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Aginorh

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  1.  

     

    Hi all,

    I came across this via a google search. Is the review of cipher powers still accurate ?

     

    Thank you.

     

    Aginorh

     

     

     

    This build looks pretty decent overall. The main gap I'm seeing is that it isn't updated for the White March 2 expansion and later patches, which has a few implications:

     

    1) The enemy AI is much improved, so I don't think it's as good an idea as it used to be to drop Con all the way down to 3. You'll need a little more survivability, especially on PotD. I mean you *could* you'll just lead your party in "times unconscious."

     

    2) The powers added with the WM expansions aren't covered (time parasite is probably the worst rank 7 power now, as it doesn't stack with Deleterious Alacrity of Motion)

     

    3) there are a few gear options I don't see mentioned, mostly from WM 2 (but pick up Angio's Gambeson in Dyrford for Deleterious Alacrity and keep it upgraded).

     

    I fully agree with your point 1. In my modest experience of playing hard mode with a 4 characters party, my Cipher (main) gets targeted a lot usually by ranged enemies and casters which I can't take out immediately at the start of the fight.

    Regarding WM1 and WM2 I do not have them yet, I intend to finish vanilla first and might buy the extensions depending on POE 2 release date.

     

    Still the power list and description in this build has been useful to me.

  2. Cipher: A beginner's guide to GUNMAGE

     

    Introduction

    This guide merely exists as an example on how to build a ranged Cipher, and isn't strictly the only way to build one. As such it may a bit wordy here. This guide is intended for Path of the Damned, but there's no reason why it couldn't work on lower difficulties.

     

    Races

    Personally the race choice doesn't really matter too much, though some races are a lot more useful than others. Wood Elf is the race chosen for this build, it doesn't hurt to explore the other races as some can possibly offer more.

     

    Human

    A ranged Cipher typically want to avoid damage whenever possible, so the Human's racial ability isn't particularly something you want to rely on, and the ability itself is pretty weak compared to what the Godlikes have to offer. On the other hand, unlike Godlikes, you can still wear a hat which may be significant.

     

    Wood Elf

    Typically the race of choice for a ranged Cipher, since just by being 4m away from an enemy you'll gain damage and accuracy bonuses. This does however restrict your power selection a tad bit, as you'll most likely want to avoid powers that move you close to an enemy, such as Ringleader.

     

    Pale Elf

    Resistances to burn and cold damage is never a bad thing. Cold damage resistance in particular is very helpful when dealing with Shades early in the game. Both types are also very useful to have in Cragholdt as the numerous casters in the area favor those two elements. Overall, I'd say its a pretty strong pick.

     

    Mountain Dwarf

    Poison and Disease resistances are alright I guess. Most of these types of attacks usually come from melee attacks, however enemy Druids are very trigger happy with spells of these types. Its not a bad choice for a melee Cipher, but for a ranged I'd probably look at other options.

     

    Boreal Dwarf

    Accuracy bonuses to Wilders and Primordials is actually better than you think, since a lot of the most dangerous enemies in the game are of these types! Adragans and Ogre Druids are among these, and we all know how much of a pain those two are.

     

    Coastal Aumua

    Not too many enemies will be using Prone attacks on a Cipher, assuming you're able to keep them away from melee attackers. Ranged Stuns though can come from Cean Gŵla, Greater Wind Blights and a majority of enemy Druids. Stun however is mostly deadly for frontliners due to their greatly reduced Deflection, though it is an annoying status effect as a whole.

     

    Island Aumua

    An extra weapon set can provide some utility. One strategy is to equip two guns and fire one shot from each to generate a large amount of Focus and then switch to 3rd faster attacking weapon like a War Bow. Obviously if you plan on taking advantage of their weapon sets, you'll want the Quick Switch talent to minimize the amount of time you take swapping weapons around. Overall, this race's usefulness ultimately hinges on your play style; personally I think an extra weapon slot is quite useful.

     

    Hearth Orlan

    An excellent race, Ciphers love crits and this race helps increase your chances of getting them. Not much else to add really, enjoy getting those crits!

