challenging, then good for you.
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I do agree with you about large portion of your post: the combat in POE is much less dynamic and I don't like it. This is mostly because of the ****ty engagement system .
I also miss the epic battles of BG 2, chaotic commands, resist fear then pierce magic/breach/lower resistance/remove magick and just then you could attack effectively with all sorts of different strategies...
Alas the combat in this game is still fun. Not amazing but fun...
To be honest, I turned it off, and I slept with unlimited camp supplies. It did not help that much. The short range of spells, no precast before combat... You know, I had alot of fun toasting ogres with fireballs in BG. Or stealthing in with my rogue and one shotting the mage before combat began. I know this is not BG and it's pointless to say that we need BG, but this is so far from it. They basically went in the opposite direction.
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If anyone feels that the combat system is the best thing ever, then I'm happy for you. I just need to let my voice be heard, cause I was hardly enjoying combat in PoE:(
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When I backed this game $140 it was because I was being told it would be like the old IE games. I was sold.
PoE is very similar in its design of areas, zones, quests and so on. I think Obsidian did a great job here. I'd like to point out that I think the music is outstanding in this game. Obsidian basically did exactly what they told me they would do. That is, for the things mentioned.
Somehow, at one point in time, someone obviously decided to break that promise. Instead of a similar experience to the old IE games, especially BG1+2 - Obsidian decides to totally redo combat. Let's just look at what BG1+2 combat was:
Quite challenging tactical combat. The combat felt such a way that if you used certain spells you had a huge tactical advantage. For instance "blind" early one really helped with some nasty ogres in the beginning.
Later on, combat was still very tactical, with prebuffing + summoning monsters and then engagement. It is to this date, some of the most fun fights I've had. Combat involved moving characters around alot, tanking, moving mages out, letting your rogue stand behind and get some backstabs etc. All this while the enemy did lots of nasty stuff. What I remember the most is that certain enemies could only be killed with certain spells and you needed solid strategies for alot of the encounters. Knowledge was power.
I ask you Obsidian; Why did you change every aspect of combat that I liked about the old IE D&D games?
Instead of trying to make a similar system, you have made Pillars of Restraints. Camp supply restraint, prebuffing restraint, movement in combat retraint, feeling powerful restraint. The thing is, I feel that PoE is alot less tactical. It's just the same, every level. I don't even understand what the supply limit is for. Should I keep myself in check and not go and restock? Why can we not summon monsters and buff our team before combat? It feels as everything is done in order to meet a system which is only half done. You could remove all these redundant and annoying factors and instead make the encounters more challenging. What do I need to cast, how can I win this etc. Right now, it's a macro game. How long can I go before my HP is 1 and I need to restock my camp supplies. I'm very sad and serious when I say: it's not very fun. At least not compared to 10 + year old games based on D&D.
My hope is that more than me feels dissapointed by the combat system and that we will see some drastic changes in future / next games. I mean, I loved the world, just not the combat.
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I'm considering opting for hardest difficulty, while setting supplies to unlimited and/or maybe spells unlimited. Perhaps that will recreate some of the IE feeling I'm missing?
I am not looking for an ironman challenge
The game should be fun, not grueling. Tedium and timesinks are the exact opposite of fun.I installed the IE mod, which removes the stupid engagement system and at the same time opens console commands. You can just press console and type "rest" then if you want to rest. Currently playing on path of the damned with unlimited rest. It's pretty damn close to the old BG feeling now. Every fight is very tactical, almost too difficult, but at least I use every spell I can and can position like old times. It's WAY better than vanilla with engagement and rest limitations.
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Mister 9k posts wrote: "Oh, and no, the solution is not to make combat harder. If you made combat much harder and then allowed unlimited resting, it would become far too difficult to play without resting. In that case you might as well also make health heal instantly after each battle, just like endurance. And you might as well make every single spell per-encounter. Of course, when you do that, you diminish the fun of the combat, because now you just blast through your most powerful spells each battle every time in the same way, and you just go in gung ho not caring about damage as long as it doesn't kill you. Ironically, POE is already a bit like that compared to IE games, because endurance resets and some abilities are indeed per-encounter. I don't know about you, but I don't want to play a game where I am supposed to be going deeper into a dangerous dungeon but there is zero concept of attrition and I am always as fresh and prepared as I just got out of bed. I want fun situations like running low on camping supplies and spells and having to devise different tactical solutions to the last remaining fight.
The system works best when you're not trekking back to town every 3 fights to get more supplies, obviously. If you choose to use such an inconvenient solution, that is not the problem of the feature. It would be like saying "it sucks that I can't save during combat, now I have to run away from enemies after killing some of them in order to save, and that takes way too long."
1) Stop expanding it to "save during combat" or other ignorant comparisons.
2) It does not make the game more challenging, stop, just stop saying it. It's extremely annoying listening to you talk about a mechanic outside of combat that affects combat and therefore makes combat harder.
2) We are supposed to not go back to town, cause then we are making it easier? Oh, sorry I should have read that memo about trying to play with as few supplies as possible.
4) On that note, it's a self inflicted restraint where it's up to the player if he/she wants to restock. Thus, AGAIN, IT HAS ZERO IMPACT on the challenge of combat. I wonder, why did we not need this in the old IE games? There, they either had a no-rest scenario (because you were in a place where it was not natural to sleep) or you could sleep.
3) I'm quite sure you will continue to argue for your wonderful camp supplies for years to come. Won't change any of the facts stated in this thread, which are all correct.
4) Why don't you use only shields in half the dungeons? It would be more difficult then I think, or only use weapons in some encounters. Let's make lots of rules to make combat more challenging. Oh wait, it's the same as the supplies, it's just a cheap solution since they were not able to make combat dynamic and challenging enough as it is.
