Riftis
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Posts posted by Riftis
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biting whip is 30% additive damage to the base roll (it got nerfed from 40%)
Sneak attacks is extra 30% on top of all the damage eg two handed style, lashes ect
so sneak is far more powerful
Where are you getting this? I was under the impression that Sneak Attack has always been an additive bonus. IIRC only Might and lashes are multiplicative bonuses in Deadfire.
Either way, Mindstalker is the multiclass to take if you wanna stack sneak attack damage.
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I think it should have been down to 30% rather than 20% but 50% was too much when you take multiclassing into account.
Good news:
You heard it here folks, my balancing senses are impeccable.
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I'm actually okay with this nerf, despite wanting to play a mindstalker (cipher/rogue). I think it should have been down to 30% rather than 20% but 50% was too much when you take multiclassing into account. Whenever I was thinking about multiclassing I always had it in my head that I could combine X with rogue and get 50% bonus damage. I should mention, even with this nerf beguiler cipher + rogue still gets 50% sneak attack damage when you take biting whip at power level 2 (and 40% before), so it seems like mindstalker is the class to be if you wanna focus on sneak attack damage.
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Not sure, though you will have to pick spells every 3 levels when you go up a power level. I find the idea of a spellblade who focuses mainly on rogue stuff and just steals spells from other grimoires thematically appealing, though. I say go for it, it may or may not end up being a bad idea but its cool thematically. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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This seems relevant to this thread:
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Comfort him
He cried in my arms for a solid 10 minutes but he's better now
No, that's why it's pre-installed and not installed.
I know, I was looking for a work-around or a hack.
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No.
My friend is disappointed.
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so a cipher gets biting whip that increases all weapon damage 30% (without having to have an affliction like Sneak attack for it to work)
and a rogues sneak attacks has supposedly been nerfed to 20%
is this a joke?
SHHHH. I'm gonna play a mindstalker and I don't want my class nerfed even more!
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Enjoying the superior Linux experience, are we?
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hmm... so still just 1 ability to chose from 2 classes (when multi-class)? if so then i think it's severely limited. if i can choose 1 ability per class then that's much better.
It's one ability per level except when you go up in power level, then you get one for each, or single classes get two. Here is the chart:
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Also based on some comment in general subforum, sneak attack is nerfed to 30% sneak attack.
NOOOOOO
I approve
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I work independently as a gay escort so I can take breaks whenever I want, my excuse? "I'm unavailable". I never elaborate. I love being self employed ~
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After further review I've decided to go Bleak Walker/Black Jacket. Two sets of dual wielded pistols and then get down and dirty with a Sabre/Dagger.
Normally I hate the idea of using black jacket to weapon swap through firearms cause it seems cheesy and against the spirit of the subclass, but when combined with bleak walker it actually does make a lot of thematic sense, brutal efficiency and all that.
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Either way I'm okay with this, multiclassing always seemed more desirable to me for the inherent synergies between classes, giving them more abilities was just the cherry on top that they didn't seem to need. Good to see some more advantages to going single classes.
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4 - Multi class characters don't get extra abilities. Every character gets the same number of ability points to use as they level, they just get a larger pool to pick from. So multi class characters can be more versatile, but they do not get more powers per se if that makes sense.
Erm I believe you are mistaken on this point, unless my information is outdated. My understanding of it is that single classes get a new ability every level, and gain a power level every two levels. Multi classes gain an ability every level, and TWO abilities every three levels, one for each class, when they go up in power level. This means that multiclass characters do end up with more abilities, and it also means that you can't pick a multiclass character and then only pick abilities from one class, you'll need to pick one from your other class at least once every three levels.
Yours is outdated. Single class also get extra abilities- each time they reach a new power level (past first). [so, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th, 16th, 19th]
This means they start slightly behind [start at first level with 1 ability vs 1 plus 1 abilities], but catch up [at 7th] and eventually pull ahead [9th, though they're briefly equal again at 10th]
Interesting. Is there a chart for this somewhere?
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4 - Multi class characters don't get extra abilities. Every character gets the same number of ability points to use as they level, they just get a larger pool to pick from. So multi class characters can be more versatile, but they do not get more powers per se if that makes sense.