     

    Wild Orlan

    Getting a bonus to all defenses upon being hit by a Will attack is pretty good, as enemy casters (In particular other Ciphers) will likely aim their spells at you. This will also work on fear auras which can be very useful when fighting dragons or drakes.

     

    Nature Godlike

    Functionally, their ability is similar to a Human's, though it packs much more of a punch. You do lose the ability to use a helmet though.

     

    Death Godlike

    Death's Usher is a pretty good damage dealing talent when paired up with damage over time effects or AoE. The Cipher however does have a fairly limited number of them available. Its still a pretty good race overall though.

     

    Moon Godlike

    Blah blah Silver Tide. This ability is great on any class and Cipher is no exception.

     

    Fire Godlike

    These make very potent melee Ciphers... but since we're talking about ranged... they're not really an option.

     

    Attributes

    The attribute spread I would recommend is:

    MIG 18

    DEX 18

    CON 3

    PER 18

    INT 18

    RES 3

     

    With Deadfire Archipelago - Drifer chosen as the back ground. This is min/maxed of course and isn't always the optimal spread, as such you may choose to add extra CON or RES to help with your squishiness. Just a few guidelines though:

     

    Might

    A primary stat for the Cipher and one of the most important. Might affects all damage you deal, and as Ciphers are designed to primarily deal damage, this is obviously important. Perhaps more important however is that the amount of Focus you gain is directly based on the amount of damage you deal. As such, the higher your Might, the more Focus you'll generate with each attack, making this stat perhaps even more important to the Cipher than it is to any other class.

     

    Dexterity

    Dexterity affects your attack speed and casting speed. With the 3.0 changes, Ciphers don't have as many powerful slow casting powers as they used to, so this stat is slightly less important. Its still however very useful for Focus generation as this will affect your attack speed with your weapons, and faster attacks means quicker Focus generation.

     

    Constitution

    Extra endurance never hurts as damage is ultimately unavoidable. A ranged Cipher though will most likely opt to dump this, as if they're getting swarmed they're gonna die regardless of how much Endurance they have.

     

    Perception

    Accuracy is paramount for a Cipher, as missing or grazing with your weapon is extremely costly as it'll have a powerful effect on your Focus gain. Also a lot of the Cipher's powers have much shorter duration than the spells coming from a Wizard or Druid, as such Ciphers value crits a lot for their duration bonus. With high perception it becomes significantly easier to score crits with your various powers.

     

    Intelligence

    As mentioned above, the duration of powers is a little on the short side compared to spells. Having a high Int though, will make your powers have much longer durations. Int also affects the AoE size, however Ciphers do not have too many AoE powers, and some of them like Mind Lance or Mind Blades, are unaffected by Int.

     

    Resolve

    A lot of what I mentioned in Con also applies to Resolve. It should be noted though that Resolve will have an effect on concentration. If you plan on running low Resolve, consider making Potions of Spirit Shield when fighting enemies that utilize a lot of interrupting effects (Such as the Ogre Druid's Insect Plague).

     

    Talents

    I recommend the following:

    2 - Biting Whip

    4 - Draining Whip

    6 - Penetrating Shot

    8 - Weapon Focus: Ruffian

    10 - Apprentice's Sneak Attack

    12 - Gunner

    14 - Marksman

     

    You can of course take them in any other order you choose. Or even take other talents, just a "quick" rundown on them:

     

    Psychic Backlash and Brutal Backlash

    Enemy Ciphers commonly pack these two, which is part of the reason they're annoying. These two talents though are highly situational, so its hard to recommend giving up a talent slot for these. I am almost certain these do however work on fear auras, which would make them very useful when dealing with dragons and drakes.

     

    Biting Whip

    Probably a given, but being able to hit harder equates to more Focus generated, so you will always want to grab this.

     

    Draining Whip

    Another obvious one to take, as this will increase the amount of Focus you generate with your attacks.

     

    Greater Focus

    The main reason to grab this is the fact that it can increase your starting Focus, which means its possible to use your higher level powers at the start of combat. This is especially useful during early game as your starting Focus pool is very small. Late game however, you'll have much more sizable Focus pool, as such this power may be slightly less useful depending on your playstyle.

