Insidous
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Posts posted by Insidous
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Yeah instead of asking ourselves whether hybrids, priests or whatever will be nerved, what do you think about this:
Is it more fun playing a hybrid were different elements (healing, spell- and weapon-damage) synergize with a single attribute, meaning you are always kinda the jack of all trades, or do you feel classes like ciphers could use more specialization, which could also allow for funkier builds?
I mean being the jack of all trades is for some part the point of hybrids, but I feel dividing healing, spell- and weapon-damage can make for a bigger build variety and ultimately be very fun to play. Also a generic cipher aka grieving mother should be still very possible
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I'm playing around with a Priest of Wael + Sharpshooter. I have to say this is a great combination. I summon the "faith-imbued" rod right at the start of combat and activate the blast modal.
The cool thing is that blast in Deadfire seems to be a real weapon attack and not some seperate thing - basically like Carnage was in PoE. That means that the enormous 60% corrosive lash of the divine rod gets applied to all enemies in range. I'm constanlty hitting for 50+ damage in an AoE AND can heal and buff. Sharpshooter is great in order to get penetration (go nearer than 4m) or to get higher ACC (farther away). And of course the stag helps a bunch, too.
I also tried the idea with the double sceptre Bleak Walker/Helwalker in order to get wounds and retribution just by using the scepter modal. I didn't know that the modal not only gives you bonus damage, but also +2 PEN which is great (scepters already have high PEN). FoD with double scepter isn't the strongest thing you could possibly do when it comes to base damage, but once you overpenetrate (easy with FoD-crit + 10 PEN atm) things fly apart with the help of +10 MIG and +25% Retribution. It's fun!
I don't even have Lightning Strikes yet...
Then: Berserker + Street Fighter is a good combo as well. Lots of Full Attacks that shred clouds quickly. I also like the status names of the Streetfighter ("searching for a fight, heating up etc. ").
Heating Up + Blooded is a nice dmg combo.So you mean Blast from rod can trigger special affliction from abilities? Like Blind Strikes?
It can, that was my first build (wael/rouge) and it was much more effective than I thought. It's only lacking in penetration and enough guile maybe to fire all the sweet rouge debuffs on everybody
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Yeah I'm not going to go build by build and compare vs. every other problem the game has. :shrug:
Like, those other things probably need fixing too. I'm just frustrated because they're breaking an elegant system and in the process making my preferred class dramatically less effective. Maybe they'll be able to come up with some sort of theoretical fix but they haven't yet and I can't figure out any potential fixes that aren't extremely complicated or wouldn't cause even more secondary issues somewhere else.
Ever try smoothing out bubbles in linoleum? Push it down one place, it pops up somewhere else? All the cipher fixes going forward from here look like that to me.
Yeah that's fair I guess.
Many builds, characters and how classes play out will change dramatically in deadfire and different attributes certainly won't help with that. Hopefully it'll be worth it to alter an already great system
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I don't get why so many people focus on balance here. You can still buff parts of ciphers you know? What the stats do is a fundamental design decision and that's what should be looked at.
If they want to get rid of a dump stat they didn't succeed because most casters will skip strength now, but I think for the overall design and immersion, that comes with stats, this is a change for the better. I love playing priests and it was always weird to me how they didn't need resolve at all. Paladins now have the choice if they want to be a strong high damage zealot or the resolute defensive healer.
Because it's not just Ciphers who are affected, and that a mathematically unbalanced game is not enjoyable for those who have to deal with it? Also you say you love playing Priests, but they are also one of the classes adversely effected by this change. Under this new change you will need Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence and Resolve, As opposed to Might, Dexterity and Intelligence of old.
The reason this is so bad is that Priests although not to the degree of Ciphers, still relied on their weapon. For a majority of their career their spells are about strengthening themselves and their allies. You don't think it's immersion breaking for a priest of Berath to absolutely suck with his greatsword because it was the only way for his spells to matter at all?
As i said in the previous thread lets take two statlines. This is with a Death Godlike who is a multiclass Priest of Berath/Devoted fighter to fully realized the RP of the Pallid Knight.