Erm I believe you are mistaken on this point, unless my information is outdated. My understanding of it is that single classes get a new ability every level, and gain a power level every two levels. Multi classes gain an ability every level, and TWO abilities every three levels, one for each class, when they go up in power level. This means that multiclass characters do end up with more abilities, and it also means that you can't pick a multiclass character and then only pick abilities from one class, you'll need to pick one from your other class at least once every three levels.
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I tend to change my ideas a lot but currently I'm planning on playing a mindstalker, rogue with no subclass + beguiler cipher. My sneak attacks will do 70% bonus damage and I should have plenty of ways to trigger it. My character will be a ranged dps/debuffer probably using rods and/or scepters, and a club for melee, since the proficiency ability reduces their will, which should leave them vulnerable to being dominated or otherwise debuffed.
Thematically I find the fact that my resource pools will be guile and psionics very pleasing. Where possible in interactions I intend to make my character arrogant and deceptive, falling somewhere between true neutral and neutral evil in alignment, though not completely disagreeable and uncooperative. I'll be on the lookout to find situations where it would be justifiable for my character to want to assassinate otherwise friendly NPC characters, but I won't just do it willy-nilly.
How about you?
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I'm playing devils advocate a bit here, but it seems to me that the purpose of armour (outside of heavy armour) is not to get your armour over their pen, but to protect yourself from over penetration.
Wrong.
Josh said...
I'm just working with the numbers here. As far as I can tell there is no point to light armour and very little point to medium armour without taking overpenetration into account. Regardless of what Josh's vision was, this is the result as far as I can tell.
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So...
Hide, AR 5, 3 vs slash. Universally useless. Swords and daggers start out overpenning this crap, and you take +20% recovery for wearing it.
Leather, 5, 3 vs crush. Again, useless. (And still +20%)
Padded, 5, 3 vs pierce. Again. Still +20%
breastplate: AR 7, 5 vs slash. +35% recovery, bad vs... almost anything. The lower slashing value makes it effectively useless against the few things with lower pen.
scale, AR 7, 5 vs piece, +35%. Largely bad. Equally bad vs the low pen swords and hunting bows.
Medium is weird. If you're a barbarian, paladin, Unbroken or Wizard, you can make it work, If you're not, you're either DR=Pen for most weapons, bad vs swords and most ranged weapons OR sabres, or up against an armor piercing weapon that will ignore it.
Brigadine, AR9, 5 vs pierce. Actually good against many weapons, with a big weakness (which is fine), +55% recovery. Ouch
Plate, 9, 5 vs crush. +55% recovery. (anyone seeing the theme yet? There are essentially three armor types with variants for weaknesses.
Robes and clothes are AR3.
I'm playing devils advocate a bit here, but it seems to me that the purpose of armour (outside of heavy armour) is not to get your armour over their pen, but to protect yourself from over penetration. At equal power levels, there's literally nothing that can overpen medium armour. So for medium armour it sounds like you're paying 35% recovery in exchange for generally not getting overpenetrated and taking 30% more damage. 35% recovery for the ability to (probably) not take 30% more damage does sound a bit steep, but that's that. Light armour is similar, at equal power levels its 20% recovery in exahange for probably not taking overpen damage except when they're attacking with your weakness. people in cloth almost always get over penetrated, so there is a reason to wear light armour over cloth, at least on paper.
I still can't say I'm the biggest fan of this system but it is starting to make more sense in my head.
Edit: also on the topic of preventing overpenetration, every point of quality on armour adds +1 armour to it right? Cause that would mean medium, light, and even cloth gets a lot better at preventing overpen as they go up in tiers, since one point of armour is equivalent to a two point pen requirement to overpen. Assuming of course that weapons are of equal tier, they still need 1 extra penetration to get overpen damage per tier.
