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Albion72

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Posts posted by Albion72

  1. I would want it developed by Bethesda :D When I say this, though, by KotOR-like I mean RPG.

     

    I love KotOR as well as Morrowind/Oblivion, but it would be interesting to see a SW with that open-ended style.

     

    *Cue hate* I suggested that a while ago (or was it on the Bioware forums?) and almost got my head chopped off for treason.

    Oblivion is a dead world with cardboard cutouts for people, while Kotor is a living world with NPC's with more personality than a thimble.

     

    tbh just the main characters. The others have a problem that needs fixing, much like oblivion.

  2. I must again respectfully disagree. IMO K1-K2 is not a catalyst. For example. Say Revan/Kreia/Exile DIDN'T know about the True Sith. Assume everything plays out how it does in the games (minus revan/exile leaving known space to fight True Sith, lets assume they don't know about them (whoa weird Deja Vu .). By the end of K1/K2, The Mandalorian War/Jedi Civil War are over with the Republic as the victors. 300 Years later, (according to Star Wars canon and this new MMO), the Sith would strike the Republic from seemingly nowhere. This was not effected in any way by the events of K1-K2. My point being, just because Revan knows theres a threat out there, doesn't mean the MMO that is taking place 300 years later is going to tie the story line up for KOTOR.

    Except that you yourself have said that Revan's journey into the unknown was what kept the Sith from attacking for those 300 years. Based on what Bio has said I'm guessing that Revan is going to play a HUGE role in the MMO.

     

    Yes, I have. BUT, what I stated in the quote that you... quoted... was an assumption. Which means its 50/50 chance it could be correct IF thats how it played out. I have also stated that Revan may NOT have fought the True Sith empire because maybe it was so strong at the time of K2 he simply had to wait for them to attack the Republic (even with Exile's help).

    Admittedly it would seem impossible for Revan to have an affect on the Sith Empire given that He wanders in there as a paragon of the light side. The best I could see him pulling off would be Sparticus all over again (slave revolt that nearly toppled the roman empire) and this leaves the empire with significant rebuilding to do given their workforce was wiped out and they lost alot of assets putting the revolt down. Again this is just a possible scenario.

     

    You believe because (canonically) he is light side, that he is not strong enough to face the empire? Is this correct? I'm not sure what you are saying :o.

    I'm saying that for him to rise in power within the Sith empire he'd have to give himself over to the dark side or be REALLY GOOD at hiding his affiliation. I mean the entire Sith Society is based around using the dark side and the fact that in order to rise in the ranks you have to kill your predecessor. I don't think that Revan would be able to stay as a lightsider and have a significant impact on the Sith without either becoming a slave (and eventually leading a slave revolt) or somehow starting a grassroots resistance which wouldn't be very interesting in a game of any type... wait nix that last, it'd be interesting in a strategy game but not in a RPG.

     

    Well true, but thats assuming Revan wants to be come the emperor of the Sith Empire. We don't know what he wants to do tbh.

  3. To end the Reven in the unknown regions plot, so the MMO doesn't have to involve Reven at all.

     

    Which is why the MMO doesn't even have to involve the previous two KOTOR games.

     

    I'm sure you'll hear lots of talk of the events WE KNOW ABOUT though. Such as Revan beating Malak and what not.

     

    The Mandalorian Wars and stuff.

    Except that Bioware has stated that they want to make the game a sequel to the Kotor games (if only in spirit). My guess is that the Jedi will be venerate Revan and try to follow in his image, while the Sith will either be taught his actions in the unknown regions and thus hate him or they will venerate what he was before his "incident" with bastila.

     

    Stated? More like, vaguely mentioned.

     

    Its all the MMO industry speaking. None of it can be taken for dead fact until they release (LA by "they) a statement saying, "SHUT UP ABOUT KOTOR III, NO ITS NOT HAPPENING."

  4. 1. It could be true that the Sith Emperor is just doing a Palpatine type thing, but then again, I'm not sure if cloning technology exists yet seeing as it is very complex. (I have not seen any cloning examples in this timeline, I'm not saying there aren't any. If there are, I would like to know what they are from; comic, game, w/e.) The way they word it is very straightforward though, "The Sith Emperor has been alive for over 1,400 years."

     

    2. There is also no evidence that Yoda's species is why he lives so long. The aforementioned quote I mentioned is all the proof I need to believe Yoda was using the force. Saying Yoda would've been frowned upon for prolonging his life is a little touchy. I mean come on, no one WANTS to die (Well, certain mentally-ill people), but Yoda was known as the wisest, most Jedi-like of Jedi, who followed the code, always offered guidance, always fought for the right cause and what was right. His reputation as a good individual superseded his prolonged life, because his prolonged life was merely giving him more opportunities to help the galaxy in any way he could. (This is my opinion, you can have yours.)

    Wasn't Yoda the one telling Anakin that death is part of the cycle of life and to deny it would be.... a path to the darkside? or something to that effect.

     

    you know in this scene:

     

    sw20.jpg

     

    been looking to use an image from that for a while :D

     

    No. He told Anakin (NOT EXACT words, watch the movie for those).

     

    "Death... is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those who transform into the force. Mourn them do not, miss them do not. Fear, leads to jealousy, the shadow of greed that is."

     

    Anakin: What must I do?

     

    Yoda: Train yourself to let go, of everything you fear to lose.

     

    Yoda told anakin not to fear the deaths of anyone, that that would lead him down a dark path (it did, whoop de doo). Basically attachment leads to jealousy (Thats the actual line I think.)

     

    He didn't say don't prolong your life. :D

    Except that to prolong your life is to show that you either A) fear death or B) are so full of yourself you think that it would be best to use your resources on yourself to increase your lifespan so that you can hold authority longer.

     

    If someone like yoda knew how to prolong his natural born lifespan then he would probably give the secrets to other people rather than just keep it to himself.