     

    Weapon Focus

    Accuracy boosts are always welcome. Once you've decided on the weapon you want for your build, you'll want to grab the appropriate talent.

     

    Marksman

    For ranged Ciphers you get another accuracy boost to play with.

     

    Envenomed Strike

    Not a bad talent actually, the raw damage is quite good. However, its hard to justify picking this over other talents. If you have a free talent slot though, by all means go ahead and grab this.

     

    Gunner

    If you plan on using a firearm this talent is a must-have. Reloading is the bane of any gun user, and being able to quicken it is always a welcomed ability.

     

    Dangerous Implement

    Implements aren't very good at generating Focus, however you may want to use them when dealing with pierce immunes. One weapon however worth considering is the Golden Gaze, which hits multiple times and generates a solid amount of Focus. If you want to use that, then you'll want this of course.

     

    Beast Slayer/Primal Bane/Ghost Hunter/Sanctifier/Wilder Hunter

    They're not bad talents but they're very situational. You could grab one of these and pair them up with a camping bonus to get a huge bonus against one type of enemy, but still you usually have better choices to pick. If you had to grab one of these though, I would say Ghost Hunter is the best choice, as Spirits are incredibly common and are very dangerous.

     

    Interrupting Blows

    Compared to other classes, Ciphers are actually terrible at generating Interrupts, so I wouldn't recommend this.

     

    Penetrating Shot

    The ability to ignore DR means you'll be able to deal a lot more damage. This is especially important in PotD, as a majority of enemies have good DR values.

     

    Bloody Slaughter

    Not a bad talent actually, typically you use this to power up DoT or AoE effects. You could however fire an attack at a enemy low on endurance and generate a slightly larger amount of Focus. This ability also works with Death's Usher, so a Death Godlike with this ability can be quite fearsome on low Endurance enemies.

     

    Snake's Reflexes/Bear's Fortitude/Bull's Will/Superior Deflection

    A bonus to defenses is always welcomed. Grabbing these if you have talent slots to spare if often a very good idea.

     

    Quick Switch

    Swapping around weapon sets brings a lot of utility to your Cipher. If you plan on swapping around weapons a lot, this talent is a must-have. Otherwise you can probably ignore this. Its worth noting there's also a belt in the game that has this talent on it, which can allow you avoid using this on a talent slot.

     

    Apprentice's Sneak Attack

    An easy way to boost damage. You should ideally be setting up the conditions for this to kick in, especially since a lot of the Ciphers powers are good at doing this.

     

    Outlander's Frenzy

    This is a very potent talent, giving you a damage boost and attack speed boost, which can do wonders with your Focus generation. Keep in mind though that the attack speed boost does not stack with Time Parasite, and if you're using a Gun, this will do nothing to your reloading animation.

     

    Powers

    Finally we hit the section we've been waiting for, the Powers. There's gonna be a lot to cover here, of course first up we have the one my build uses:

    1st - Antipathetic Field, Mind Wave, Soul Shock, Whisper of Treason

    2nd - Mental Binding, Phantom Foes, Psychovampiric Shield, Recall Agony

    3rd - Ectopsychic Echo, Pain Link, Secret Horrors, Soul Ignition

    4th - Body Attunement, Pain Block, Silent Scream, Wild Leech

    5th - Borrowed Instinct, Tactical Meld

    6th - Amplified Wave, Disintegrate

    7th - Time Parasite

     

    And of course I'm gonna sum them all up, hoo boy. Lets get started.

     

    1st-level Powers

    Antipathetic Field

    This is a very powerful tether based power, dealing more damage than the Wizard's Ray of Fire! Its does have the limitation of being forced to move around to position it, plus you must avoid getting your allies caught in it as this will destroy them in no time flat.

     

    Eyestrike

    Blind is a very powerful status effect and being able to freely use it in each encounter makes this extremely useful during the early parts of the game. This also affects Will as well, which a lot of enemies during Act 1 have a low value in that area. If you have a Wizard or Druid though, this power does become less useful during a skirmish they may decide to toss out a spell or once Spell Mastery is available, as their sources of blind are much more effective overall.

