Elerond
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Posts posted by Elerond
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48 minutes ago, Gorth said:
The link only works once and there was no feedback form. Believe me, I would have loved to give some feedback to that
That already would cause rejection of study here (at least it was rejection cause when I was still doing my dissertation), because it massively increase risk that study have unseen flaws and results can't be trusted
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SARS-CoV-2 = Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2
Full name of SARS was SARS-CoV = Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus
Which just tell how medical circles name viruses by telling what they do and which virus type they belong
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13 minutes ago, BruceVC said:
True but if you read Hurlshots post the kids in his school are wearing the masks correctly so it can be done
But I am not sure I understand your point considering the debate we having? Do you personally think kids must wear masks at schools in most of our countries where the virus level is high and spreading like SA, USA, Mexico,Russia, some EU countries, the whole of South America and most of Africa?
If wearing them can be organized such manner that they are helpful then yes, especially if no other safety measures can't be used, like keeping distance and smaller group sizes, good ventilation, washing hands and more time in outdoors
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3 hours ago, BruceVC said:
Do you think kids should wear mask in schools in countries that dont have high level of vaccination and have a high virus load like SA and the USA. In the UK for example masks are optional but they seem to have achieved high levels of vaccination and hospitalizations are down so you can understand their ostensibly controversial health decision
This debate for me is not about who is right or wrong because of hubris or from a personal perspective, its about the most effective way to end this terrible, insidious global disease
So the question of kids wearing masks should be about the science and the direct impact to the virus spread in all our countries ?
Kids and people in general should wear mask when it is sensible to do so, like then need to be close to multiple people for long period of time in confided space which doesn't have good ventilation. And they are able to wear mask so that it doesn't case them breathing problems and they are able to switch to new mask periodically (once per hour for good measure but at least twice per 8 hours.)
Mask don't do any good if they aren't wore properly and if they get wet from your breathing.
So wearing mask just to wear mask will not most likely help anyone
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12 hours ago, teknoman2 said:
I read an article today that Moderna is starting tests for an m-RNA vaccine for HIV. They have been working on it for years and testing it on animals and they start phase 1 of the tests on humans tomorrow. The first batch of volunteers are people who are completely healthy, they will have the vaccine and will be monitored for 10 months to measure the short term safety. If all goes well in phase 1, phase 2 of the testing will start after that with a broader range of test subjects to see the effects on people of various ages and health statuses. This test phase will last 12 months and then its phase 3 of testing that will involve people who already have HIV to see how well the vaccine works against the virus in a human body.
Years of R&D and animal testing followed by at least 3 years of human testing before the company takes it to the FDA for approval vs 10 months for the covid vaccine. Even if we assume that R&D took just a week and the rest was testing, at best we are now at phase 2 of the test period.
I got my jab fully aware that i'm a test subject for an experimental vaccine (i took part in phase 3 of the clinical trials for another study in 2011 because i had the illness the drug was meant to prevent... didn't help at all and i'm still sick hence the decision to vaccinate despite the risks) but what I can't stand is the fairy tale sold by the government and media that the vaccine is fully tested, safe, effective etc when we are barely halfway through the testing phase.
If you look their test reports you will see that they have done much less testing than they did with their corona virus vaccine, because they have couple billion dollar less funding (Moderna alone received over 2.5 billion dollars to test their vaccine which was already working in their initial test at that point). Question is not long you have tested something but how broadly and how much variety you have in your testing.
Also HIV is much more complex virus to fight against with vaccines, because it targets helper T cells, macrophages, and dendritic cells that are crucial to humans immune system. Which causes immune system to fight against itself, which leads to AIDS. So it has been difficult to find way to get human immune system attack only against the virus and not itself. It should tell how good messenger RNA method is to make vaccines if it is able to get immune system only/mostly attack HIV instead of going all crazy and kill itself.
I would point out that mRNA vaccines have been studied now for 30 years, so they aren't some new experimental thing, but thing that was just becoming in its maturity so that it could become more main stream medicine, which it has had hard time to do because it is so much more expensive than other methods that are used to make vaccines, but it is faster and more reliable method which is why it was able to pop-up to leading methods during current pandemic.
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2 hours ago, 213374U said:
WHO discourages use of masks by children, btw. But we only listen to WHO sometimes. Is ol' Tedros an irresponsible flat earther now? Who knows, who cares. More hysteria, please.