     

    Thats really the crux of it, Yoda doesn't seem to have given these "secrets" to the other jedi. If he did then we'd probably have seen in the various stories and guides that jedi lived a heck of alot longer than the standard. To not do so would show that he's selfish and fears others gaining his powers.

     

    All living things eventually die. We do eventually. Is taking the right medical paths, eating the right things, exercising, doing all these things to make our life healthier and last longer showing that we are evil and wanting to follow a dark path?

     

    We don't know if he has given his secrets to anyone. He could have, or he might not trust others with the secret.

     

    To further research this subject I researched Master Vandar, considering he is the same race. The dang wiki article doesn't say his age. :o

  5. To end the Reven in the unknown regions plot, so the MMO doesn't have to involve Reven at all.

     

    Which is why the MMO doesn't even have to involve the previous two KOTOR games.

     

    I'm sure you'll hear lots of talk of the events WE KNOW ABOUT though. Such as Revan beating Malak and what not.

     

    The Mandalorian Wars and stuff.

  6. Props to them then. But it probably won't happen in this new Star Wars MMO. I played Age of Conan because it was bragging the lore was going to be deep. Guess what? The LORE was deep to a certain degree, but most of the quests were the aforementioned examples.

    I'm guessing that Bioware has a MUCH better grasp of story telling the Eidos. Eidos has been known more recently for releasing dross. Meanwhile Funcom has had limited success with Dreamfall and Longest journey. But telling a tale in MMO's is generally either hard or you have to set it up so that a player can completly bypass much of the story in favor of leveling.

     

    In the two MMO's I've played I've seen fairly decent storytelling for those who want to look for it, but usually it doesn't get in the way of the game itself.

     

    Yeah. IMO, if I want a good story, I stick to single-player games. I play MMOs for gameplay (and sometimes story). The story I find in MMOs leaves me wanting much much more though. I usually consult wikis to find out what I want to know as far as MMOs.

  7. I must again respectfully disagree. IMO K1-K2 is not a catalyst. For example. Say Revan/Kreia/Exile DIDN'T know about the True Sith. Assume everything plays out how it does in the games (minus revan/exile leaving known space to fight True Sith, lets assume they don't know about them (whoa weird Deja Vu .). By the end of K1/K2, The Mandalorian War/Jedi Civil War are over with the Republic as the victors. 300 Years later, (according to Star Wars canon and this new MMO), the Sith would strike the Republic from seemingly nowhere. This was not effected in any way by the events of K1-K2. My point being, just because Revan knows theres a threat out there, doesn't mean the MMO that is taking place 300 years later is going to tie the story line up for KOTOR.

    Except that you yourself have said that Revan's journey into the unknown was what kept the Sith from attacking for those 300 years. Based on what Bio has said I'm guessing that Revan is going to play a HUGE role in the MMO.

     

    Yes, I have. BUT, what I stated in the quote that you... quoted... was an assumption. Which means its 50/50 chance it could be correct IF thats how it played out. I have also stated that Revan may NOT have fought the True Sith empire because maybe it was so strong at the time of K2 he simply had to wait for them to attack the Republic (even with Exile's help).

    Admittedly it would seem impossible for Revan to have an affect on the Sith Empire given that He wanders in there as a paragon of the light side. The best I could see him pulling off would be Sparticus all over again (slave revolt that nearly toppled the roman empire) and this leaves the empire with significant rebuilding to do given their workforce was wiped out and they lost alot of assets putting the revolt down. Again this is just a possible scenario.

     

    You believe because (canonically) he is light side, that he is not strong enough to face the empire? Is this correct? I'm not sure what you are saying :wub:.

  8. 1. It could be true that the Sith Emperor is just doing a Palpatine type thing, but then again, I'm not sure if cloning technology exists yet seeing as it is very complex. (I have not seen any cloning examples in this timeline, I'm not saying there aren't any. If there are, I would like to know what they are from; comic, game, w/e.) The way they word it is very straightforward though, "The Sith Emperor has been alive for over 1,400 years."

     

    2. There is also no evidence that Yoda's species is why he lives so long. The aforementioned quote I mentioned is all the proof I need to believe Yoda was using the force. Saying Yoda would've been frowned upon for prolonging his life is a little touchy. I mean come on, no one WANTS to die (Well, certain mentally-ill people), but Yoda was known as the wisest, most Jedi-like of Jedi, who followed the code, always offered guidance, always fought for the right cause and what was right. His reputation as a good individual superseded his prolonged life, because his prolonged life was merely giving him more opportunities to help the galaxy in any way he could. (This is my opinion, you can have yours.)

    Wasn't Yoda the one telling Anakin that death is part of the cycle of life and to deny it would be.... a path to the darkside? or something to that effect.

     

    you know in this scene:

     

    sw20.jpg

     

    been looking to use an image from that for a while :D

     

    No. He told Anakin (NOT EXACT words, watch the movie for those).

     

    "Death... is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those who transform into the force. Mourn them do not, miss them do not. Fear, leads to jealousy, the shadow of greed that is."

     

    Anakin: What must I do?

     

    Yoda: Train yourself to let go, of everything you fear to lose.

     

    Yoda told anakin not to fear the deaths of anyone, that that would lead him down a dark path (it did, whoop de doo). Basically attachment leads to jealousy (Thats the actual line I think.)

     

    He didn't say don't prolong your life. :D

  9. 1. That is why the remnants of the defeated Sith Empire (From the Great Hypserpace War) fled even further into unknown territory to avoid complete and utter destruction. They've had a few thousand years alone.

     

    2. You do now. The Sith Emperor has been alive since Great Hyperspace War till 300 years after the events of KOTOR II. Its possible its more than one person but this is not likely considering hte wording being used.