     

    Mind Wave

    Knocking a group of enemies Prone has a lot of applications, especially if you run a lot of other casters. It can help with being swarmed and it can allow Reflex and Deflection based attacks land much easier.

     

    Soul Shock

    A potent and extremely spammable AoE power. It deals decent damage and has no affect on your own allies. This power alone will decimate a majority of early game encounters. I find myself using it less later in the game, but its still a pretty good AoE attack, especially if you have someone running the Stormcaller.

     

    Tenuous Grasp

    Its very hard to recommend this over Whisper of Treason now, due to its average cast speed and less powerful overall effect.The Frightened effect though has a very long duration, which can really help out with landing a majority of your powers.

     

    Whisper of Treason

    The signature move of a Cipher and with good reason too, as this power is just incredible now. It has a fast cast speed and it also inflicts Charmed which has numerous applications. A Charmed target will distract enemies, and also attack them too. Charm also lowers all defenses by 25 points, which makes them very easy to kill.

     

    2nd-level Powers

    Amplified Thrust

    Not a fan of this personally but its a very good power. It deals an excellent amount of damage and also knocks back an enemy, so its a decent move to use should a Wizard or Priest have an enemy wailing on them. Sadly however you cannot target yourself with this. This is also one of the few powers capable of Focus generation, with the amount of damage it deals, this will generate a lot more than most weapons you'll have during the early parts of the game!

     

    Mind Blades

    A decent AoE power, this move does less damage than Soul Shock however, but it does affect a much broader area.

     

    Mental Binding

    The old classic. Paralysis is an excellent effect and is a good way to stop a dangerous enemy in its tracks. Paralyzed enemies also make the best Focus generation targets, as such an ideal use of this power would be to open with it and then fire a shot at them and generate a huge chunk of Focus in return.

     

    Another thing that makes this power really stand out is that any enemies near the paralyzed target get inflicted with Stuck, making this useful even for controlling groups. Its duration though is very short, but its still there.

     

    Phantom Foes

    This power has a very long duration and a very large radius. Its very useful for triggering Sneak Attacks, especially in areas where setting up flanks is difficult due to the narrow space, like a lot of indoor battles. However, this does get suppressed by other afflictions that lower Deflection, including Blind.

     

    Psychovampiric Shield

    Oh hey I wrote about this recently. Copy/Paste

     

    +25 Deflection is pretty nice, but I've always preferred this Power for its -10 Resolve.

     

    -10 Resolve from Psychovampiric Shield is a great way to lower an enemy's deflection and will defense. It also lowers their Concentration as well which great for Interrupting. This also doesn't get suppressed from Miasma of Dull Mindness which means you can get a -16 Resolve on one enemy target. It also doesn't get suppressed by Wild Leech either which could potentially lead to a very tasty -20 Resolve, however Wild Leech does pick a random attribute so it isn't exactly reliable

     

    Wild Leech doesn't get suppressed by Miasma either, so in theory you could stack all three and potentially get an incredible -26 Resolve! But I haven't actually tested it, and it would be difficult to test since Wild Leech is so random.

     

    Recall Agony

    The Cipher's answer to Combusting Wounds, though it unfortunately only affects a single target. Functionally though, you would use this in the same manner as you would use Combusting Wounds by pairing it with a lot quick rapid hitting attacks and DoT effects. This power also stacks with Combusting Wounds, though ticks from Combusting Wounds won't trigger any damage from this and vice versa.

     

    3rd-level Powers

    Ectopsychic Echo

    The most famous (infamous?) power in the Cipher's arsenal. Much like Antipathetic Field, this power deals enormous amount of damage, rivaling the likes of the Wizard's Bitter Mooring! However what makes this power even better is that you can tether to an ally with it, and this power has no friendly fire attached, making it much more user friendly. Attaching this to a melee character at the start of a combat and having him move around behind the enemy lines is an effective use of the power, and can potentially make this the Cipher's best source of AoE damage even.

     

    Fractured Volition

    This power is a massive debuff to enemy defenses, making it a pretty ideal power to make use of against major targets. If you have other sources of Hobbled and Weakened though, you may want to pass on this.

