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Orogun01

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Posts posted by Orogun01

    Politics XXXVII (The 12th Prime)

    in Way Off-Topic

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Amentep said:

    I find it odd that people don't ask for more evidence or context when presented video footage* - even with things that don't challenge their views.  Hitch**** had a theory regarding images; take a picture of an old man smiling and intercut it with him looking at a cooing baby.  The context is that of a doting grandfather and baby.  Take the same man smiling footage and intercut it with a sexy woman undressing, and the man become a lecher.

    In this case, the poster of the video has an obvious agenda, which itself makes the video suspicious.

    • The account is starting from the position that 'blacks' are invading and de-white-ifying Europe, and he advocates all Europeans set their location status to "Occupied <nation>" to indicate this
    • He refers to a group of people as a "pack" to associated them with violent and animalistic imagery, so he's already appealing to emotion rather than logic and trying to otherfy the group

    Since we must assume an agenda based on the evidence, it'd be nice if the details of the video could be verified independently.

    Mind you, I think its wise for context in a lot of situations; I've seen enough pictures paraded as "Thing a" when they were really "Thing b" on the internet and in real life to know that you can't trust random people to deal in honesty and truth.  This happened online with the recent riots, where posts were made of fires from a year or more ago claiming they were from those nights (as if the fires and destruction that existed weren't bad enough on their own).

    So looking at the footage:

    1. The video footage appears old - it is very low res for a modern phone.
    2. There's nothing to indicate it is in Australia that we can tell from the low res images, so we can't even begin to verify the narrative we are presented with.
    3. We only see part of the video and don't know what happened before or after the film shown.

    These are important because the claim is that this happened and nothing was done about it - but this can't be independently verified by details about where the original source is (assuming even that nothing was done about it).

    Perhaps the group was bad people, perhaps there was an incident prior to this we don't see, perhaps all of them are drunk or mentally ill - the point is we don't know the context, but the poster of the video is trying to create a narrative that fits their agenda.  Unless you want to accept that agenda - and any agenda presented to you by anyone who presents information to you - some critical thinking skills should be exercised, in my opinion.  

    *I actually include news media on this as well as often times "The News" is synonymous with "What We Have Footage Of", and even that can be selectively edited.

    The Kuleshov effect AKA "why women think Ryan Gosling is deep"

    To add to your point, they also selectively show one case and then quote statistics to associate all cases with the former one. Both sides are very guilty of this and it just creates the illusion of scale, when in a per capita analysis it is a very small group of incidents.

    Politics XXXVII (The 12th Prime)

    in Way Off-Topic

    Posted

    6 hours ago, Amentep said:

    While violence, in general, should be condemned, I'd be wary of buying into the narrative surrounding the presentation of that video.  The only context for the video is provided by the poster, who by their twitter profile has an agenda they are pushing (if it wasn't obvious from their word choice).

    Not accusing you in particularly of this but I always found it funny how people ask for nuance and context when it comes to evidence that challenge their views. When it supports it there's no need for evidence and nuance would just get in the way of an extreme emotional response.

    • Like 1

    Politics XXXVII (The 12th Prime)

    in Way Off-Topic

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

    A Crash in the Dollar Is Coming

    And

    $26T and increasing at a rate of $11,500 per second

    Look at it this way.... no one will give a f-k about whose lives matter when a loaf of bread costs $1k. And it IS coming. But, f--k it. I'm prepared. How about you guys?

    Seems like one of those shortsighted predictions that assumes that the unrest in the US will continue and looks at the US in a vacuum. Everyone else in the globe is doing poorly thanks to the Wuhan flu, no one will turn their economy away from one of the biggest trading partners in the globe during this time. A short term inflation is likely in the way, but that can be eased through rationing as a lot of stores have been doing.

    What Are You Playing Now: The New Beginning Thread

    in Computer and Console

    Posted

    7 hours ago, MedicineDan said:

    I've had a little extra time and I *finally* finished Darkest Dungeon.  I cheated in that I did it on Radiant.  However, now that I understand you can just keep throwing people at the RNG, you'll eventually win, I understand that harder levels just mean more patience.  All good.  I downloaded the expansions because the game is just. that. addictive!  This game is splendid for getting your mind off of our current socio-political environment.

    Yes, a game where a shadowy heir to a fortune sends unfortunates to their doom for profit definitively takes your mind of the current political environment.
    Joking aside, best Lovecraft game yet.