     

    3. I think its safe to assume Yoda is using the Force to live that long. Sure his species may live a long time, but he does say (on his deathbed), "Strong I am in the force... but not that strong." This leads me to believe he was strong enough to prolong his life but inevitably death will come.

    IF they fled they probably didn't have any tech's with them, or if they did alot of what they knew was lost when the republic fleet ousted them. Those few thousand years probably had them rebuilding from such a catastrophic loss so that they were able to produce hyperdrives and weapons tech again. Merely conjecture but it does seem likely given that if you were dropped on a deserted island you probably wouldn't be able to make a working Air Conditioning unit much less a working boat engine.

     

    as to the Emperors Life span, he could just be pulling a Palpatine and replacing his personality on host bodies either cloned or grown or he just kills the other persons persona and takes over. He could also have put himself in cryogenic stasis while the Council of Lords ruled.

     

    As to Yoda, There is NO evidence that Yoda was prolonging his own life. Generally I would think that the Jedi would frown upon that as it would be evidence of selfishness rather than selflessness. To want to live is a good thing, to want to live forever is a sign of pride and superiority both of which are frowned upon by the Jedi and are generally considered the path to the dark side.

     

    1. It could be true that the Sith Emperor is just doing a Palpatine type thing, but then again, I'm not sure if cloning technology exists yet seeing as it is very complex. (I have not seen any cloning examples in this timeline, I'm not saying there aren't any. If there are, I would like to know what they are from; comic, game, w/e.) The way they word it is very straightforward though, "The Sith Emperor has been alive for over 1,400 years."

     

    2. There is also no evidence that Yoda's species is why he lives so long. The aforementioned quote I mentioned is all the proof I need to believe Yoda was using the force. Saying Yoda would've been frowned upon for prolonging his life is a little touchy. I mean come on, no one WANTS to die (Well, certain mentally-ill people), but Yoda was known as the wisest, most Jedi-like of Jedi, who followed the code, always offered guidance, always fought for the right cause and what was right. His reputation as a good individual superseded his prolonged life, because his prolonged life was merely giving him more opportunities to help the galaxy in any way he could. (This is my opinion, you can have yours.)

  10. Same for MMOs. All MMOs claim they have an endgame, but in reality its just hte same thing over and over. You raid and raid till you get your gear, then you PVP endlessly. Or you make another character, and do it all over.

    Part of the End game in WoW at least is seeing the story culminate in one giant fight at the end of the raiding. I mean if we have to view WoW as the model for any MMO considering that it is the most successful mmo, and if the gaming industry has learned anything it's that you repeat successes and you get more successes. In World of Warcraft the main game and expansion each have story lines attached to them. In the original WoW, there were several endgame storyline. There was a storyline having to do with the Dwarven princess being "captured" by the Dark Iron dwarves, a War between the Dark Iron Dwarves and their master Ragnaros against the Blackrock clan and the Chromatic dragonflight and their master Nefarian, a story about the chief adviser to the reagent of Stormwind being the black dragon queen Onyxia. The invasion of the Quaji. And finially the return of the scourge in their floating fortress Naxxaramas (which has since been moved back to Northrend to shore up defenses there as the alliance and horde attack).

     

    In Burning Crusade, there was a story about Kael'thas betraying his people and working for the Burning Legion, Lady Vasj (leader of the Naga) draining Zangermarsh to recreate the Well of the Ancients, and Illidan betraying the Legion and fortifying the Black Temple against their attack (which was lead by the Word boss Doomwalker) There was also a smaller storyline about trying to kill creatures that would grab black dragons and fling them into the spiked walls of Blades edge. Also Magtheradon trying to get free from imprisonment beneath Hellfire Citadel.

     

    Wrath of the Lich King is about the Alliance and Horde heading to Northrend to take on the Scourge, This assault is stopped cold at Wrathgate where plot twists ensue. Also the previously Missing king of Stormwind returns and after the events at Wrathgate Declares war upon the horde once again. There is also a WoW version of PETA verses a band of hunters. and thats as far as Iv'e gotten.

     

    Yes. Of course there is a "story" as you call it. Because with no "Structure" the game would be stupid and people wouldn't know what was going on. However, the depth of their "story" is not very deep. The RTS games were good, but WoW (Most MMOs I've ever played actually) idea of having a story is like, talking for a split second, then going and collecting some items or killing 30 of a certain monster then getting your reward. Sure, the endgame quests are probably pretty epic, but they HAD to make them that way, otherwise palyers would be mad that the storyline had a stupid ending.

    Blizzard at least has gotten MUCH better at story telling. About half way through leveling in WoW there is a storyline where relations between the two factions (horde and alliance) which had been on good terms since the death of Illidan in Outlands, fall out because a faction within the horde, or more specifically, within the Foresaken, uses a bioweapon that kills EVERYTHING at the Wrathgate leading to Icecrown (except the Lich King who is forced to retreat). The Foresaken Faction (the Royal Apothecary Society) then ousts the Undead from their Capital in the Undercity and both factions head to the Undercity to retake it. The Alliance wants to retake it to rebuild Lorderon and the surrounding areas for the displaced refugees living in the south, while the Horde just wants to restore Sylvanas and her followers to their seat of power. The Horde enters through the front gate, and fights its way down to the throne room where they kill Varimathras, while the Alliance takes the Sewer entrance and finds and kills the leader of the Apothecary's. Then the Alliance makes its way to the throne room where King Varian becomes enraged at thralls continued support of Sylvanas and attacks the two horde leaders and their bodyguard, Jaina Proudmoore intervenes and ports Varian away to Stormwind to stop any of the faction lords from dying.

     

    Through all of that the player is very much a part of it, He arrives at wrathgate after the Dragon's have immolated anything that the plague touched, and are sent to their leader where they eventually wind up helping in the assault on Undercity. It's REALLY well done (I've rarely had a single player experience that feels so epic or involved as that.) and it's at level 75/76 territory.

