[How realistic is your cup of tea?]

I respectfully disagree, movies like SAW won't be as powerful with innuendos alone

Sometimes, you just have to show it to shock people, expose them with raw emotions.

 

Do yourself a favor and buy Alfred Hitch****'s "Psycho" then revisit this idea; it is possible to powerfully shock people by leaving things to the imagination.

 

Edit: That has got to be the single dumbest censoring macro ever...

 

I loled at the censoring XD

 

I agree, but I disagree with this "tool A is better than tool B" sentiments.

Both explicit expositions and innuendos are story-telling tools, some people craft better story with explicit expositions while others craft better story with innuendos. Alfred might be this master of innuendos, but that doesn't mean there are no jobs for explicit expositions.

[How realistic is your cup of tea?]

I went with Tamed Reality, no matter how unpopular the option seems.

 

Realism != grimdark. Sure OP says that "choosing Hard realism doesn't mean there will be gore, sex, etc every 60 seconds, but only when artistically needed", but these are still the examples he used in the poll to describe what he intends by realism. And that, I think, shows how mature his idea of "hard realism" really is, that other comment aside.

 

I don't want my RPGs to shy away from themes such as the atrocities of war, fanaticism, culture clashes leading to racism and bigotism, the pains of loss, sacrifice and betrayal, and how one's choices have far-reaching consequences and all that good stuff. and all that good stuff. Let's not pretend rape and genocide doesn't happen, but anything "WTF-worthy" is, I believe, unnecessary and (counter-intuitively) completely immature. More often than not, it's handled in poor taste and feels completely forced, as if the authors are looking at the player saying "Oh yeah. We went there. Deal with it." while feeling so cool and edgy.

 

Adult themes aren't necessarily about darkness and horror. The world isn't actually like that. OP's idea of hard realism is basically porn. Pure unnecessary gratification.

 

Um no, I do not equate adult themes with horror and darkness. To quote myself:

"There are wonderful things out there, but there are no sugar-coating the ugly truths either. Just like IRL."

 

Just think of it like this,

In real life, if you see kids dying, you will explicitly see kids dying right? Your life won't suddenly fade to black or something.

But how often you see kids dying? Most of the time in your life you will be surrounded by your loving friends/family/cats/etc, drinking favorite beers, playing exciting video games, travelling abroad, and experiencing many happy moments.

 

But when you see kids dying, you see kids writhing.

 

Such is the game with hard realism. Brutal, like life itself.

[How realistic is your cup of tea?]

Wow.. This isn't a question of realism. I think the expression you're looking for is: "How edgy can this game be?"

That's how sleazy marketting-agents think. They try to find what kids like and then exploit it. And kids often like

things that should appeal to those older than them. That's what's usually 'cool', or 'edgy'.

 

So, edgy has very little to do with realism or maturity, especially maturity. Those are two powerful, seperate terms

that can enhance a story. Violence, rape, child killings, are mature themes, but those things alone don't make a good story.

Anyone using those tools in a story should have a good reason to do so, and not for a casual wow-factor.

 

Do I think these violent things can be included to the story? Yes, if it serves the story, genre, and themes, sure.

 

However, if people are generally bothered that these things aren't in a game, then I say that Obsidian shouldn't include them.

That would be entirely for the wrong reasons, and it's not really important in a good story.

 

Additional question: Do I think this is a stupid poll for even having to ask this question? Yes. I feel embarrassed. Almost to the

point where I don't want any violence in this game until some of you grow up. Real people have been raped. They play games

to chill out, and to relax after a hard day at work. The word 'rape' alone is a powerful phrase to make many victims instantly

and uncontrollably feel extremely bad. I don't know any victims personally, but I've read some papers here, some articles written by victims there,

and there is no reason that this fun, fantasy strategy game needs the things mentioned in the poll here, especially the way they are formulated here..

If you are one who REALLY want to see stuff like this, I don't think Obsidian should include it, because some of you have some growing up to do.

 

"Well, you strategically kill people in this game. That's wrong too!"

 

Yes, but most of the time, games framed those kills in a way that is justified and be pondered if they truly were the most ethical option at the time. If they're not, well, those who are killed in real life aren't here anymore to complain that they find it offensive.

 

Raping people however is always wrong. And people who have been raped are still here, and they aren't threatening us not to talk about it, but that's exactly why I think we can tone it down by just not saying stuff like: "I want to see rape."

 

I'm not coming back to look at this thread. Take it for what it is. Feel free to redicule or argue against this, but this is one poll I'm not voting on.

 

Well with hard realism, I don't promote rape for the sake of rape. I don't want it to be edgy for the sake of edgy.

I simply promote the idea of a more realistic game, if your character see child killing, he will explicitly see child killing, just like IRL. If you see kids dying in real life, does your life suddenly fade to black? Well, might be if you passed out, but you get the idea.

 

In short, I don't have malicious ideas or agendas.

However I agree that not everybody will like Hard Realism, that's why I added other choices in the poll

[How realistic is your cup of tea?]

So, how socially realistic do you desire the Eternity world will be ?

Note that choosing "Hard realism" doesn't mean there will be gore, sex, etc every 60 seconds, but only when artistically needed.

 

EDIT: fixed the polls.

"Brutal Realism" is now "Hard Realism"

 

How about a mature setting without ****ing RAPE?

