Grimlorn
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Posts posted by Grimlorn
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You're right ruin is an exaggeration, but those games weren't better for them and they were bad in some of those games. They added nothing and weren't necessary to anyone besides people who can't play RPGs without them and they're the minority. And no I'm not counting Deionarra from PST as a romance. I'm talking about the PC pursuing relationships with his/her companions.
For the umpteenth time, every single Obsidian game that was good except, kind of, FO:NV, has had romances. Y'all's claim that romances ruin RPGs is quite frankly baseless nonsense.Yeah we're whiners because we're discussing how much time and resources it takes to create romances and how they tend to feel tacked on in RPGs and ruin them.
With all the time it takes to write these characters and their limited budget, why would you insist that they add romances into the game? Answer: Entitlement
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Obsidian doesn't need us. It's not like they lose anything from ignoring this discussion.Guys, I know that you're angry at each others' existence, but don't plan to use any confirmation one way or another to go "HAHA I WON YOU LOST **** YOU". I mean, I get why you'd want to do that, but I've seen this happen before and it never ends well.
I mean, I know you'll ignore me completely and still do it, but I wanted to say it anyways.
This.
By doing that, the only one who truly loses is Obsidian.
Do we really want Obsidian to lose?
It's not like the pro-romance crowd has provided any special insight besides, "I need romances or I won't be as immersed in the game."
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Yeah we're whiners because we're discussing how much time and resources it takes to create romances and how they tend to feel tacked on in RPGs and ruin them.@Lurky: These whiners are just so annoying.... But yeah, it is all up to Obsidian. I would like to have romances in the game (if they are well written) but I will not demand it. I will accept whatever decision Obsidian makes.
That's why we want to create another thread/poll so we can get a poll that says we're the majority on the forums. Real rational btw.
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There doesn't need to be 2 romance threads. And I see the same 5-6 pro-romance people too, like you.
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I didn't even think it took 2-3 months to write a character and that's quick. I definitely don't want them wasting any time on romance, especially if they're not fans of romance and don't want it themselves. Appeasing the romance crowd would make them justified in romance needing to be a part of RPGs, that you can't have a great RPG without one these days.
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I always wondered if they uncensored the DVD of those episodes? Did anyone ever check it out? I figured the speech at the end would've explained why they were portraying Muhammad and bring some sense to this Muslim conflict. I always wondered what the episode would have looked like.
Anyways, Comedy Central are a bunch pussies for censoring that episode. They're basically saying it's ok for them to profit off of making fun of every other religion, but when it comes to Muslims that's off limits because an American Muslim threatened them. So they gave up their freedom of speech not out of respect for religion but out of fear and cowardice.
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If a woman pledges an extra $100, I'll go on a date with her. (money for date not included)
Just want to do my part to help the guys at Obsidian.
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Hookers and blow cost money. Keep giving it to them.
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Don't link to the Bioware forums. Also no one cares what you asked for in DA3. Just because you spent 1 post not talking about romance doesn't vindicate you or that community.Not to belabor this, but here's a link to what I posted there about what I'd want from DA3 - http://social.biowar...712/18#14153607
And in it you'll notice not a mention of romances. From me, at least. I take it as a forgone conclusion that they'll be in the game, but I don't have any demands for them.
What I listed there are what I'd like BioWare to address to get back to what I want.
That list could work well for Project Eternity, too, except that in many ways PE is already giving me more than I could hope for from DA3.
Not everyone on BSN is romance-addicted. There's a pretty big backlash there about the Tali threads and such. And, well, most of us old-schoolers have been driven away, some of us are still hanging on due to inertia.
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I'd say you're the worst of the worst of the worst, but I'm a pretty nice guy.you're the worst around
Would you say I'm the best of the worst or the worst of the worst?
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I wasn't making a statement disqualifying romance people - I was just curious to see if the Bioware regulars were the regular pro-romance people.I wasn't making a statement disqualifying anti-romance people - I was just curious to see if RPGCodex regulars were the regular anti-romance people.
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How many pro-romance people are from Bioware?Not to start a flame war, but I'm curious -
how many anti-romance people are also visitors / posters on RPGCodex?
Maybe we should create a poll.
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There's so much wrong with this I don't even know where to begin. I also can't believe you're using Kotor as an example. You contradict yourself saying you don't want an endless stream of XP but then complain that you were level capped at the end of Kotor and weren't getting XP for the last area.Level caps only matter in games with endless random content.
if you have a preset number of encounters and quests... a quantifiable maximum amount of experience points achievable, if you will... then level caps are a moot point.
As much as I love games like Fallout and Fallout 2, I actually prefer there not to be endless random encounters and an endless stream of XP... this usually leads to grinding being necessary at points in the game to be able to push forward in the story, but even without this... no, I don't want endless XP.
So I'm okay with there be a de facto level cap.
A hard forced one that stops a character from leveling while there's still more XP to be gotten, however, I am not in favor of.
I remember reaching the Star Forge in KotOR and being max level. Suddenly half (or more) of the fun of all the fights from that point forward was gone.
If there is a leveling system, level caps are good because it makes it easier to balance combat and make it challenging towards the end of the game. If you have a lot of side quests/content and no level cap, then you have to make the game easy enough for someone to skip all of that and still beat the game. Meanwhile, someone that does most or all of the side quests levels up much more and makes the end game trivial.
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Who cares?Another cup of tea thread! This time it's about relationship between you and your favorite oppositions.
If your choice is not included and/or if your relationship is one-sided, feel free to comment
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No one is bashing Bioware. They're main feature in their games is romances. While Obsidian's strengths are usually towards characters, dialogue and story. Bioware lately is all about the romance and action combat. It's not bashing when it's true or it's your opinion about their games.You all do know the rules you are breaking with each bash on BioWare?