     

    Pain Link

    A decent "AoE" attack. Cast this on one of your tanks, and watch enemies get their damage reflected back at them each time they score a hit. One of the main reasons to take this power though is the fact that this can be cast outside of battle. It has a pretty good duration to boot as well.

     

    Puppet Master

    Whisper of Treason will usually be a better use of Focus since Charmed does nearly the same thing as Dominate, costs significantly less Focus and has a much longer range. Puppet Master does have a few things going for it though; for one it has longer duration than Whisper of Treason. Dominate also doesn't incur a massive penalty to accuracy and defenses like Charmed does, making a Dominated target much more of a potent threat to their own allies.

     

    Secret Horrors

    Oh man, I love this. This power inflicts Sickened and Frightened in a wide area, which excellent for lowering enemy defenses. This power is really good if your packing a lot of casters as this will make Fort-based spells much easier to use. Frightened is also good since it lowers Will, so this power can also work as an accuracy boost for your Cipher.

     

    Soul Ignition

    This is a pretty powerful DoT effect, but it only applies to a single target. Still the damage is good and its useful for generating hits out of Combusting Wounds or Recall Agony.

     

    4th-level Powers

    Body Attunement

    Lowering enemy DR is always a good to have. This is also gives you sizable boost to your own DR which can be handy in some situations.

     

    Mind Lance

    This is a very damaging AoE attack, it is however a line based AoE so you'll most likely have to adjust your positioning in order to avoid damaging your own allies with this. As a line AoE, this also puts it at slight odds with Ectopsychic Echo and Antipathetic Field.

     

    Pain Block

    This is the Cipher's one and only healing power, its a pretty good one though. It heals for a decent amount and also gives a delicious +10 DR to the affected ally.

     

    Silent Scream

    This power may seem less impressive than Mind Lance until you realize that this baby deals Raw damage. Which means it flat out ignores DR, making this an incredibly deadly AoE attack. It also inflicts Stunned on the primary target as well, which you can also use to gain back the Focus you spent on this power too.

     

    Wild Leech

    This power can seem unreliable since it affects a random attribute so you don't have too much control over it. It is however a -10 to a random attribute so the effects will still be felt regardless of what it affects. This also in turn gives you a +10 bonus to random attribute which can be very powerful since it has a fairly good chance of affecting one of your primary attributes.

     

    5th-level Powers

    Borrowed Instinct

    What an incredible power. -8 to Intelligence and Perception is pretty dang good, but to add to it you also get all kinds of accuracy and defensive bonuses as well!

     

    Ringleader

    AoE Charmed and Dominate is as good as it sounds. I'm not a huge fan of this though, as its range is painfully short, and will likely have the Cipher standing next to their intended target.

     

    Detonate

    Yep, that's a lot of raw damage. It also deals a sizable amount of Crush damage should you kill a target with this, which will probably deal more damage to your own allies than the enemies, so use this with caution.

     

    Tactical Meld

    This may seem underwhelming since you can get the same thing from Borrowed Instinct, however this power can be used outside of combat (You need Greater Focus however). Also Borrowed Instinct needs to actually land on the target in order for you to gain its bonuses. Against, say, a dragon, you can't always afford the luxury.

     

    6th-level Powers

    Amplified Wave

    This deals a decent amount of Crush damage and affects a wide area. The real reason you want to use this though is the fact this also inflicts Prone. Coupled with its massive AoE, this is an excellent CC tool. It does cost an enormous amount of Focus however.

     

    Disintegration

    Quite possibly the most powerful DoT effect in the game, this power deals colossal amounts of raw damage. Be very careful though, as enemies that die while under its effects will leave behind no loot.

     

    Mind Plague

    AoE confuse is pretty good and this power disperses in a wide area too. However 60 Focus is hard to justify for it, especially when you can just use Scrolls of Confusion for similar effects.

     

    7th-level Powers

    Stasis Shell

    This power can be used to lock out an enemy from combat, they won't be able to take any damage however. This makes it highly situational, and with a 70 Focus cost, its almost not worth even using.