    • Haha 5

    Politics XXXVI (will catch up to superbowls soon)

    in Way Off-Topic

    Posted

    17 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

    there is no leader o' a movement to frame protests. such gatherings is visceral and unspecific expressions o' frustration and anger. protesters want change, whatever that means.

    would be nice if there were some kinda unifying voice and leadership for the protests. somebody in Congress?  then again, am suspecting anybody who would step forward to be face/voice o' the 2020 protests would get labeled as a terrorist by the current administration.

    HA! Good Fun!

    If there's no leader how do they pick the places to protest, or even to start a protest? Someone said, we are going to protest at this place and other peopled joined in. If they said, lets try to get enough signatures to do a recall vote, it would have taken a different direction. Likely wouldn't have gotten nowhere since funding for BLM depends of visibility and a riot its far louder than a petition. Plus BLM and Antifa receive funding, they're organized.

    Politics XXXVI (will catch up to superbowls soon)

    in Way Off-Topic

    Posted

    13 hours ago, Gromnir said:

    well, that is near enough the definition o' intentional. the cop intended to push the older civilian gentleman. weren't an accident. fact the results were far more extreme than anticipated is not making the action unitenional. 

    consequences unintended? sure, but is not unforeseen consequences. is not act of god unlikely. if orogun pushed vol as the cop pushed the old guy, then orogun would be on the hook for battery-- civil and criminal. makes sense, no? pushing the old guy were not a mistake. we rare punish mistake in this country. however, we do punish consequences, even unintended consequences, from intended bad acts. particular with civil penalties, we hold folks accountable for consequences.

    am believing what gd were asking earlier in the thread is why the cop standard is different than the ordinary person standard. in the present circumstance with the buffalo video, unlawful touching is less clear precise 'cause is a cop. the old guy in the video appeared to touch an officer with the phone in his right hand. like it or not, technical, that action by the old man would be unlawful and potential battery as a harmful/offensive/illegal touching. even such a small and insignificant gesture may make a physical response by the cops legal. as disconcerting as it may be to hear it, in the crowd control scenario being shown, particular after the old guy actual touched the cop, is quite possible the cop's actions would not be found as a matter o' law to be unlawful.

    regardless, if you defy a cop and fail the attitude test, then there is a high probability the cop will use violence if any excuse to do so is provided. legal it takes very little to legitimize cop force.  resist arrest. physical contact initiated by plaintiff/suspect. fleeing felon rule. etc.

    we should, as a nation, examine the issues o' appropriate use o' police force, but is an extreme complex issue. is no simple Court decision or piece o' obvious legislation which is gonna fix. 

    HA! Good Fun!

    I think cops should be judged (morally not legally) by  reasonable expectation of what action judgments are acceptable based on the situations they find themselves in. If you're a cop involved in a riot your emotions run high, you might be hearing about people you know being gunned down by protesters and are in a state of heightened tension. Within that state it is very easy to make a bad call that ends up in tragedy.  We seem to hold cops to an unrealistic standard of what they should be; a soldier that shoots civilians that's just collateral damage, a doctor that kills a patient with the wrong treatment, malpractice. These thing happen but because they're outside of our periphery we don't judge them as harshly as police videos of events that are a minor percent of the sum of all police interactions across the country.

    It's also true (and I agree with you) that cops need to have more accountability, politicians and bankers too for that matter. This whole situation could have been easily avoided if that cop with a long history of unlawful events was out of the force. The question then its, who's signing in to fill that void? Definitively not many people are eager to join a job where everyone will hate you, doesn't pay well and you could die. For the higher ups that only have the mandate of close cases, they don't care who does it or how it gets done. I'm just assuming this based on my own experiences in corporate jobs but it might be worth entertaining the thought that we don't have a policing problem so much as bad police management problem.

    Also, If I push Vol and he dies I was protecting myself by enforcing social distancing.

    Politics XXXVI (will catch up to superbowls soon)

    in Way Off-Topic

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Malcador said:

    https://twitter.com/WBFO/status/1268712530358292484?s=1

    Cops are saying he tripped and fell.  

    Obviously he didn't but it didn't seem like it was entirely intentional, like they just wanted to push him back and it turned out wrong. It's bad that they weren't allowed to help but it might be protocol to stay out of the way and let a medical professional handle it. You could do more harm than good if you don't know what you're doing, might be that cops need some medical training to handle situations like this.

    R@nd0m V1d30 G@m3 N3w5

    in Computer and Console

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Hurlshot said:

    Huh, well if they put Andromeda on it, maybe I will finally play that.

    ...Just spare yourself the pain, no human being should be forced to play Andromeda or Kingmaker. Those games actually made me feel physically ill, there should research on them for interrogation purposes.

    • Like 1
    • Haha 2
    • Confused 1
    • Hmmm 1
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