Old System
Might:18
Constitution:8
Dexterity:19
Perception:10
Intelligence:19
Resolve:3
New System
Might:14
Constitution:8
Dexterity:10
Perception:10
Intelligence:18
Resolve:17
That is a -5% loss in duration, -6% loss in AoE size, a -27% action speed , -18 Ref, -12% melee damage, -8 Fort
These are not little things, these are very large losses in overall efficiency. And if i were to run with a Cleric using the former statline just buffing myself and striding into combat. Not only will i have lost any ability to heal myself, but the Priest bonus spells per power level will be completely wasted as i have no ability to damage anything with them
It's fair to say that flexibility could very likely be nerfed, becuase it will indeed be taxing to focus on STR and RES, but these changes do not happen in a vacuum, I suppose. If we have 4 months of under powered priests, wizards, ciphers, etc. in the beta there will be changes.
They need to buff most casters regardless and I'm sure that after the balancing process we end up with a better game where it isn't mathematical optimal having 3 Resolve on that build. Dumping an attribute called Resolve on a priest in a rpg feels just about as bad as dumping strength on a barbarian
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Also a dramatic increase is not needed. Might makes up for about a 24% additional damage, not any absurdly crazy numbers.
Might has become multiplicative in Deadfire so, assuming you have a few other sources of bonus damage, it is a huge boost to your damage.
That's a big change I didn't know about!
But I am talking about a hypothetical balance change to boost cipher spells which are already under powered. Are there any other ways except attributes to buff your spell damage, that would stack multiplicative with might (or resolve)?
But those paladin powers won't incidentally built up your focus any higher with a lot of resolve. According to Josh FoD will be affected by strength. Paladins need resolve for deflection healing and maybe sworn enemy damage spells, all of which don't build up any focus. If a pure cipher is fine, those damage powers won't be stronger on a paladin/cipher
That's not really what I meant by "incidental," sorry. I meant more that the multiclass hybrid could use Paladin (or Berserker, or w/e) abilities and just not use cipher powers till later in the fight. No matter what you're doing, as long as you're using a weapon in some fashion, you're going to get focus. Multiclass characters have a lot of other non-cipher things they can do while waiting for the focus bar to fill up; ciphers don't.
Basically it's the same issue as why Ascendants are a really good pick for a multiclass cipher right now but a really bad pick if you're a single class cipher.
Alternative example: multiclass priest/cipher who stacks resolve. Start the fight by buffing and casting the area of effect heal, with some ranged autoattacks mixed in. By the time you've blown out your priest spell list, your focus meter is full from incidental autoattacks; now you cast those already-overtuned cipher powers with your additional Resolve bonus.
Multiclass ciphers can use the other class as a crutch to get through the weak side of their character, whatever it is; single class ciphers can't.
Yeah you will have very few very strong spells at the end of the fight in which you hardly did much damage before. It's by no means bad, but is it really as bad as a cleaving stance, carnage, devoted berserker with 50% hit to crit conversion, grazes and whatnot just onehitting entire groups at the beginning of a fight?
There are tons of broken combinations, I don't see why a cipher after attribute changes will be any harder to balance than those
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on't get why so many people focus on balance here.
It is not a balance focus.
Josh said it was for "no bad build" rather than no dump stat. Ok, no Problem.
But in a sense Wizard + Ranger is now not the best build...
Max Differential : 45 % (24 % + 21 %) Resolve 3 Strengh 18
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With a Ranger + Fighter
Max Differential : 0 % (All in Strength) Resolve 3 Strength 18
Perhaps, it is not a bad build... But it look like...
High strength wizard-ranger:
cast Kalakoth's minor blights, do a accuracy buffed wounding shot and watch them explode
High resolve wizard-ranger:
Focus on pet talents and nuke spells and have a decent buffer while you are casting from behind
There are tons of possibilities!
But yeah there will be bad multicalssing builds with or without this change; that's given I think with such a complex system and this is why there is a warning before you choose.
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That's the other option -- just make Cipher powers have really big damage numbers.
But then someone goes the other direction, makes, say, a Resolve-stacking Paladin/cipher that does take the cipher powers (Say, an Ascendant build). Use paladin powers for the inital phases of the fight, then once you've built up focus incidentally, go crazy casting overbalanced cipher endgame powers.
Multi-class builds can use one class as a crutch for the other; single-class ciphers can't.