     

    Time Parasite

    A combination of Deleterious Alacrity of Motion and Arduous Delay of Motion. Not a bad combo by any means but it does cost an enormous 70 Focus. Its a pretty good power but the high Focus cost limits its use greatly.

     

    Equipment

    This I confess is an area I'm not very good at. What I typically run though is:

    Weapon 1: Scon Mica's Roar

    Weapon 2: Golden Gaze

    Head: Helm of Darksee

    Body: Vengiatta Rugia

    Neck: Talisman of the Unconquerable

    Hands: Pilferer's Grip

    Feet: Glanfathan Stalking Boots

    Waist: Girdle of Maegfolc Might

    Ring 1: Ring of Protection

    Ring 2: Ring of Thorns

     

    Which decent but I'm sure many of you can think of better builds then that. I won't really delve into this though, as there's a ton of items and I'll be here forever trying to cover them all. So here's a brief list on some other good choices.

     

    Weapon 1: Scon Mica's Roar, Lead Splitter, Dulcanale, Fellstroke, Persistence, Stormcaller, The Rain of Godagh Field, Borresaine, Lenas Êr, Stormcaller

    Weapon 2: Golden Gaze, Pretty Pretty's Rib

    Head: Helm of Darksee, Hermit's Hat, Stag Helm, Azalin's Helmet, Tempered Helm

    Body: Vengiatta Rugia, Starlit Garb, Raiment of Wael's Eyes, Angio's Gambeson, just plain boring enchanted Clothing

    Neck: Talisman of the Unconquerable

    Hands: Pilferer's Grip, Bracers of All-Consuming Rage, Gauntlets of Swift Action, Gauntlets of Accuracy, Ryona's Vambraces, Gloves of Manipulation, Rabbit Fur Gloves

    Feet: Glanfathan Stalking Boots, Boots of Speed, Boot of Stealth, Malina's Boots

    Waist: Girdle of Maegfolc Might, Broad Belt of Power, Sentinel's Girdle, Belt of Stelgaer, Coil of Resourcefulness

    Rings: Ring of Protection, Ring of Thorns, Ring of Searing Flames, Ring of Unshackling, Pensiavi mes Rèi, Sigil of the Arcane, Frigid Claim, Bartender's Ring

     

    Conclusion

    I have probably missed a TON of things. So go yell at me for anything I missed or anything I may be unaware of.

    Hi all,

    I came across this via a google search. Is the review of cipher powers still accurate ?

     

    Thank you.

     

    Aginorh

  3.  

     

    - Which armor should I get for her (I still have the lame fine skin armor) ?

     

    I was wondering if an heavier armor would really hamper her dmg output. I see that when my tanks are bypassed she can be put down rather quickly

    Also

     

    - (side question) when engaged in melee, is it worth to disengage and try to run away while someone else picks the enemy, or shall I switch to melee weapons to hold better ?

     

     

    When you have a lightly armored ranger or other back liners, it's often helpful to have them have a weapon and shield option for self defense to get some additional deflection from the shield.

     

    As for run away vs stand your ground, I suppose that it depends on the situation.  Sometimes it can be helpful to stand your ground so that a team mate doesn't have to chase down the enemy, which he might have to do, if you try to disengage and run away.  Maybe let one of your front liners engage this enemy to draw its attention and THEN have the back liner disengage.  Also, if possible, perhaps you could have a spell caster cast a spell that would temporarily hold or stun or whatever the enemy so that your engaged backliner can more safely retreat without risk.

     

    Thank you, it makes sense. I become slightly more skilled to protect her has my game time goes on...

     

    On a side note, does anyone know if you get a penalty for using a bow in melee ? I.e penalty to defense (compared to having 2 small weapons for example), and/or a penalty to accuracy ? What I mean by that, is are you supposed to immediately switch to melee weapon when engaged ?

  4. Combusting wounds is a little gem of a spell, ive heard alot of people say that its useless but its totally not. For example with wizard with maxed out blast and high intel, hit alacrity, minor blights, then cast combusting wounds on the mob cluster and they attack them with kalakoths, its actually silly OP.

    Good with barbs too tho.