That depends on case and age of children
"Children aged 5 years and under should not be required to wear masks. This is based on the safety and overall interest of the child and the capacity to appropriately use a mask with minimal assistance.
WHO and UNICEF advise that the decision to use masks for children aged 6-11 should be based on the following factors:
- Whether there is widespread transmission in the area where the child resides
- The ability of the child to safely and appropriately use a mask
- Access to masks, as well as laundering and replacement of masks in certain settings (such as schools and childcare services)
- Adequate adult supervision and instructions to the child on how to put on, take off and safely wear masks
- Potential impact of wearing a mask on learning and psychosocial development, in consultation with teachers, parents/caregivers and/or medical providers
- Specific settings and interactions the child has with other people who are at high risk of developing serious illness, such as the elderly and those with other underlying health conditions
WHO and UNICEF advise that children aged 12 and over should wear a mask under the same conditions as adults, in particular when they cannot guarantee at least a 1-metre distance from others and there is widespread transmission in the area."
"Are there situations where children aged 5 years and under may wear or be required to wear a mask?
In general, children aged 5 years and under should not be required to wear masks. This advice is based on the safety and overall interest of the child and the capacity to appropriately use a mask with minimal assistance. There may be local requirements for children aged 5 years and under to wear masks, or specific needs in some settings, such as being physically close to someone who is ill. In these circumstances, if the child wears a mask, a parent or other guardian should be within direct line of sight to supervise the safe use of the mask."-
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14 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:
She's not wrong. Niqab/ burka is cultural, not religious, and you're only 'meant' to cover the hair (indeed the specific Koranic guidance is that you're not allowed to cover the face during the Hajj, so niqab/ burka are banned there).
Most of muslims follow ideology that person themself doesn't interpret what Koran say but that is left to religious scholars, bit similar to old school Catholicism, which though people themselves interpreting bible was heresy.
Mainly in my understanding Niqab/ burka use is based on texts of two muslim scholars Ahmad ibn an-Naqib al-Misrin (he says in his text that most muslim scholars, except some that belong in Hanafi school agree that women should hide their faces when in public) and Muhammad al-Ghazali said in his text that God/Allah set 18 punishments for all women because Eve ate forbidden apple, one of those punishments was that women need to use headscarf.
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1 hour ago, BruceVC said:
If its the money you are concerned about that is easy, we create a new tax for wealthy countries that have a vested interest in stopping this type extremism. So we tax the EU countries, something reasonable like a 5 % increase on income tax or personal tax?
I know someone like you wont mind this type of financial inconvenience considering how we all want a safer world and you have already identified the potential risk about the Taliban ruling Afghanistan?
Aa you have seen majority doesn't want to be involved. Demand seem to be for extreme protectionism instead of global co-operation. My guess is that if Islamic terrorism starts to increase those demands gets stronger.
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2 minutes ago, BruceVC said:
If you correct, and the risk is real, and Afghanistan devolves again to a breeding ground of Islamic extremism dont you think someone has to interfere again? Or we do wait until another 9/11 until we act ?
Who has trillion for next war? Considering set example of how ineffective such efforts are?
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Taliban has succeeded in easy part, but they don't have forces to control Afghanistan (even combined forces of Talibans and AAF would not be enough), so they will face same issue they faced in 90s. Local warlords and tribe/clan leaders are the people which Afghans loyal to. Bribes and threats from Taliban, may get them public support of people, but if they want to keep criminals and terrorist organization out from Afghanistan then they will face fight that becomes more difficult by time, if they don't find some miracle that actually will unite Afghanistan. Because otherwise corruption and self serving will be same cancer that it has been for decades.
Of course this means just more suffering for Afghans who don't have position and influence to benefit from the situation which of course decrease how law-abiding people are.
For rest of world if no one interferes these will mean that there is high likelihood that we will see increase in terrorist activity in all over the world in next decade, as Afghanistan will most likely become again safe haven to those who feel that world has not treated them as it should have.
