[How to play Evil?]

Hello!

I would like to ask others on their perspective of playing Evil...I am kind of planning to do an evil playthrough, plan a character - his motives - morality and goal, but I always bump into a very basic issue :

 

- How do you explain an evil ( not necessarily a douche, but evil is considered egoistical at least ) accepting all those sidequests?

I just can't make up an excuse, apart from the usual be manipulative evil that just pretends helping people. My problem with that approach is that it tends to be quite similar to being good, so I am looking for a better alternative.

This topic is more about roleplaying than actual mechanics in games. I am just curious of those who actually prefer playing Evil - How do you roleplay accepting all those sidequests?

Cheers!

[The Pillars of Eternity No Reload Challenge]

Totally off-topic. Today I was thinking what if a no-reload challenge would go over the boundaries of 1 franchise...

1 character - BG1 - BG2 - PoE - PoE 2. ( The List can be as infinite and unqiue with different games as you want I guess )

If you die....back to BG1.

( Classes are limited to the ones that are present in all games )

I have to try that 

[The Pillars of Eternity No Reload Challenge]

I don't recommend going to White March too early if you are unexperienced. Especially on POTD. 

There is a specific enemy type that will eat you for breakfast there if you don't know where to avoid them.

[The Pillars of Eternity No Reload Challenge]

Good luck to all the no-reloaders!

I can't wait to join myself on this challenge, but first I must beat my very first Baldur's Gate saga playthrough.

In a sense it's a great practice for the Expert Mode - Trial of Irons PoE run I plan to join here ^^

[Any interest in starting a No Reload Challenge?]

I am by no means a veteran, I am very new in fact! - I would call myself an avid roleplayer, even too much for my own good.

I am still experimenting on the "perfect" RP way of playing these games, that feels the best. The eternal struggle of roleplaying - powergaming - fun is something I can't balance well yet.

On the BG forums I am mostly a reader ^^ In fact I just started my very first baldur's gate playthrough recently( yes for the first time haha ) - that's why I recognized you, as I read more about the game than I played!

[Any interest in starting a No Reload Challenge?]

I think the no reload challenge is a great idea especially with the same rules as in Baldur's Gate forums. I would be up for participating ^^

Welcome @Alesia_BH !

 

[Respec in CRPGs - Am I alone?]

Hello fellow forumers!

Prologue:

 

I have been playing a new CRPG called Pathfinder: Kingmaker extensively recently, and I am really liking it, I spent a lot of time making builds and testing characters and roleplaying them on top of it. It's definitely a game that needs lots of work but I think it's really enjoyable and does things right.

The game get's lots of criticism and people are asking for features in it. This is where the topic comes in. One of the features people are asking for is : Respecialization - at any point in the game, that can change even your class.

Topic: Respec in CRPGs - Am I alone?

 

(Clarification: The topic is about FULL respecialization that allows you to change your characters Attributes and even Class later on in the game, any time.)

I've been discussing this request for respecialization with many people, and I quickly recieved lots of feedback that I am a minority in not wanting somthing like that in the game, especially if it's optional.

As you probably have guessed I am against any feature like this in heavy RPGs - I'll get to my own reasons below - but what surprised me more is that most of my reasons were recieved as "unreasonable" and silly to most of the people I've discussed it with.

So here I am, as a last effort, I'd like to share my thoughts and listen to what you all have to say about it aswell, so that I can change my view perhaps on the matter.

My Opinion:

 

So as I have mentioned I am greatly against anything like that, as I think it overall just degrades the game in different aspects and encourages people to play in a way that these games were probably not designed for. ( I understand this is thin-ice I am walking here, everyone should play how they enjoy games most importantly, but I think there is a point where some changes greatly affect an experience for a game. )

Game Design: From development point of view first of all I think, allowing the player to respecialize at any point puts a great focus on the fact that not every part of the game has to be properly balanced and designed as the game allows players to change their build at any point. This specifically comes to my mind in situations like, not every class or character being able to survive the lower levels of the game or specific difficulty even. With respec this is easily bypassed by just starting as a EASIERCLASSNAME and surviving the early sequence to later respecialize into HARDERCLASSNAME that is significantly stronger when it reaches higher level, such as Wizards. This brings me immediately to the next point that is :

 

The Journey: I think it is very important in RPGs, just like in real life, the journey to an achievement is just as important if not more important than the achievement itself. If you can just avoid the hard part of a path, to just walk back onto it when it fruits - removes the importance of the journey that is fighting for becoming strong. I personally think it also degrades the accomplishment itself, as it becomes significantly easier to reach that point after that. While you can still say that you have reached that feat fair and square, it still leaves a sour taste behind that, it's way easier now to achieve that.
 