And the hand-tipping - this is less about being anti-romance for some of you and more about being anti-BioWare.
It's about being anti both since Bioware is always pro-romance.
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I need "me" time, so no multiplayer.
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Has anyone who says Kotor 2 had good romances actually played Kotor 2 recently? I played and beat it last month when the restored content mod was finished.This is just my two cents, I thought the romances with the Handmaiden and Visas Marr in KotOR 2 were very well done and actually added to the story. I personally don't think a romance must happen, but can remain an option in a companions storyline that actually impacts or is commented on within the game rather than happening in a vacuum.
Visas is hitting on you right away for no reason. And as soon as Visas joins your party the Handmaiden is jealous of her. These romances were pretty Biowarian in that they only required about 2-3 conversations with them before they were in love with you. And both pursue/want you.
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No, in RPGs there are choices. In books you're being told a story. In RPGs you're role playing the character in the story.With 2 I do agree, but with 1 - text-based game seems just as fine to tackle this as a text-based book. The only factor left is how skilled writer is. No?
You can't make every game story about the romance with the romance being a main theme of the game. It makes no sense to do this. And even if you do it, it's one character of one sex. That means people who aren't attracted to that sex, which is about half, won't have a romance, so what happens they petition for their option for romance, and then their favorite characters they can't romance. It's a dumb, slippery slope where romance is the main theme of the game instead of the role playing elements.
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I think the real question is:
Are polls of polls helpful to Obsidian?
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You're the one getting hostile. You're the one acting like Obsidian owes you something because you donated to the kickstarter and anyone that doesn't agree with you is "hostile".If you don't equate romance itself, in whatever genre or media as childish, then in fact you are counting videogames as a childish form of entertainment and romances in them get caught by extension.
Which really is sad.
Why is that sad? I'm an adult and feel completely comfortable calling videogames one of my guilty juvenile pleasures. I don't look to them to fulfil me the same way an Ingmar Bergman film or T.S. Eliot poem would. I play videogames to play games. To have fun using strategy, solving puzzles and hopefully get entertained with some fresh, interesting and well-implemented stories and ideas. But even the most well-written games (PS:T for instance) do not come anywhere near the most well-written films, books or poems. It is what it is.
UH OH CUE VIDEOGAMES VS ART CONVERSATION IN 3...2...1...
Video games are art, in that they are a creative product of human mind. They are not art by definition in terms of conveying some deeper meaning, evoking thoughts and feelings. But nontheless, I would count a few games in there. Yes, PS:T included. Now, you do realise that having so hostile attitude towards differing opinions as yours is quite impolite, do you?
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That's the thing. Everyone that's pro romance has played a lot if not all of Bioware's recent games. They obviously are doing something right for you to still want them in RPGs and think they're a good thing. They've made it popular by inserting it into every game they make for their fans and they love them for it.That said, I obviously prefer no romance at all vs having badly written romance. I have enough of these in recent BioWare ventures. I don't think most of the anti-romance crowd would say something similar, as to them romance can only be, let me read these posts... Ah, yes - sad, childish, cheesy, and so on. What a terribly uncomplicated arguments you people have.
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Oh I know they enjoy them, but they also want more of the game about them, and they admit the ones from Bioware no longer satisfy them and aren't as good looking back.Straw man. Many pro-romance people actually have enjoyed romance in many games. I listed a whole bunch I enjoyed.
If the shoe fits...And here is the boil-down to "I mock BioWare fans."I've actually seen people on the Bioware forums ask for the same stuff. It's not really insulting or mocking if it's true.
I don't know what you mean by this, but Obsidian owes you nothing just because you want a romance and donated. It's a donation not an investment.Okay, and how it makes no sens that if I am willing to back this project up, I do have a certain degree of confidence in it's authors? -
You're talking about different forms of media. It's not in every movie or book btw, not even the majority. But in every RPG it's asked for and it's in almost all mainstream RPGs being released. I don't want to play a 30+ hour game that is about a romance because people want a romance integrated into the story. I hate soap operas and that's what it would be. Movies are only 1.5-2 hours long. You can avoid romance novels by not reading them.Romance in games is always cheap and rushed out - consequence of the game not really having enough "time" and/or the designers just being garbage at it, I suppose.My experience with ME, DA, KOTOR didn't really feel more enriching if I hooked up as opposed to not hooking up, I guess there were some sappy lines though.
I think this may be a reason why romances in games you've mentioned well, sucked (KOTOR had some good parts, but far from being significantly better). BioWare treats romance as fanservice, they literally throw it into their games because, well, it sells. Their fanbase largely likes it, but they do feel stupid, rushed, unnatural and forced because they do not consist an actual part of the plot.
Good romances in other types of media are always parts of the story itself, and should be treated as such. So it's writing quality we are talking about here.
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There was a mod released recently for NWN2 that converted IWD to the NWN2 engine. You made that point about iso games like IWD being better to play in engines like NWN2, go try that and tell me it's better in the NWN2 engine than the IE.Yes, but similarly, not every aspect of the game needs to be stuck about 15 years in the past. I mean... the way some people talk it's more like they just want a whole new expansion-like campaign of Baldur's Gate 2, Icewind Dale or Planescape: Torment with nothing new or fresh and every single damn element to be exactly the way it was back then, even the ones that sucked.
[Merged] Gods save us another romance thread
in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)
Posted · Edited by Grimlorn
And this is the difference between us. I'm sure that the people who are against romances will still get the game even if they are in there (as long as they aren't like Bioware's), but quite a few of you that are for romance would cancel your pledges today if they announced there would be no romances because you don't actually like RPGs.