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1 hour ago, BruceVC said:
You make some accurate observations especially around the various responses to the pandemic in our countries. I agree with the hugely negative impact the lockdowns have had on all our economies and what frustrates me the most about the lockdowns is its the private sector that has suffered the most with retrenchments and salary cuts and yet its the private sector that effectively drives the economy
I dont know about Greece but in SA no one in government or the public sector has been retrenched or had salary cuts....in fact our public sector unions are still demanding double inflation salary increases and bonuses
Lockdowns have been hard for certain sectors, but as general private sectors and economy is doing better than it did in 2019 in all over the world. Of course main reason for this is massive covid assistance programs launched by governments and institutions all over the world.
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oh and FDA as well as most similar agencies around the world gave the vaccine emergency use approval, which means the vaccines have not gone through the regular procedures that any medication needs to go through to be approved for public use.
This is not true. Covid vaccine have gone more comprehensive testing than most of the medication you have ever used, compared to flu vaccine for example testing and approval process was more comprehensive, demanded effectiveness was multiple times higher. Reason why covid vaccines need emergency approval is that new medication needs to be on market 5-10 years before it gets regular approval, because FDA, EMA etc. are quite paranoid about long term effects of medicines.
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there are almost 3 million people here who have had bot dozes of Pfizer and none of them are hospitalized and they have very few cases of corona infection.
there is about 2 million people who have had one doze of Pfizer and they make about half of new covid cases, but less than 10 of them are hospitalized but none needed intensive care
There are about million people who don't have any dozes and the make second half of new covid cases and they make 99% of hospitalized people and 100% of those in intensive care
105 (82 pfizer, 14 AZ and 9 moderna, which matches with relation which said vaccines has been given to people) people who have had vaccine have died, 63 of them were over 80 years old. 31 were between 60-80 and 11 less than 60 years old.
All the people who have died have had some previous disease that has been major factor of why said people have died, but in 35 cases it can be said for sure if symptoms (fever etc.) caused vaccine didn't factor in why person died.
In comparison there has been 117 982 verified cases of covid from which 1003 has caused person's death.
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1 hour ago, BruceVC said:
https://news.yahoo.com/afghan-president-ghani-flees-country-145644024.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall
I am stupefied that the official Afghan army of 350k trained people could acquiesce to the Taliban so easily....Kabul has fallen with NO resistance
No this is not the consequence of the USA " betraying " their partners. At the very least Ghani could have presented military resistance in some way ....he had an army and airforce FFS !!!
If after 20 years of support from a foreign country you cannot even make some stand in the interest of your own country them you need to accept the consequences of this cowardice and lack of action
Yes its a pity so many lives were lost in the last 20 years but at least AQ was defeated in Afghanistan and Bin Laden was killed ....so the invasion and the 20 years of US involvement wasnt a complete waste
There was no army of 350k trained people, that is just number of paper which never was true, thanks to massive corruption and there has afgan army has suffered lot of casualties and desertion in past 20 years, so their forces were mostly newbies with little training and only their special forces were actually well trained.
Also Afghanistan's forces were build with assumption that people there feel loyalty towards their country, which isn't reality as usually it goes family, village, clan. Which meant that forces didn't have any real morality to fight for Afghanistan and clan elders made all over deals with Taliban that if they leave them mostly alone they will just surrender.
Also Afghanistan's army's leadership didn't actually have any experience of leading the forces without support from Nato forces and they weren't able to get their command lines working in couple months, where Taliban has actually build well working command lines in past 20 years.
Also Afghans had hard time to supply equipment that they got from USA, as they had relied on US contractors to do all the maintenance jobs and when said contractors left with US forces they lost functionality from many of their vehicles.
So even though on paper Taliban's should not had any change against Afghanistan central government, the sad reality which we all got to witness was that only Talibans actually had force that was ready to fight for governance of Afghanistan.
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7 hours ago, Hurlsnot said:
I'm at a loss about Afghanistan. I don't really understand how to win the ideological part of such a war. The Taliban are terrible and it is hard to understand how people embrace that kind of rule in such large numbers. But barging in with Western rule and ideas seems to be pretty dang ineffective, so clearly we need a new strategy.
It isn't ideological part of the war which was lost, but reality of everyday citizens.
Corruption has been rampant in Afghanistan in past 20 years, one major example is how people have been tolled using roads. Person first pays toll to central government, then local clan leader/warlord demands their own toll and then when you drive to area controlled by another clan you need to pay tolls again to their leader and local leader of central government forces. Taliban has gained support by creating system where you pay toll once to them and then you are free to travel on area controlled by them for day.