Builds/Guides: This is a short and not so important part - it's more so for forums and communities. By adding a feature such as respecialization into the game, it also makes it "mainstream" in a way and more builds/guides will include respecialization in it, this way removing lots of theorycrafting and the joy of actually making builds that bypass the difficulty of not being able to respecialize. Less and less builds will bother focusing on not using respec, since the game allows you to do it way easier now. Bringing up issues with your builds will just prompt answers as "Well just play as EASIERCLASSNAME and respec into HARDERCLASSNAME later!". My personal opinion for this in CRPGs: If it can't level from 1-X level without respec, I just feel it's not as enjoyable.

Roleplaying: This is an important part I think. I like to roleplay and min-max all the time, moreso I usually combine the two. Make a good story, follow really cool restrictions to my characters lore and min-max and powergame that. But somehow respecialization is just a complete immersion break, you can just delete everything your character has been and make up a completely new identity, it's just everything that is against roleplaying I think. If I want a new class, I multi-class into it and accept the consiquences and penalties that come with it. If I have a new idea, I make a new identity and a new character for it. Each character is a unique journey. These are RPGs afterall.

Mentality: I think from all my points this is probably the most subjective part. For me respecialization in games is killing the "effort" part of games, where if you come up with a good idea you have to still work for it to reach it. Your mistakes matter and thus future attempts will make you more cautious and research more each part of your builds and playthrough. Having to fully consider your whole playthroughs for each character makes you respect the whole content in the game aswell instead of just focusing on later parts where the builds matter more. I consider full respecialization as a cheat really that is completely accepted now by the gaming community, but I understand that's just how it all evolved, so I  am trying to train myself to accept it more aswell.

Why does this all matter to me? I just feel more and more features are added into games that are making them less complex and less enjoyable to achieve goals and enjoy hard content. Maybe I am just having a bad day, who knows?!

Final Thoughts: Well here we are. If you have read my thoughts I thank you for it, I appreciate it, I really do! Please do not think of anything I said as arrogant, that is the last thing I wanted to sound like. I just wanted to share how I feel, and I am interested what others think about this so I can learn to cope more with my feelings about it. Now I ask you to share your thoughts with me, as I am really interested to hear what others have to say about this!

PS.: It's quite a massive post so excuse me if I have made errors! I hope I gathered my thoughts well structured.

Thank you!
 

[Evil Playthrough- Custom or Story Companions?]

Yeah I know the way most describe helping people can be considering manipulative Evil, but In games I simply consider that good as you are helping people and they thank you for it, the Evil manipulation part is most of the time just your own Roleplaying, very rarely an option in the game.

Video games limit you on that I think. So I guess when I speak in Pillars of Eternity terms....A cruel character. Most companions dislike that afaik.

Doing quests and choosing the Cruel options most of the time, or options that end with death.

[Evil Playthrough- Custom or Story Companions?]

Sziasztok! ( Hi everyone in hungarian   )

I would like to turn to you for help, as I am planning to start an Evil Playthrough for the game. On my first play, I felt that story companions fairly limit your choices as they always react negatively on your evil deeds...it bothered me.

My question now would be that, can you play with story companions without them becoming too unhappy?( I don't understand negative relationship mechanics ) Or am I better off with custom adventurers who will follow me dead on into danger?

Thank you for the help!

[Ydwin: Is She Really A Fampyr?]

My only question is....how is it pronounced?

Is it Vampire?

F-ampire?

Fampyr?

Vampyr?

Whenever I talked about them, it was awkward 

[Possible to change MC model into companion godlike models?]

Thanks for the attempt Boeroer! Appreciate it!

Too bad really...Vatnir's Ending Godlike is badass really. Feels such a waste you can't use that race.

[Good Vatnir build?]

Anyone has experimented and/or found good builds for Vatnir?

Would be very interested in what you found 

[Possible to change MC model into companion godlike models?]

Hello!

I am curious, haven't found anything about this so far, but has anyone tried or knows a way with a mod or savegame editor perhaps to make your main character look like the unplayable godlikes?