     

    Props to them then. But it probably won't happen in this new Star Wars MMO. I played Age of Conan because it was bragging the lore was going to be deep. Guess what? The LORE was deep to a certain degree, but most of the quests were the aforementioned examples.

  11. I must again respectfully disagree. IMO K1-K2 is not a catalyst. For example. Say Revan/Kreia/Exile DIDN'T know about the True Sith. Assume everything plays out how it does in the games (minus revan/exile leaving known space to fight True Sith, lets assume they don't know about them (whoa weird Deja Vu .). By the end of K1/K2, The Mandalorian War/Jedi Civil War are over with the Republic as the victors. 300 Years later, (according to Star Wars canon and this new MMO), the Sith would strike the Republic from seemingly nowhere. This was not effected in any way by the events of K1-K2. My point being, just because Revan knows theres a threat out there, doesn't mean the MMO that is taking place 300 years later is going to tie the story line up for KOTOR.

    Except that you yourself have said that Revan's journey into the unknown was what kept the Sith from attacking for those 300 years. Based on what Bio has said I'm guessing that Revan is going to play a HUGE role in the MMO.

     

    Yes, I have. BUT, what I stated in the quote that you... quoted... was an assumption. Which means its 50/50 chance it could be correct IF thats how it played out. I have also stated that Revan may NOT have fought the True Sith empire because maybe it was so strong at the time of K2 he simply had to wait for them to attack the Republic (even with Exile's help).

  12. How about after KotOR 2. And I mean right after KotOR 2.

     

     

    You mean, K3? If so, I agree entirely. But it needs more Bane. :lol::)

     

    Someone made a good point saying K3 could be possibly going on DURING the events of K2, but you play as Revan (I assume). That would be pretty decent. And you wouldn't have to worry about voice problems.

     

     

    More Bane? Blah. Bleh. Bluh. Bleck. Hmph.

     

    DOWN WITH BANE!

  13. They specifically say KotOR 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 rather than "content that would equal KotOR 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7".

     

    That doesn't exactly leave much question about the relationship to KotOR...

     

    They are bragging about how much you are going to be able to do in the MMO, not how it is a sequel.

    They are saying it IS a sequel.

     

    Wrong. The game has nothing to do with K1-K2. The only thing it has to do with K1-K2 is the Sith, but the Sith factor into almost anything Star Wars (unless you are talking about some lone bounty hunter who likes killing people for the Exchange, and then that gets into some cool stories :).) If it were a sequel, they would've said something like, "The fantastic ending the KOTOR story! Watch what happens!"

    the think is they are using the events of Kotor1 as a catalyst to get things moving for TOR. They are also going to use everything that Revan did as a catapult to make the story work. Revan will probably be a mythological figure in TOR with every jedi being called "the next Revan" and sith called "the next Sith Lord" Admittedly I hate the fact its going to end up like that, one would think that they'd revere those who fought in the Sith War more than the smaller Mandalorian and Jedi Civil. It does seem like they are taking a page from the great sith war in that Courecant is getting sacked (which did happen in the great sith war)

     

    I must again respectfully disagree. IMO K1-K2 is not a catalyst. For example. Say Revan/Kreia/Exile DIDN'T know about the True Sith. Assume everything plays out how it does in the games (minus revan/exile leaving known space to fight True Sith, lets assume they don't know about them (whoa weird Deja Vu .). By the end of K1/K2, The Mandalorian War/Jedi Civil War are over with the Republic as the victors. 300 Years later, (according to Star Wars canon and this new MMO), the Sith would strike the Republic from seemingly nowhere. This was not effected in any way by the events of K1-K2. My point being, just because Revan knows theres a threat out there, doesn't mean the MMO that is taking place 300 years later is going to tie the story line up for KOTOR.

  14. Same for MMOs. All MMOs claim they have an endgame, but in reality its just hte same thing over and over. You raid and raid till you get your gear, then you PVP endlessly. Or you make another character, and do it all over.

    Part of the End game in WoW at least is seeing the story culminate in one giant fight at the end of the raiding. I mean if we have to view WoW as the model for any MMO considering that it is the most successful mmo, and if the gaming industry has learned anything it's that you repeat successes and you get more successes. In World of Warcraft the main game and expansion each have story lines attached to them. In the original WoW, there were several endgame storyline. There was a storyline having to do with the Dwarven princess being "captured" by the Dark Iron dwarves, a War between the Dark Iron Dwarves and their master Ragnaros against the Blackrock clan and the Chromatic dragonflight and their master Nefarian, a story about the chief adviser to the reagent of Stormwind being the black dragon queen Onyxia. The invasion of the Quaji. And finially the return of the scourge in their floating fortress Naxxaramas (which has since been moved back to Northrend to shore up defenses there as the alliance and horde attack).

     

    In Burning Crusade, there was a story about Kael'thas betraying his people and working for the Burning Legion, Lady Vasj (leader of the Naga) draining Zangermarsh to recreate the Well of the Ancients, and Illidan betraying the Legion and fortifying the Black Temple against their attack (which was lead by the Word boss Doomwalker) There was also a smaller storyline about trying to kill creatures that would grab black dragons and fling them into the spiked walls of Blades edge. Also Magtheradon trying to get free from imprisonment beneath Hellfire Citadel.

     

    Wrath of the Lich King is about the Alliance and Horde heading to Northrend to take on the Scourge, This assault is stopped cold at Wrathgate where plot twists ensue. Also the previously Missing king of Stormwind returns and after the events at Wrathgate Declares war upon the horde once again. There is also a WoW version of PETA verses a band of hunters. and thats as far as Iv'e gotten.