It is similar strategy that ISIS used in Iraq. When you are fixing problems people are facing every day people are willing to ignore lot of bad stuff you do.
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5 minutes ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:
Didn't Gaetz get caught with underage girls or something? And the dude in a wheel chair had like 150 women from his alma mater write a letter saying he was a sex pest. More and more it seems Republicans will either not care or approve of it as evidence the fake news is trying to smear patriots or some other dumb ****.
He is accused having sexual relationship with 17 year old girl and trafficking her over state lines in order to have sex with her. But even though age of consent in Florida is 18, he isn't currently accused of stationary rape, because accused sexual relationship is believed happened in District of Columbia where age of consent is 16, but because girl isn't from DC, house opened investigation if Gaetz violated federal sex trafficking laws.
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15 minutes ago, Skarpen said:
No, it's not the same as I already explained. Legislation is clear in that regard and all sports organizations follow the legislature. There is no private sports organization that makes it's own rules and forces athletes to take anything or perform medical procedures at whim. If you insist on treating the vaccination in the same manner then you actually backup my viewpoint - adding covid vaccine to the mandatory list and taking care of this by proper legislature with governments taking responsibility for it.
They don't
Like for example US professional sport leagues, are not WADA signatories and have their own doping rules. And they do their own doping and drug testing.
https://www.usada.org/resources/faq/
Generally not, although USADA does oversee the independent anti-doping program for UFC. Most professional sports leagues and the NCAA are not WADA Code signatories, and they conduct their own anti-doping programs in-house. Professional and collegiate athletes who also participate in Olympic sports (e.g. basketball, hockey), however, are subject to USADA testing in the lead up to the Games or World Championship. USADA is responsible for the testing program and results management for athletes in Olympic, Paralympic, Pan American, and Parapan American sport. Please see the previous question to understand what constitutes Olympic, Paralympic, Pan American, and Parapan American sport. USADA also conducts testing by contract for sports and/or events that fall outside this group, such as professional boxing, dance, and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.
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3 minutes ago, Skarpen said:
Those are is just technicalities of how this organisation operates. It still isn't operating as you claim it to. It implements state and international laws not create it's own.
Sorry, but your parallel between how we allow doping tests and we should allow employers to do the same with vaccines is not holding any ground.
It is same, but for some reason you don't think that athletes medical privacy is worth same as yours
EDIT: It is interesting how international laws are just technicalities when it comes to independence of organization but are most important thing when it comes to medical privacy
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2 hours ago, Skarpen said:
Dude, just stop. It's on their webpage:
https://suek.fi/en/fincis/background/history/
"After a number of Finns were caught using doping agents at the World Ski Championships in 2001, there was a strong will to promote doping control in Finland. It was decided to establish a new independent organisation, funded by the Ministry of Education and Culture using lottery proceeds. The constituent meeting of the Finnish Anti-Doping Agency FINADA was held on 8 November 2001.
The Finnish Center for Integrity in Sports FINCIS starts
Ethical issues became increasingly important. The Ministry of Education and Culture launched extensive studies concerning the administration of the new sports conventions in practice: Minister Lauri Tarasti prepared a report for the Ministry in 2014 on the administration of ethical issues in sports in Finland. The research continued at the Ministry and on 18 November 2015, the Minister of Education and Culture, Sanni Grahn-Laasonen, appointed the Finnish Advisory Board for Ethics in Sport. The Finnish Center for Integrity in Sports FINCIS was established on 28 January 2016. “Finnish Anti-Doping Agency FINADA” was used as an auxiliary name of the new organisation for the duration of the transition."
It didn't "allow" Ministry to join. It was created by the Ministry, not the other way around as you try to claim. It's direct descendant of FINADA which was also created by state. It's not a direct government organization but it's not fully private and independent.
It follows the Finnish laws and regulations as well as international ones, not making their own ones. And they are all written on law:
https://suek.fi/en/anti-doping-activities/rules/
https://suek.fi/en/anti-doping-activities/rules/codes-and-standards/
https://suek.fi/en/anti-doping-activities/rules/legislation-and-international-agreements/
And I guess Sweden and Norway ones operate similarly. So yeah, nice try.
You will not find a single instance of a country where a private entity enforce their own rules on doping simply because antidoping is mainly to allow countries to compete internationally and international laws require countries to have legislature on the subject. I hope I saved you some time.