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Which would be the solution anyway? The only possibility I see is randomize pen (of course still based on weapon, something like +-25% the starting value) and personally I don't really like more randomness
It's difficult for me to come up with a solution to a problem when I haven't even playtested the game, maybe I'm getting all up in arms over nothing, or maybe this really is an issue. as for a solution though, I don't think this would work without potentially adjusting penetration values across the board, but instead of having a flat damage bonus when you have double penetration to their armour, make the damage slowly scale up the more pen you get, and the same in reverse. The lower your pen is compared to their armour, the less damage you do on a scale, that goes down maybe 5 or 10% per point. Admittedly this almost completely throws the current system out the window, but it still allows penetration to be a primary stat for dealing damage. To make penetration seem like its actually doing its job of penetrating through armour, the percentage of damage you should lose for not meeting their armour should be greater than the percentage you gain from having more than their armour, but it'd be way less than it is currently.
Anyway those were just my thoughts off the top of my head, idk if it would actually help or not but I do think there should be some sort of tweaking.
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Currently you have the option between two extremes:
- play a naked char and try to kill enemies as fast as possible. You should have a good defense and some ways of healing.
- Stack as much AR as possible and accept that you are slow as hell
Everything in between means that you will take lots of damage AND you are also very slow.
I do hope they adjust the system to make all types of armour relevant. From a thematic standpoint medium armour has always been my favorite so this is a bit disheartening.
The biggest factor, and one we can't know anything about yet, will actually be the enemies we face. Everyone is saying Light is a deadzone and that's maybe true in the beta (maybe not for every fight) but in the full game the penetration values of the enemies you face will be a massive influence on how effective armor "feels".
Even if they do add a variety of enemies with different penetration levels, it doesn't change the fact that the system as it stands can create deadzones where changing armour up or down makes zero difference on your defenses in a given fight and only impacts your action speed. Equipping better armour that comes with a bigger drawback should always net you better results, except in the instances where the enemy is using attacks that beat the weakness of that armour, at least in my view.
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Actually, the current deadzone seems to be light armor existing at all.
Ah, but there is a deadzone? I thought there would be. Light armour being redundant does make sense, the system even in its revised state does seem to punish players for wearing light armour, they can't just give the enemies lower pen to make light armour relevant cause then heavy armour players would nullify enemy attacks. The more I think about it the more I miss the flat damage reduction from pillars 1. I do see the potential for this system, I love what penetration is trying to be as a stat in the current iteration but idk, it still sounds like it needs work and its so close to launch...
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The system changed, the "no penetration malus" instead of going immediately to 30% with one point of difference it scales to <1 = 75%, then <2 = 50%, than <3 = 25%.
Well, I like that better than the original system, though you still need double the pen to get the 30% damage boost, rather than it scaling up to that? Am I correct in assuming that this is more of a bonus that adds some extra damage to your crits if you have enough pen than something you should be aiming to get for your regular hits?
I like the idea of playing a blackjacket with various melee weapons who always uses the best one for their resistance, but even with a bunch of weapons (and maybe multiclassing to get +2pen) it seems like it'd just be an inconsistent way of getting a measly 30% damage bonus, when I could just play a pure or multiclass rogue and setup situations where I can get a 50% bonus instead. Thematically speaking I like the idea of playing a blackjacket a lot, but mechanically? Ehhhh I mean this is all theorycrafting but it doesn't sound good on paper. I don't wanna make a cheesy blackjacket that just weaponswaps firearms, I want a blackjacket as it's meant to be, but not if it's bad. Anyway I digress.
Doesn't the armour system as it is currently create a bit of a 'deadzone', where because enemies need double your armour value to get the pen bonus, theres a wide gap where for many fights you may as well wear lighter armour for the quicker action speed? Idk, I like how the new armour system creates penetration as a new primary stat for dealing damage, but at least on paper it still seems a bit lackluster to me and I wish there were still some sort of flat damage reduction. (is there any?)
Thread for those of us who want to roll a single or multi rogue....lets talk
in Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)
Posted
Another interesting thing to note: If you want to have sneak attack damage but you DON'T want to run rogue, you could run a beguiler cipher single/multiclass instead and the effect is almost as good, except it takes one ability to get it up to the 30% of rogues sneak attack and it turns off when you hit max focus, but you're probably gonna be casting cipher spells at max focus anyway.