     

    Yes. Of course there is a "story" as you call it. Because with no "Structure" the game would be stupid and people wouldn't know what was going on. However, the depth of their "story" is not very deep. The RTS games were good, but WoW (Most MMOs I've ever played actually) idea of having a story is like, talking for a split second, then going and collecting some items or killing 30 of a certain monster then getting your reward. Sure, the endgame quests are probably pretty epic, but they HAD to make them that way, otherwise palyers would be mad that the storyline had a stupid ending.

  15. 1. Since we still don't know Yoda's species, there is no basis that I know of to suggest that he used the force to prolong his longevity. Maybe his species - whomever they are - simply live that long. Besides, if life could be prolonged like that, why haven't we seen more masters of the order do it?

     

    2. I assume the Sith master who survived the Great Hyperspace War you speak of is Naga Sadow. He did survive to escape and form a temple on the fourth moon of Yavin, and after that his fate is pretty much unknown. We know that Freedon Nadd somehow learned from Sadow 600 years later, and some sources suggest Sadow entered suspended animation, though the point is unclear. Sadow's ultimate fate is a bit sketchy. IIRC, the New Essential Guide to Characters says that Nadd killed Sadow, yet it's also established that Nadd made himself king of Onderon because he could not become dark lord while his master lived (and Nadd's teachings led to the Great Sith War 400 years later, since Nadd's force ghost taught Exar Kun the secrets of the dark side). Sadow could be the Sith emperor, I suppose, though that would again require a retcon removing the bit that he died by Nadd's hand. Surviving for a long time is not unheard of, though, especially among the sith. For example, a key point of the comic book crossover series requires that the fallen jedi Celeste Morne goes into suspended animation during the KotOR era's Mandalorian Wars only to be awakened 4000 years later by Darth Vader by using an oubliette created by the Sith Lord Dreypa (whomever he was). So we know that the Sith have that sort of technology. Indeed, Haazen uses a similar device to put jedi master Krynda Draay in a similar device (a major plot point of the KotOR comic book).

     

    Could Revan and Exile still be out there using similar devices? Well, I suppose we can't rule it out, but then what would be the point? If they're both going to appear again in TOR as saviors of the Republic, then why bother to advance the timeline by 300 years? It seems to me the whole point of advancing time 300 years is to make sure Revan and exile are dead so there will be no need to deal with them except possibly as long dead historic characters.

     

    1. This could be true. But I am going to safely assume that if a Sith can prolong his life (when Palpatines brutal Dark Side powers DECAYED his body rapidly in contrast) then a Light Side force sensitive could learn the secrets as well. Then again, it may be really hard for a light side user to find out how to do it in comparison to a dark side user. But, Revan and the Exile are two of the most powerful Jedi every, and Revan wasn't always Light Side. Its possible he learned how to channel whatever abilities he needed to prolong his life (Much Like Mace Windu's lightsaber form, that draws on his aggressive feelings and converts it into light.).

     

    2. I would doubt this is Naga Sadow. They want this Sith Emperor to be Mysterious, and already having a name to him would be not so mysterious. If it was Naga Sadow, I simply think they would've said, "Naga Sadow as attacked the Republic with his Sith empire!" rather than, "A Sith empire lead by a Mysterious Sith Lord has attacked the Republic." Afterall, there would be no point to hiding his identity if it was Sadow, MMOs don't focus on plot, they focus on gameplay, and very rarely do you see "Plot twists" in an MMO.

     

    3. I didn't say they were going to appear in TOR. I said K3 would probably take place some time AFTER TOR (maybe I screwed up the wording, I'll check.). Afterall, you can't END an MMO. Otherwise... lol... well... I think you understand why there will never be an event in the MMO where one side wins. Why bother to advance the timeline 300 years? There are a few reasons, but I can't be too sure on all of them, afterall, I am not writing everything new for Star Wars.

     

    a) Revan and the Exile left known space to fight the True Sith. At the time, they were undisturbed for millenia. It is possible that Revan and the Exile could NOT defeat this Sith empire because it had been this undisturbed and this strong. It is possible that they had to wait for them to attack the Republic, and then strike, so that the Sith Empire could've have been weakened, watered down, and confused (if Revan and Exile decided to attack.).

     

    b) To tie in the ending of the KOTOR Plot line, and be able to make some money off an MMO as well. I am not arguing that LA and Bioware are making an MMO to make cash, afterall, most companies want to make cash. Very rarely do you see a company not care about cash and care more about their products. However, if they wait 300 years, the Republic and Jedi could be rebuilt, and there could be a possibility for a conflict between the Sith and the Republic/Jedi. This allows them to make TWO games, the MMO, which will make lots of cash, and another company can produce K3, which ends the KOTOR plot. (K3 however would have no impact on the MMO, considering Star Wars Galactic History is written AFTER the events of TOR as well. If people got angry that someone beat the Sith Empire in TOR in a game that takes place AFTER the date TOR takes place, then they are very very dumb. This is considering that the Sith Empire in TOR HAS to be Defeated at Some point in time, considering it is not around during the movies.)

     

    Excuse the bad grammar in some areas. When I start thinking I type fast and don't care about anything else. :(

    Millenia? the Sith Empire of the Great Hyperspace War has been found and is now under the jurisdiction of the Republic. That's where Korribon comes from. Ziost needs to make an appearance, but most of the Empire from back then has been taken. Shadow was last seen (I think) on Yavin IV with the remains of his body guard that he ended up mutating into the Massassi Exar Kun used to preserve his spirit for the 4ish thousand years until he was kicked out by Lukes new trainees.

     

    Also I have yet to see ANYTHING that shows that the Darkside is able to keep people alive for along time, or lightside for that matter. Turn you into a spirit that comes back to teach/seduce students of the other side? sure but not survive for stupid amounts of time.