Use Tekehu's model for example.

[Which faction did you side with before sailing to Ukaizo and why?]

I sided with the Vailians.

 

They seemed to be the most reasonable choice, as the Director  seemed like a genuine nice person who had a healthy conscience. They would grind Adra whether or not you side with them, so that was not a deciding factor for me. Biggest point for them is : They were not some pretentious, I think I am superior then others douchebags.

 

Just humans trying to make profit, and if they are also doing some good while making money, I can look away from them grinding adra. Obviously I am biased towards them, but I just can't stand the other factions, it was an easy choice for me. ( Also that accent is amazing )

 

Spoiler - The game ending scene resulted in a really positive outcome for the Deadfire so I am super happy I sided with them.

 

[Can you lose companion for siding a faction?]

After finishing my own playthrough, I can confirm. I sided with Vailians, I romanced Maia, maxed reputation with her and she still left. RIP. ( Screw the rauatai anyway )

[The Ship combat thread]

I'm pondering writting a negative review of this game just due to how bad ship to ship combat is. It feels so badly implemented and out of place in game like this.

 

I had fights where I would chase the enemy ship for 10 turns or more, trying to hit it, missing, going left, going right, and then after 15minutes instead of trying to sink them, they board you and you are 4v20 and die in 2 seconds...like who thought this system through, who though this would be fun?

 

This game so far is miles belowed PoE. Right now I'd almost call it a bad game.

 

Some other irks:

- hate the narrator

- hate the stupid english-italian accent

- hate the inclusion of unknown words that you constanly have to hover to see what the NPC is talking about

- hate the rations ship system

Funny Life. 3 out of 4 you listed is some of my favourite parts of the game.

 

Valian accent is absolutely glorious to listen to.

Unknown words just increase the immersion for the world for me to a next level. Wish more games did this.

Narrator is really nice to listen to aswell

 

The whole Valian language added to the game is just such a great immersion increasing RPG element really, you feel finally like you are talking to another culture, instead of everyone talking english.

[Main Story way too short for an RPG! I am very disspointed...]

I don't think the length is the problem, rather that the Deadfires and the Mainstory barely connects really. I felt the faction power-struggle was more of a main story than the main story itself.

Eothas storyline felt as a side-mission and choosing which faction you ally with was the main mission for me, and that is what felt weird.

[(Spoiler) My absolute biggest gripe with PoE2: Seemingly unfocused narrative]

I feel the game was more about the Deadfires and it's factions, rather than the main story. Almost felt like the main story was just an excuse. I liked the main story, despite being super short and I felt disconnected from it lots of times, but it was very short and sudden, I didn't feel tension at all, not even at the end. The final boss was not even someone you cared about, it was just a stupid stone guardian.

There was no sensible connection like in PoE1 where Waidwen's legacy was a main point throughout the game and everything just connected. The story was not evolved enough to feel myself invested in it, to care about what will happen. To feel angry at the villain or cheer for someone, it just severly lacked emotions.

My main reaction is that, because of the lots of islands every quest was just a new situation you had to solve, there were no long questlines with meaningful stories, everything was just a small task you need to solve, and that felt wrong to me, especially because the world itself was really immersive.

They created an amazing world with great factions, but forgot to fill it with life.

[Anyone else kind of regretting multiclassing?]

Please, the game is already easy on a broken level, multiclasses can be godlike unkillable characters. No, multiclassing is fine and no need for buffs certainly, if you prefer single class that's fine, but asking for 2 skill points is ridiculous.

The whole point of their idea is, that single-class and multi-class should be balanced so you feel the way you feel. Debating which one is better. The game does say multi-classing is not for beginners, you need to have an idea of what you are doing to get their full advantage.

 

 

I love the multiclassing. How can anyone believe they suck? A cipher with Carnage? A tank with Riposte? Anything with Faith and Conviction? So many possibilities some stronger then others. I've only played this game solo so far because of the lack of difficulty and I am super happy about multiclassing. I love my Bleakwalker/Assassin!

because the game currently isnt big enough to make them worthwhile,

 

by the time you gain enough levels to get what you want half the game is over, 

 

I will be rolling multis after the expansions come out

 

That's the perfect point why multi-classing is good. Currently the game lacks end-game challenges so much, that the early boost of multi-classing is way more worthwhile than the op spells at a later level, you just become op later anyway, so no need for those op spells.