 

I agree, in a game that's not something most players would want to be presented with, I would think. Games are an escape medium, so I don't really want all the gritty realism and terrible things going on in the real world in a game I'm playing.

 

I am also not sure that there is an "artistic need" for rape, especially with active player involvement.

 

Oh there is. There are many literature with characters undergo great character developments after those characters witnessed or experienced a terrible horror, including rape.

 

This doesn't mean you have to rape or something, you might be a newcomer in a VERY chaotic town, and seeing people raped in back alley might set the intended mood of the city. Or it might give you a powerful reason to be a hero and kill every crime lords in the town, or anything really, it depends on your interpretation.

[Which game hook brought you to Project Eternity and interests you the most?]

KOTOR 2 and New Vegas

 

I was really caught off guard by Kreia, and the idea of introducing grey morality in Star Wars universe? Yes please

 

And New Vegas is amazing! It really is a clash of civilizations, with democracy, technological autocracy, classical autocracy, anarchy in one big melting pot.

 

...or you can just destroy them all.

 

I rarely find these kinds of story in a video game

[How realistic is your cup of tea?]

Most of the time, I think explicitly showing brutality or its aftermath has much less impact than leaving it to the player's imagination. Setting the stage, then leaving it to the inner eye, so to speak.

 

Uncovering the horror through dialogue or innuendo, observing the effects and psychological scars - this is the kind of presentation I'd like to see. I don't want to see lots of it, but what there is should definitely be told without sugarcoating. I'd love to see something surreal. Btw., consuming small amounts of the deceased is a funeral rite that actually exists. As soon as you read up on the motivations behind it, it's actually not horrible at all.

 

+1 on that. Innuendo is much more powerful than being super explicit.

 

I respectfully disagree, movies like SAW won't be as powerful with innuendos alone

Sometimes, you just have to show it to shock people, expose them with raw emotions.

 

Explicit exposition and innuendos are story-telling techniques. There are time and place for both of them, so they are both powerful IMO, it depends on how they use them.

[How realistic is your cup of tea?]

Nr. 1 sounds more like a grimdark joke setting like 40k than anything realistic.

 

Sorry, I was emphasizing the bad a bit too much :D

What I mean is in number 1, just like real life, there will be lots of benevolence, heroism, and other "good" stuffs. But there's no censoring for the "bad" either, that means you will see child killings explicitly should you wander near Spartan-like war camps.

 

That doesn't mean you will see kids dying or people raped every 60 seconds, just when it's logical and artistically needed.

[Real "Lies"]

I agree, the suspense of doubting friends/followers is the best!

That's why I love Kreia and other Obsidian's followers

[How realistic is your cup of tea?]

Erm. I want the first, brutally realistic, option, BUT: if cannibalism is accepted in a certain culture, I don't want it to be presented as a problem! No underlying social work here, please. And if someone views, I don't know, charity a problem ('cause it's counter-darwinian or something), then I want charity to be presente like one. So I guess my answer is "surrealistic", but not really.

 

What I don't want is black-and-white morality, that's for sure.

 

To be precise, surrealistic is kinda more like this...

"It's fine to fart in front of girls, in fact, if you fart louder, they will consider you much more attractive."

"Girls are considered more attractive if they have thick, bushy mustache and armpit hair"

"It's fine to slap people, it's how we say hello in Eternity"

 

...and many other mindbending social interactions

[How realistic is your cup of tea?]

I chose #1, "Brutally realistic", but I want to make something clear here: "Realism" doesn't necessarily mean "Brutal", or rapes, murders, and definitely not "sociopathic disorder". There are good things and there are bad things, and the fact of the matter is that during much of European history, people have lived relatively quiet lives in relatively serene surroundings - not sunk into post-apocalyptic destitute hellholes filled with suffering and purgatory-ish-ness.

 

...sociopathic disorder? Dear gods, man, where do you live anyway?

 

Exactly :D

What I mean with "brutal" is...

There will be benevolence, charity, prosperity. Lots of them in fact, but no sugar-coating the brutal and ugly truth either Just like IRL.

 

My uncle is a butcher, so sometimes I get to chop live chickens. Chicken meat is cheap, healthy and tasty, but there's no denying that I have to drench my chopper in blood to clean their innards.

[How realistic is your cup of tea?]

Tamed. We can have all that stuff, but I'm not a fan of having it thrown in my face every second. The entire world cannot be cynical, can it?

 

Brutal realism is not about 100% cynical and frequent taboos.

There will be lots of good and heartwarming things :D. But when the **** hits the fan, you can be sure you can see the splatter in HD. Just like IRL

[How realistic is your cup of tea?]

Not realistic at all. This is fantasy so world should be full of spectacular phenomena like talking mushrooms and exploding trees. I'm pretty tired with grim and gritty realistic fantasy that looks almost exactly like our world except nations are fictional some people shoot fire from their hands (and are of course hated/prosecuted by religious organisations) and some have pointy ears.

 

Oh no, we're not talking about realism in biology, science, etc

We're talking about social realism.

 

Will the talking mushroom be racist to the exploding trees? Will there be dragon bunny raping deer turtle?

But I guess surrealism suits you most

[How realistic is your cup of tea?]

So, how socially realistic do you desire the Eternity world will be ?

Note that choosing "Hard realism" doesn't mean there will be gore, sex, etc every 60 seconds, but only when artistically needed.

 

EDIT: fixed the polls.

"Brutal Realism" is now "Hard Realism"