     

    1. That is why the remnants of the defeated Sith Empire (From the Great Hypserpace War) fled even further into unknown territory to avoid complete and utter destruction. They've had a few thousand years alone.

     

    2. You do now. The Sith Emperor has been alive since Great Hyperspace War till 300 years after the events of KOTOR II. Its possible its more than one person but this is not likely considering hte wording being used.

     

    3. I think its safe to assume Yoda is using the Force to live that long. Sure his species may live a long time, but he does say (on his deathbed), "Strong I am in the force... but not that strong." This leads me to believe he was strong enough to prolong his life but inevitably death will come.

  16. They specifically say KotOR 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 rather than "content that would equal KotOR 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7".

     

    That doesn't exactly leave much question about the relationship to KotOR...

     

    They are bragging about how much you are going to be able to do in the MMO, not how it is a sequel.

    They are saying it IS a sequel.

     

    Wrong. The game has nothing to do with K1-K2. The only thing it has to do with K1-K2 is the Sith, but the Sith factor into almost anything Star Wars (unless you are talking about some lone bounty hunter who likes killing people for the Exchange, and then that gets into some cool stories :wub:.) If it were a sequel, they would've said something like, "The fantastic ending the KOTOR story! Watch what happens!"

  17. Just because they are going to playing a second game other than the MMO, does not mean they will drop their subscription MMO. Thats like saying, "Its either you play the MMO, or you play single-players, you are not capable of doing both." I am an example. I am not a special case, I am a common person. I have a constant subscription to my favorite MMO PlanetSide, but I rarely play it maybe 5 times a month. Other than that I am playing a plethora of other games.

     

    Well, you might play both games, but people like me are examples too. I like the single-player aspect of KotOR because it focuses on better plot IMHO, but LA/Bioware think that if they can get me over to the MMO, they can make more money of people like me, because I'll have to pay the subscription fee.

     

    However, if there is a single-player game, then there is no way I'll do that, and so K3 and TOR effectively become competing product for me - both are RPGs, both are Star Wars, both are set in the Old Republic era, both focus on the threat from the true Sith to the Republic... But I'll take K3 over the MMO any day, and LA makes more money if I play the MMO. Therefore they won't make K3, because that way I'll have no choice but to play the MMO if I want to play in the Old Republic era. You might buy and play both, but I wouldn't, and so potential sales are still hurt by what would in my case have to be considered a competing product from the same company, and that product it also cost money for LA to develop.

     

    Now, granted, I'm not the best example, because K3 or not, there is no way I'll be paying to play the MMO. None. If subscription was free, I might consider it, but since I'm supremely confident it won't be, it's just not going to happen. But there are those who'll be enticed to play the MMO because it's going to be the only KotOR-era game around. People who are like me, except that they might consider paying the subscription fee. LA will do whatever it takes to herd those people over to the MMO, because they can make more MMOney on game sale plus subscription fee that way than they can from single-player K3 which gives them just game sale profits alone. Hence, no K3 for us... :wub:

     

    But you have stated yourself in other threads that you are not a fan of MMOs. Which is why the MMO does not appeal to people like you. The Singleplayer game does, thus, if they make a K3 and the MMO, they target the people who like EVERYTHING, not just one thing. Therefore, they have won on both fronts. (I think it was you who said you will not even try the MMO, because you don't like MMOs, you and a few others. Correct me if I am wrong).

    There is a larger market for multiplayer games on the market now. Most games are laughed out of the building if they don't have a multiplayer feature. Also one of the draw backs of a single player experience is that you do a certain task once and you never go back to it, thus once you achieve everything in the game you have absolutely no reason to go back and play more, MMO's are built around continuing the experience. Also a few of your druthers have been remedied in Wrath of the Lich King, namely that in certain areas and during certain events you are running around in one of MANY versions of the zone. In the Death Knight starting area, you go through about 8 separate phases that show the rise of the scourge as it wipes out a Scarlet Crusade village. There are also versions of Stormwind and Orgrimmar and Undercity that are phased for certain missions. The biggest problem that the game has had is that they didn't give a seperate instance to each person on that quest. That would require to many resources but instead they've got a situation where you could walk in and not even see the plot points because somebody else finished it and it hasn't reset yet. Works wonderful for phased zones that you go through while wiping something out.

     

    Same for MMOs. All MMOs claim they have an endgame, but in reality its just hte same thing over and over. You raid and raid till you get your gear, then you PVP endlessly. Or you make another character, and do it all over.

  18. Just because they are going to playing a second game other than the MMO, does not mean they will drop their subscription MMO. Thats like saying, "Its either you play the MMO, or you play single-players, you are not capable of doing both." I am an example. I am not a special case, I am a common person. I have a constant subscription to my favorite MMO PlanetSide, but I rarely play it maybe 5 times a month. Other than that I am playing a plethora of other games.

     

    Well, you might play both games, but people like me are examples too. I like the single-player aspect of KotOR because it focuses on better plot IMHO, but LA/Bioware think that if they can get me over to the MMO, they can make more money of people like me, because I'll have to pay the subscription fee.

     

    However, if there is a single-player game, then there is no way I'll do that, and so K3 and TOR effectively become competing product for me - both are RPGs, both are Star Wars, both are set in the Old Republic era, both focus on the threat from the true Sith to the Republic... But I'll take K3 over the MMO any day, and LA makes more money if I play the MMO. Therefore they won't make K3, because that way I'll have no choice but to play the MMO if I want to play in the Old Republic era. You might buy and play both, but I wouldn't, and so potential sales are still hurt by what would in my case have to be considered a competing product from the same company, and that product it also cost money for LA to develop.