It is not created by state and it is not controlled by state. Although state demanded creation of it because of mentioned doping scandal.
Also it isn't actually direct descendant of FINADA, but fusion of several different organizations.
Also Ministry is allowed to join as Olympic committees and Sports Medical society have controlling votes, meaning that they have power to remove ministry from the organization.
"new independent organisation" <- as this clause in the text you quoted tells, it is independent of state control. And its company form is private non-profit registered association. Which means that EU regulations forbid direct state control over it, even when they have power to appoint people in its board of directors.
EDIT: Also doping test were compulsory before FINADA was formed and done by sports unions.
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6 hours ago, Skarpen said:
So... they do have those regulations and I'm pretty sure in all 3 those agencies are state owned not private. So... you further undermine your claim.
Anti-doping and Integrity in sports organization in Finland, FINCIS/SUEK is private entity (non-profit organization, founded by Finnish Olympic Committee, Finnish Paralympic Committee and Finnish Society of Sports Medicine, which are also private non-profit organizations
Although FINCIS/SUEK has given Ministry of Education and Culture power to appoint 2-3 members in its board of directors because organization get most of its funding from state. For reasons there are no state owned sport organizations or statutory sport corporations in Finland, even though majority of sports rely on state funding.
Also Sweden's and Norway's anti doping agencies are private organizations that have similar dependency on state funds
Also mentioned regulations aren't written in laws but instead done by agreements which individual need to accept in order to compete in sports on levels that those regulations concern.
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18 minutes ago, Skarpen said:
Umm, you were arguing that there are countries that DON'T have antidoping laws and I asked to provide those countries examples. You are undermining your own argument here.
UK, Sweden and Norway for example don't have criminal code against doping, just anti-doping regulations and established anti-doping agency
EDIT: Import and sales bans for certain substances don't necessary need own anti-doping laws, so it is possible that UK, Sweden and Norway have banned imports and sales of growth hormones, anabolic steroids etc. according to Anti-Doping Convention 1989
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29 minutes ago, Skarpen said:
Name those countries. I cannot come up with a western democratic country that doesn't have such laws either internally or are a subject of outside regulations but have sports organization doing testing on their own in that country. The international sports organization do follow international laws and regulations when it comes to testing.
Italy for example has laws that steroid (and some other doping) user can be imprisoned
Finland has laws that forbid importing and selling certain doping substances but actual using isn't illegal
Germany has anti doping law which carries up to three year sentence for athletes that test positive
Austria has law which carries up to 10 years prison time for athletes that test positive
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3 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:
I can't see anti doping as being a great parallel for making vaccines compulsory- since there are so many exceptions to the anti doping rules granted. More than a third of elite cyclists have through dedication and hard work overcome the horrendous handicap of asthma, purely coincidentally, by having to be allowed to take performance enhancing salbutamol.
The obvious comparison is that if you have 33% of cyclists allowed to use salbutamol due to exceptions you end up with... 33% of people allowed not to vaccinate due to exceptions. Which is actually worse than in many countries.
(Personally, I'd sack every last border worker here that refuses a vaccine. It's their choice but it's also their consequence; and they don't have the right to potentially kill several thousand of their fellow citizens)
Question was about medical privacy in sense that person needs to show employer their medical records to proof that they fulfill employer's demands and go through testing demanded by employer in order to have right to work.
Would mandatory vaccine demand be more acceptable from employer if they offer alternate that person can instead of vaccination records show every morning negative covid test?
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35 minutes ago, Skarpen said:
Sure, but they are allowed to do that because the antidoping regulations allows them to do it. They didn't self appointed the right to do so on themselves. And still antidoping check is withing the range of their let's call it business which is sport. No other entity have the right to do those to their employees. Local store cannot check the cashiers for using doping or penalize them for doing it.
It's light-years apart from some company deciding on it's own they will interfere with someone's personal life.
Basically you are arguing that if a soldier can shoot another soldier on a battlefield then you can shoot your neighbor.
It's not the same thing.
There are no special antidoping laws in most of the countries (and in most cases those special laws are that doping is illegal, not that doping test needs special permission), meaning that sport organizations were able to create those antidoping regulations using current laws, meaning that any employer can make similar regulations and they have even easier time as they don't probably don't need do it world wide.
Coronavirus 666: The Number of the Delta Variant (but in an entirely scientific context)
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