But those paladin powers won't incidentally built up your focus any higher with a lot of resolve. According to Josh FoD will be affected by strength. Paladins need resolve for deflection healing and maybe sworn enemy damage spells, all of which don't build up any focus. If a pure cipher is fine, those damage powers won't be stronger on a paladin/cipher
Also a dramatic increase is not needed. Might makes up for about a 24% additional damage, not any absurdly crazy numbers.
Multiclassing introduced a lot of totally unbalanced and overpowered builds, I don't think the attribute change and any long run implications will have as big of an impact as some of those fighter, barbarian, monk, soul annihilation combinations, which all rely on physical strength - an attribute that got nerfed.
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I don't get why so many people focus on balance here. You can still buff parts of ciphers you know? What the stats do is a fundamental design decision and that's what should be looked at.
If they want to get rid of a dump stat they didn't succeed because most casters will skip strength now, but I think for the overall design and immersion, that comes with stats, this is a change for the better. I love playing priests and it was always weird to me how they didn't need resolve at all. Paladins now have the choice if they want to be a strong high damage zealot or the resolute defensive healer.
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They're putting ciphers in a nerf box and I don't see a way out of it.
They could buff the spells, that doesn't affect multiclassing much
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A damage dealing melee will max out Strength while a Spell nuker can dump strength and place those points in Constitution so that their Fortitude does not suffer. The Damage dealing nuker can then max Resolve.
More food for wizard tanks
Is wizard gonna be the new god tier class in POE2? I call for nerf now before it gets ugly I'll trade in 8 deflection for 24% weapon damage any time as a wizard. I don't know about you guys but my auto attacking wizards deals a ton of damage in the beta. Summoning weapons are among the strongest spells right now and even regular implements are pretty good.
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I don't miss the old system in martial fighting and I like the way you need to buff yourself to graze.. even if the balance currently is a little off.
That being said casters who do a 6+ second spell and miss feel terrible to play. I would really like to see grazes either as a feature of most long cast spells or even better:
A modal you can activate: offensive spells can graze, +33% cast time for offensive spells or something alike
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I think it's an interesting change, but I don't really like that they are changing the name.
It's a big nerf to casters flexibility. Spells like Kalakoth's blights, god's weapon, etc., while still being very powerful with strength, will become niche for your mainstream casters
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What about decreasing the duration of incoming negative afflictions just like INT increases your outgoing effects?
For example:
An enemy tries to blind you for 10 seconds; he has 12 INT, you got 14 RES: 10 * (1 + (0.10 - 0.20)) = 9 second duration.
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Since all classes getting trinquets (no idea how that's spelled) I bet priests and druids will have something similar to a grimoire. Probably a good thing, as it was quite overwhelming getting like 8 spells at once and the wizard system felt better.
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- At 2:07, when we see the Monk's abilities, Skyward Kick is next to what I assume is the Empower symbol, and is therefore a per encounter ability rather than an ability requiring wounds. This means that, at the moment, Stunning Blow is being changed to an ability requiring wounds making it a lot better than in Pillars.
Its weird but I think the red symbol is most likely the wounds icon and Skyward Kick apparently is the only ability from that list requiring wounds. The empower icon is the yellow star between the backpack icon and the class abilities icon, we have seen it in use in update 36 (the E3 video).
Swift Strikes costs (as seen in 1:56) 1 Mortification (the number under the orange monk abilities icon) and the other abilities use the same resource. Also why would a freshly created, rested full health monk have 3 (level 1) or 9 (max level) wounds but no per encounter spells left?
The resource system replaces per encounter for all classes, but I wonder why they have so many monk abilities use this instead of wounds
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All-in-all, [if on the levels that grant us +1 ability we are free to choose the ability from both classes we multiclass into; i.e. can keep taking abilities from class A only, without being forced into alternating selection] I am ok with the changes, as there is still plenty of room for build optimization.
https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/165555197431/does-the-new-multiclassing-system-still-allow. This is a link posted in in another thread. It looks like you can pick from either talent tree you want when you level up. So if you want most talents from one class you can do that. So its not as ridged as AD&D.
It also looks like they have simplified the talent abilities. If i am reading this post right you can pick what POE 1 calls talents/abilities on any level up you want. So i can pick multiple spells on back to back levels or maybe multiple abilities on back to back levels. not sure but that is how this post reads
I wonder if we'll still get some common, non class specific talents in deadfire then. Sword and Shield style fighter only now?