     

    Now, granted, I'm not the best example, because K3 or not, there is no way I'll be paying to play the MMO. None. If subscription was free, I might consider it, but since I'm supremely confident it won't be, it's just not going to happen. But there are those who'll be enticed to play the MMO because it's going to be the only KotOR-era game around. People who are like me, except that they might consider paying the subscription fee. LA will do whatever it takes to herd those people over to the MMO, because they can make more MMOney on game sale plus subscription fee that way than they can from single-player K3 which gives them just game sale profits alone. Hence, no K3 for us... :(

     

    But you have stated yourself in other threads that you are not a fan of MMOs. Which is why the MMO does not appeal to people like you. The Singleplayer game does, thus, if they make a K3 and the MMO, they target the people who like EVERYTHING, not just one thing. Therefore, they have won on both fronts. (I think it was you who said you will not even try the MMO, because you don't like MMOs, you and a few others. Correct me if I am wrong).

  19. 1. Since we still don't know Yoda's species, there is no basis that I know of to suggest that he used the force to prolong his longevity. Maybe his species - whomever they are - simply live that long. Besides, if life could be prolonged like that, why haven't we seen more masters of the order do it?

     

    2. I assume the Sith master who survived the Great Hyperspace War you speak of is Naga Sadow. He did survive to escape and form a temple on the fourth moon of Yavin, and after that his fate is pretty much unknown. We know that Freedon Nadd somehow learned from Sadow 600 years later, and some sources suggest Sadow entered suspended animation, though the point is unclear. Sadow's ultimate fate is a bit sketchy. IIRC, the New Essential Guide to Characters says that Nadd killed Sadow, yet it's also established that Nadd made himself king of Onderon because he could not become dark lord while his master lived (and Nadd's teachings led to the Great Sith War 400 years later, since Nadd's force ghost taught Exar Kun the secrets of the dark side). Sadow could be the Sith emperor, I suppose, though that would again require a retcon removing the bit that he died by Nadd's hand. Surviving for a long time is not unheard of, though, especially among the sith. For example, a key point of the comic book crossover series requires that the fallen jedi Celeste Morne goes into suspended animation during the KotOR era's Mandalorian Wars only to be awakened 4000 years later by Darth Vader by using an oubliette created by the Sith Lord Dreypa (whomever he was). So we know that the Sith have that sort of technology. Indeed, Haazen uses a similar device to put jedi master Krynda Draay in a similar device (a major plot point of the KotOR comic book).

     

    Could Revan and Exile still be out there using similar devices? Well, I suppose we can't rule it out, but then what would be the point? If they're both going to appear again in TOR as saviors of the Republic, then why bother to advance the timeline by 300 years? It seems to me the whole point of advancing time 300 years is to make sure Revan and exile are dead so there will be no need to deal with them except possibly as long dead historic characters.

     

    1. This could be true. But I am going to safely assume that if a Sith can prolong his life (when Palpatines brutal Dark Side powers DECAYED his body rapidly in contrast) then a Light Side force sensitive could learn the secrets as well. Then again, it may be really hard for a light side user to find out how to do it in comparison to a dark side user. But, Revan and the Exile are two of the most powerful Jedi every, and Revan wasn't always Light Side. Its possible he learned how to channel whatever abilities he needed to prolong his life (Much Like Mace Windu's lightsaber form, that draws on his aggressive feelings and converts it into light.).

     

    2. I would doubt this is Naga Sadow. They want this Sith Emperor to be Mysterious, and already having a name to him would be not so mysterious. If it was Naga Sadow, I simply think they would've said, "Naga Sadow as attacked the Republic with his Sith empire!" rather than, "A Sith empire lead by a Mysterious Sith Lord has attacked the Republic." Afterall, there would be no point to hiding his identity if it was Sadow, MMOs don't focus on plot, they focus on gameplay, and very rarely do you see "Plot twists" in an MMO.

     

    3. I didn't say they were going to appear in TOR. I said K3 would probably take place some time AFTER TOR (maybe I screwed up the wording, I'll check.). Afterall, you can't END an MMO. Otherwise... lol... well... I think you understand why there will never be an event in the MMO where one side wins. Why bother to advance the timeline 300 years? There are a few reasons, but I can't be too sure on all of them, afterall, I am not writing everything new for Star Wars.

     

    a) Revan and the Exile left known space to fight the True Sith. At the time, they were undisturbed for millenia. It is possible that Revan and the Exile could NOT defeat this Sith empire because it had been this undisturbed and this strong. It is possible that they had to wait for them to attack the Republic, and then strike, so that the Sith Empire could've have been weakened, watered down, and confused (if Revan and Exile decided to attack.).

     

    b) To tie in the ending of the KOTOR Plot line, and be able to make some money off an MMO as well. I am not arguing that LA and Bioware are making an MMO to make cash, afterall, most companies want to make cash. Very rarely do you see a company not care about cash and care more about their products. However, if they wait 300 years, the Republic and Jedi could be rebuilt, and there could be a possibility for a conflict between the Sith and the Republic/Jedi. This allows them to make TWO games, the MMO, which will make lots of cash, and another company can produce K3, which ends the KOTOR plot. (K3 however would have no impact on the MMO, considering Star Wars Galactic History is written AFTER the events of TOR as well. If people got angry that someone beat the Sith Empire in TOR in a game that takes place AFTER the date TOR takes place, then they are very very dumb. This is considering that the Sith Empire in TOR HAS to be Defeated at Some point in time, considering it is not around during the movies.)

     

    Excuse the bad grammar in some areas. When I start thinking I type fast and don't care about anything else. :(

  20. 1. KOTOR and the MMO draw on different markets as well. KOTOR III would be singleplayer story-telling experience, whereas an MMO is going to be an MMO.

     

    2. People will deal with someone qualified voicing Revan/Exile. They had to deal with it with EVERY SUPER HERO from comic books, and not only did they have to deal with the voices of these super heroes, they had to deal with people actually ACTING like them. People are still die-hard fans.