The game isn't big enough for the end single class spells to reach their full benefits.

[[ENDING SPOILERS] The ending of Deadfire and what it means for The Lore]

My personal take on the story: 

• Something clearly existed before the Engwithans, and to speculate according to the timeline our races lived for about 19,000 Years - The Engwithans lived before that and there is no information. Let's assume they had AT LEAST as much so another 19,000 years.
  
  This alone, is enough evidence to me, that there was clearly something before the wheel was created by the Engwithans and it can't be as dramatic as the gods make it out to be, or it's an armageddon scale holy end of the world in hundreds of  thousands of years. @Aramintai   mentioned there were no gods before the Engwithan ones, that is not true. The game only says that the Engwithans were arrogant enough that if they didn't find the gods, then there must be none - that's another take on how arrogant they were.

Now my take on all that is, the Engwithans just simply did not like that life was uncontrolled and caused chaotic civilizations ( As Thaos said also ), they wanted all nations to work together and form a civilized united Eora striving for advancement, and so their plan started - to control life.

 

Without typing too much non-sense:

 

1. The gods are programmed beings - they talk according to what aspects they have been programmed for, such as Rymrgand will always say death is coming and it will take everyone, as that is his being. He is forced to say that bull**** - and through the years of lies and arrogance, they made themselves believe that if the wheel get destroyed, life ends with it aswell. Obviously Berath will say the Wheel is important since it's practically Berath himself, she is a machine, she can't say anything that is against her own nature. ( This was in Pillars 1 I clearly remember being said that the machines are not super AIs and they have programmed personalities. )
2. Eothas realized the lie they have been feeding themselves and decided to end the arrogant rule of the Engwithans as they have made a huge mistake by thinking they can control life and it must end, so that people can realize themselves it is not the way - and from the fear of being destroyed the other gods fell even more into their delusions and told the same to the Watcher.
3. Eothas is the God of Rebirth, which also symbolizes to me more that he is seeking to end the rule of gods so that current Eora can bloom to a new life, without being shackled by the wheel and the gods, so that people can learn that the wheel is not necessary.
4. My final recognition - The ending credits did not mention, not even by 1 word that something chaotic happened after the wheel got destroyed, life did not change by any means, emphasizing to me even more that it was just a final cling to their ''life'' by the Engwithans.

 

The TLDR for me and how I look at this story : It's the story of the final downfall of the Engwithans and the destruction of their legacy on Eora. 

I hope the story will get more clear later, for now this is my story.

[Paradise of the Mind]

To reflect on my first post. I am a bit disappointed after the first hype. The idea was really cool to have them as ally, but when i realized what's the use of it, I wish I had just killed them really.

All that happened was, I had a dialogue option in the final sea battle to have them help me

[Does Eder have a...]

After completing his quest and the game - I am not so sure about that really. 

Either I missed an important line, but I don't think he is his father.

[Triple crown solo possible? Builds for it?]

I would be highly interested in recommended TC solo builds, I just want to start one, but I don't really have a strong idea what to start it with.

Thinking chanter / paladin maybe? That's never a bad choice...

[Remove Diplomatic Points?]

I agree that dispositions should counter each-other, My playthrough is now basically me having all dispositions maxed and some conversations are a mess, a cruel reaction followed by a benevolent reaction. It's just....a mess really.

Especially that I have done some terrible things, and everyone treats me like I am benevolent.

[My personal gripes with the game]

1 - There are waaay too many changes compared to the first game to even make that possible, where the difference in BG1 to BG2 is not that drastic. Also scaling is quite broken atm so that also would be an issue.

 

2 - If you don't like pirating you can basically 100% Ignore it, like apart from the first quest to repair yoru ship and get your crew, you can absolutely ignore caring about your ship. Stop exploring island, always choose escaping enemies, don't do bounties, don't upgrade your ship.

 

On the other hand, it's a nice part of the game and it really makes you more immersed into the Deadfire feeling. But welp if they learnt or not. I love the pirate feeling of the game, I am sorry you don't like it yourself. This is the Deadfires, it is what it is.

3 - I agree the journal is a mess, hopefully they will improve on it. Overall I would just love to not have categories and just a list of quests instead.

4 - Yeah, they will patch it, though I am starting to think the game got easier at it's core and fights will be easy in any-case because of the new mechanics.