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I got this answer in an online calculator. What does the E stand for? (1030*1030*1030*1030*1030)
1.159274074E15
it has nothing to do with the constant, E15 means times 10^15
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_notation#E-notation
Great update! I was looking forward to multiclass my priest of wael with a rogue. Now i don't know if I should do wael + assassin or simply trickster. Too bad that trickster and wael don't seem to synergize very well. Same goes for either combined with wizard or illusionist. I feel like giving subclasses access to other classes abilities makes multiclassing somewhat redundant
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But in a society where gays and heteros are treated equally, and no one would raise an eyebrow, I don't think the gay Edér and the hetero one would be so different, family plans aside. That will always be a factor, like when he would want to start a family on his own.
Still the thought that you could take a characters sexuality, replace it, and that character would largely stay the same is rather very hard to imagine for me. I am speaking for myself here, but I think, that is because heterosexual and gay people are treated very differently in this, our world.
It's very hard to imagine that there could be a world where heterosexual and gay people are treated equally to such a degree that, they would largely be the same person (again: apart from their sexuality), whether they'd be gay, bi or hetero.
Yes, how the world reacts to ones sexuality makes a big difference, but also how a character reacts to the world because of his sexuality.
Sexuality is of course more than just which gender you like, for example also the level of commitment you are willing to invest in a relationship, how experimental you are and how flirty you are. It is about who you envy, about jealousy and to some degree about power and violence too.
There are no fundamental differences in personality between gay, bi or hetero persons, but you would treat npcs and especially companions you spent months adventuring with differently.
Companion relations in deadfire a not only supposed to be player <--> companion, but also the companions between each other. Could you imagine the mess if they were all bi/player sexual?
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When I went to The Force Awakens, I went expecting Star Wars and an honest effort at creating a good film that respects that established universe. I didn't go in expecting it to cater to me. I don't want it to cater to me, I want it to tell a story that unfolds before me.
So why does a game have to be a mirror that caters to me. It's almost insulting. You don't buy a game because you know every plot point and mechanic, you buy it to experience something unknown. No part of the consumer process promises everything that you are going to get. It's a voluntary transaction of which there are unknowns.
Man speaking about representation. Everyone is so transfixed on identities. But were are the traditional Turkish, Indian, non-diaspora Blacks that aren't historic set pieces? Entitlement even exists in the less represented but still represented identity groups. Very few people want to embody a universal ideal, they just want to live in an epoch of their own golden age. It's a bad mentality, entitlement.
Dominant, athletic, tough, independent, win against the odds, be the hero, get the girl. The archetype of a man. What men should be like. What men want to be like.
Not all men, of course. Not as many as they used to be. But this is still a widespread ideal.
Do you think it's a coincidence that so many movies, games and other media have straight white male protagonists? Do you think the same types of characters over and over make for the best and new experiences?
Do you think it's fun for women to see themselves portrayed as damsels to be rescued or sexy prizes to be won again and again? Do you not understand how empowering it feels then to be a heroine who isn't reduced to her attractiveness?
You haven't seen the Force Awakens right? The protagonists are a woman and a black man. The other recent star wars film had a female protagonist too and while both movies had strengths and weaknesses the main characters were according to most pretty awesome. Recently movies having a lot more diverse set of characters and I would argue that star wars is one of the best examples of how to do it right.
It is characters first and not diversity for the sake of diversity. It doesn't cater to a singular group of people, the sex, sexuality or race isn't really that important in the first place in Star wars.
The universe of poe is more complex, but it surly never was a straight white male power fantasy and we have no reason to believe deadfire will change that.
When it comes to romances I say Obsidian should stick to the characters. And sexuality is in one way or another an important part of many characters in poe. I for example wouldn't like Pallegina to openly flirt with my char because that is not her. And I also don't like player sexual companions for the sake of diversity. A good portrait of a gay or be character? Yeah anytime. Eder beeing my best bro and flirting with xoti in one game and in the next a romance able option for my male character? Feels forced and wrong to me.
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With the new subclasses in deadfire, I guess we probably getting a subclass focussed on in battle stealth, backstabbing or both. Maybe the already announced "assassin" is somthing like that.
Regarding weapons I would not like a direct backstabbing bonus with certain weapons.