     

    3. Going back to our previous argument on the negative impact of the MMO. KOTOR III Draws on an entirely different market. There are some people (like myself) who play MMOs and singleplayers, but there are lot of people who are strictly either one. And releasing K3 wouldn't make people quit the MMO, it would probably make them play it less. This wouldn't matter considering you pay for a month of play time.

     

    1. I disagree completely. Both are CRPGs. The difference between an MMORPG and a SPCRPG is small to most people, and most probably to those exploring the market. Both are about creating a character and building that character with a level or skill based system. A different market would be if one was RTS like Empire at War or FPS like Battlefront.

     

    2. Keep in mind that just Revan's voice for "ready" comments in KotOR1 was debated severely. It's probably no accident the exile is utterly quiet throughout TSL.

     

    3. And if they play less, they might not pay the MMOney for a few months. That's exactly the reason there won't be a K3. You don't oversaturate the market. That's the reason LA gave for releasing only so many Star Wars games per year.

     

    1. Just because both are RPGs does not mean both are the same type of game. MMO and Singleplayer have very many differences. True, in both you create a character and build him up through levels and what not, but that is the ONLY similarity.

     

    MMOs are all about achieving things, getting better gear, gaining exp for the next level so you are one level closer to the endgame, which is supposed (supposed) to be the funnest aspect. Plot is second in line in MMOs. Besides, you can't have groundbreaking plot in an MMO and feel good about it when 100,000 other people have done the same quest and are running around. Plus if you do a quest, and then someone else does it, it kind of invalidates the whole point of you doing it, considering the problem still exists because the person who issues the quest is still there. Singleplayer puts plot first (judging by the type of singleplayer game, Singleplayer RPGs usually put plot first, unless its like oblivion, but everything you do in that game has some backstory it it, but thats besides the point. There are people who will never play MMOs and there are people who strongly dislike Singleplayer games, IMO, it still appeals to different markets. MMO Market... WAY different that SP marketing. WAY different.

     

    2. This isn't an argument. I don't know much about the guy who voiced Revan in K1.

     

    3. I disagree. Just because they are going to playing a second game other than the MMO, does not mean they will drop their subscription MMO. Thats like saying, "Its either you play the MMO, or you play single-players, you are not capable of doing both." I am an example. I am not a special case, I am a common person. I have a constant subscription to my favorite MMO PlanetSide, but I rarely play it maybe 5 times a month. Other than that I am playing a plethora of other games.

  21. I took a look at this post: http://forums.obsidian.net/index.php?showtopic=51279

     

    I stumbled around to clicking on the Link. (I had read the page before, but then realized I should check it out again since the Sith in the MMO are the True Sith).

     

    It says that this Sith Empire survived the Great Hyperspace war, and fled. He used dark powers to prolong his life well beyond what a normal life is (by the time of the MMO he is over 1,400 years old.) This would lead us to say one thing, "Well, if he fled during the Hyperspace War, and he is a live during the mmo millenia later, then Revan and the Exile must have obviously have failed.

     

    I (being the stubborn b@st@rd you guys know me to be) refused to believe this. So I took a look at the Star Wars time line according to Wookieepedia. Now, you will have to read the rest of what I have to say to understand this. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_galactic_history

     

    There is still no name to this Sith Emperor anywhere. There is no point on this time line that mentions his death. There isn't even a point on this time line that mentions the TRUE SITH INVASION. The two things it does mention that relate to the MMO however, is the Sacking of Coruscant, and the treaty of Coruscant. According to the MMO FAQ, the True Sith sacked Coruscant forcing the treat to end the war, and an uneasy cold war started. This is the galaxy that you play in as in the MMO.

     

    Now, despite all the hype built around this MMO, this whole thing is a relatively small event (IMO) in relation to the plot lines of the KOTOR games.

     

    Is it possible that a possible KOTOR III game will take place some years after the time of the MMO, that sees the end of this Sith Empire? Perhaps, Revan and the Exile, together they saw that the Sith Empire was too strong to defeat alone. Perhaps they used some other methods of prolonging their lives (It can be done as light side, Yoda lived for 900 years.) in preparation and planning on how they were actually going to help the Republic in the future. If you factor in the math, the Sith Emperor had to prolong his life over a thousand years, whereas Revan and the Exile (assuming they were in their 30s) would've only have had to prolong their lives 300-400 years, depending on when this Sith Empire in the MMO is actually going to be defeated. Maybe Revan and the Exile are going to be the ones who down this threat, and end it so that there is thousands of years of relative peace within Republic Space, until they strike again in the movies. That would ex out the whole, "Revan didn't do that much if the Sith invaded 300 years later" crap. Of course, this is a theory at best, and you cannibalistic badgers are probably going to pick it apart piece by piece.

     

    It says Revan never returned from the Unknown Regions. The Exile is never mentioned, but I would assume he never returned either. This would lead to a) they were killed and defeated; or b) They are still planning and waiting for the right time to strike this Sith Emperor and end his reign and the power of the Sith. The page on wookieepedia even says the Sith Emperor (after the Treat of Coruscant) has left command to his dark lords, and sought out to accomplish his own mysterious goals. What is worrying him so much to stop the attack on the Republic (If they sacked coruscant, why would the Sith make a treaty and halt their offensive? Its not very Sith-Like at all.) and leave his command and go pursue something? IMO, there are two very powerful people out there seeking to end his evil rule.

     

    I mean come on, it will eventually be defeated. We have clues to its defeat.

     

    1. The Jedi in the movies are ignorant of the few Sith there are left in the galaxy, meaning some time ago the threat was wiped out.

     

    2. Mace Windu tells Palpatine in his office during the duel, "The oppression of the Sith will NEVER return! You.. HAVE LOST!" This would imply that the Sith were defeated.

     

    3. We don't hear anything about a strong Sith Empire in the movies, or hundreds of years before.

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