5) What is the most memorable challenges in old IE games? Lich fights, dragon fights etc. Not "oh do you remember when we had to fight 8 fights in a row without sleeping?". If that is what you want in a game like this, go ahead, but respect other opinions, WHO ARE NOT WRONG. Supplies does NOTHING for difficulty.
IF we had respawns in dungeons, then supply camps would actually matter. I would not argue that it's a good solution, but at least it would matter. As it is now, it's one thing, and one thing only: A TIME SINK.
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By saying stuff like "you should try something more easy" "that zone is not meant for you then" and so on, you COMPLETELY MISS THE POINT!! It's not making the game more challenging, it's not making any difference whatsoever, it's putting a macro restriction on a dungeon / zone whatever, which clearly can be bypassed by going back and restocking, hence the word arbitrary. Don't try to validate the system with any arguement you can find. Ask yourself this: Why do we need another layer of resource management? Because combat is not hard enough / The entire endurance system. Well, sorry to say it, but if you create a combat system that requires another system for it to work, then it's not a good system. Especially not when you at any given time can go back and get fresh camp supplies.
As for realism, people who adventure stay on the road for months without having to resupply every third night. I really hope Obsidian can find a way to make their combat system work without this supply limit.
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Deleted my post. All I wanted to say was: I agree with Mansen: The camp supply system could have been redone. Am I meant to predict how many times I need to sleep? Do I need to predict the size of the dungeon? It feels like a cheap solution to make it harder, instead of making the combat more challenging and dynamic. And as Mansen said, I can backtrack at any time and restock. The only cost is some copper and annoyance. I hope they redo the camp supply system as they improve the combat system.
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I'm pretty happy with what I got for my 140 bucks. A game I'm passionate about, and I did not want to play the beta, as I would not want any spoilers.
What I will say, is how absolutely disgusted I am with another Kickstarter campaign, namely Hex the TCG. They gave backers uniqe permanent enhancements for life. Their completely ignorant KS-backers on their forums justify this with: "we deserve it cause we took risk". I hope Hex fails for how they abuse Kickstarter, making incentive permanent perks and not passion. The small KS community on their forums also seems to not understand how these perks will turn off new players like me (pve is competitive). I hope PoE is a huge success and I'm very happy with my 140 bucks. Let the fun begin in a few hours:)
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Found the answer myself. Thanks.
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My username on this forum you can all see, but will I get my full name in the credits? I don't mind, was just curious:)
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For which forum will this badge be applied? Will I get a badge here in October?
The game should be fun, not grueling. Tedium and timesinks are the exact opposite of fun.
Why the hype?
in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)
Posted
1) Itemization is bland. Boots of speed and obsidian lamp figure were the two most exciting items I found in my playthrough.
2) I'm sorry, but if you think this game's combat system is brilliant, then you are wrong. Try to play this game with 2 fighters, 2 rogues, 1 priest 1 mage (all custom made)on hard. You laugh, that's how easy it is. Only times you need to go back is when your hp is finally too low. So you can maybe get that "wow I made it all through the dungeon without resting" feeling. What a great feeling. Not. The rest system is a ****ing joke and if you think it's good, then you are a bad influence for people who are after a challenge. If you fought one of the dragons at the end, tell me that was hard? What strategy did you implement? Yeah, that's right. No a whole lot of strategy. It's sublte, the difference between a challenging RPG and one that is not. But by all means, tell the devs how this is great, so you can play the game while you watch TV. Or tell your GF you did an entire dungeon without resting. Such kudos.
3) Josh says no build is a crap build. Cool story. Thanks for making the most boring stat system I've ever seen. 2% more dps. Nice. 2% healing. Felt really exciting! Them percents!
4) NPCs sub par stat distribution. The only reason ever for doing a run with the premade companions is for the stories. After that, bye bye.
4) In the RPGs I enjoy, I feel ownership of my characters, I feel that they PROGRESS. Progression is key. The only ones I felt progressed a little in this game were my two rogues with their OP arbalests. My mage, sorry, I mean my CC-dude, was ok with his MUST have spells which changed the game entirely. I'll write down the few spells you need and you can forget about every other: Slicken, ice spell lvl 1, bewildering, confusion. Yep. That's it. My fighters just became a bit more tanky throughout the game. Maybe alot more, but really, they are boring. The stats they get are boring. It's not like I ever felt "oh wow now I can't wait to go hunt".
5) At least the old D&D BG1+2 forced you to actually give a **** about what monsters you were after. Immunities were needed and certain damaage types. That's right, maybe you could not even beat the content if you did not have the gear. MODERN DAY GAMING. **** gear: let every 5 year old kid on the block beat the content. It's a family game. Wuhu. Yeah, I pretty much changed zero point zero of my dmg types and gear throughout the game and won. I almost auto attacked half the game, while some certain encoutners I had to actually use some mage spells.
I love the music in this game and I think the areas and the story is quite nice. So my complaints are about the combat system, but I'm obviously fighting a war vs. people cruasde for this game's combat system.
How do they up the difficulty on Path of the Damned? More mobs, and higher stats. Just like they will do in future content. Can't change a fail system, unless you redo it. Why was BG2 so great? Well, besides the quality on story / uniqe plots / dialogue etc. it used a table top RGP system which had been fine tuned for years by fans. Let's redefine RPG combat in a game which is supposed to give old schoolers some good fun. Nice. We really needed that. Hipsters.
Go stalk the forums more, you 7-10k forum posters. Post on every god damn post, especially the moderators. Good thing you are so involved..... Let everyone know how fantastic the combat system is. How fantastic the pathing is. Happy Easter all, off on vacation here. Sadly, I won't do a replay, ever.