Maybe a more indirect approach? Like a stiletto proficiency modal that gives damage for minus deflection while not being engaged or something. More stacking damage bonuses are always nice for rouges
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2:40 - We got life bars now. I guess you can turn them on/off, but I'm curious to see if they are useful or just clutter the whole screen
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1. You can Drag and Drop consumables from your inventory to the character portray. Only found out about that recently, but it makes things a lot easier. I don't know if it works in combat though
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In my opinion they should just get rid of personal inventories altogether. Just one big stash/shared inventory for all characters and no more searching where you put what
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I hated the health mechanic, when playing on Hard difficulty. One battle going poorly (most often due to poor positioning at the start of it) meant that I'd have to rest with most of my spells and other per-day resources left, and nothing felt worse, other than perhaps the stronghold hirelings payment reminding me that I didn't get enough done that week.
As far as I'm concerned, Dragon Age "solved" the health mechanic problem eight years ago: One pool of fairly generous HP resource, which when it drains the character falls unconscious and receives a wound which can be eliminated by either "resting" (returning to camp in DAO or your manor/shack in DA2) or using an injury kit. The challenge became at least keeping one person standing at the end of combat, and ideally keeping everyone up so you're not wasting time or money.
Health/Endurance just meant that the monk was inevitably going to drag everyone else down, every single day.
This, most definitely.
Single reason I stopped playing a Monk.
No matter how good you are, how well you gear, how min-maxed you built, your Monk is going to need Rest for no other reason than him existing.
This is needlessly punishing towards a class that's meant to be played that way.
One has to ask themselves, what's the actual value of endurance/hp split pools, what core mechanic does it provide ?
It prevents people from cheesing fights with constant tanking and healing ? So what if they wanted to play that way ? This is a single player game.
It forces people to Rest from time to time for realism ? So what if they don't care about it ?
It punishes them for playing a 10 CON monk ? Well maybe they are confident in their ability to keep him alive even with 10 CON.
If the main incentive is to give the CON stat some measure of value, then the problem lies with the CON stat itself and not the need for split endurance/hp pools.
As per my suggestion on the POE1 forums, CON should give +DR so people are discouraged from dumping it.
Aside from that, I see no practical use to the split hp/endurance pool mechanic, and I for one would like for it to go away.
It ruins Monks.
I get where you coming from and it does suck for monks in the early game, but the early game is by far the most challenging part anyways.
You perfectly describe the advantages already:
It prevents cheesing and forces you to rethink your tactics depending on your health.
It adds a long term strategic layer.
Yeah it is a single player game, but like it has been discussed in countless balance threads, many people don't like cheese. It either makes the game way to easy or the cheese the only possible way to play.
The health split surely wasn't executed perfectly, but I think many issues like it's unforgiveness (specially for monks) could be iterated on and I for one am pretty sad that they seem to abandon it.
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Heating Up + Blooded is a nice dmg combo.
Is wizard gonna be the new god tier class in POE2? I call for nerf now before it gets ugly
Resolve! Huh, What is it good for?
in Backer Beta Discussion
Posted
What people have seem to forgotten is that +1 accuracy is not linear in its effect, and much more useful when your accuracy is lower than enemy defenses (so against bosses or on potd - what people are min-max for in the first place). Also it applies to debuffs and cc aswell.
Let's look at a practical example:
You want to hit somebody with a blinding strike: 50 AC (51 AC) versus a defense of 80. Ranges:
Miss: 1-54 (0-53)
Graze: 55-79 (54-78)
Hit: 80-100 (79 -100)
Let's say a hit does 20 damage and the duration of blind is 10 seconds:
Expacted damage: (25*10+20*20)/100 = 6.5
Expacted duration: (25*5+20*10)/100 = 3.25
With +1 Accuracy:
Expacted damage: (25*10+21*20)/100 = 6.7 -- (6.7/6.5)*100% - 100% = 3.08% increase in damage
Expacted duration: (25*5+21*10)/100 = 3.35 -- (3.35/3.25)*100% - 100% = 3.08% increase in blind duration
Conclusion: Against strong defenses +1 accuracy, and therefor perception as it is, can be very competitive with the +3% damage of a point of might. Of course stacking damage bonuses are nice, at the same time accuracy also affects cc.
Accuracy was the "god stat" of PoE1 and that is unlikely to change. Perception doesn't need to be buffed