    Yes sounds great but my party has no wizard :(

     

    Otherwise I tested raedric's keep with "MaxQuest formula" and it's a lot easier

     

    1. dual wield DPS Barb really wipes clean the trash and keeps high HPs (with regen of course, gaun's share flail and +50% heal)

    2. tank paladin is barely hit and can save the squishies with lay on hands while engaging 2 ppl

    3. Cipher kills a lot, charms paralyses, even if a bit slower with breastplate, dies less ;-)

    4. Druid does real punishing dmg in bear form, and also got heavy armor to counter his low HPs

     

    Cipher and Druid are slower with heavy armor but they are much less chased. In a big opened area it's really easier, and at the contrary of a shock point 2 ppl wide, the Druid can hit for real. He could of course use a weapon with reach but I did not find a good one yet, and it won't work in bear form.

  5. Nobody keeps aggro very well - except squishies. ;)

     

    Enemies will always target squishies if they can and eat disengagement attacks to reach them. No amount of engagement slots will change that very much. 

     

    Binding rope on a front liner is cool because it stucks enemies who already hit you. Perfect for a barb with HoF if the enemies can't get away from you.

     

    The barb will not be a great damage dealer until lvl 11 when he gets Heart of Fury. Then he will be at the top of the list after few fights. ;) Until then, his main focus should be debuffing enemies with fear and daze and other stuff. Also helps your party members to stay alive, not only the barb. 

    Yes indeed ! Now I really block the way to my cipher believe me ;-)

     

    Thing is the barb is also very slow.

  6. Actually the final encounter in Eothas temple was quite tough, even if doable.

     

    At this party level (nearly 4, but cipher is 4 already), the barb tank did not much damage (1500 till now), Paladin 2400 dmg but rather squishy, Druid 3500 dmg (hits hard but also squishy), and Cipher 5500.

    Barb does tank ok but does not keep agro (no skill) and he has few possibilities to interrupt etc.

     

    I will try Maxquest formula :)

  7. ^ Sounds solid. 

    I am not completely sure on the paladin's niche through.

    I never played with a dw-paladin, but I am a bit concerned with his dps after the FoD alpha-strike.

    If those who have played with that build and it provided a decent dps contribution, while having zero problems keeping enemy frontline at bay, than it's ok.

     

    A backup/alternative plan could be to make your barb a little more dps'y, while paladin more tanky.

    My current party has a core similar to yours. Although I've gone for:

    - a dw-sabre-barb

    - tank-support darcozzi paladin (outwarn buckler + shame or glory) without FoD

     

    Barb is one of main dps'ers during trash fights. But will be able to tank dragons if needed, with 1H+Dragon Maw.

    Paladin is a pure tank. He deals like 5-10% of party damage; but is great at body/passage blocking plus has lots of buffs/scrolls.

    Alternative tactic I use is: send paladin to solo tank the dragon. While keep barbarian with the rest of group. Minions flock around. Get CC'ed and Carnage/HoF/BB served. I like the flexibility, when I can approach any encounter in at least two different ways.

     

    Btw, such tanky paladin requires zero supervision. While everything that jumps on Barbarian from another flank, gets instantly paralyzed by cipher. So their health even through goes slowly down over multiple encounters, does that at the same rate. There is no feel that someone drags the party down or force it rest more often than the other members do.

     

    Sounds good backup/alternative. But I will try to stick to this team unless it appears really too difficult, and If it does I will use your backup, because I do not want to hire more than those 4 cold blood killers. It's part of my modest challenge to stay with 4 people (and also playing an evil aligned party).

     

    I also like the originality of these builds we'll see  how it goes.

    • Like 1
  8. So I went on and tried my 4 members party like this, a 4 pale elves gang (hard mode) !

     

    pos1 : Barb tank based on Golden Dragon, The from Boeroer)

    pos2:  DPS Paladin (dual wield, based on Bleak Walker )

    pos3: bow ranged  Cipher cc+Aoe (15/8/16/18/16/5)

    pos4 : Druid  caster (high might / per / int, low con /res medium dex), bear form

     

    Just level 3-4 atm, and only the druid is relatively less useful (since very few spells at that level and squishy), but i'll give him a staff and bow to do a little DPS.

    Barb is ok with tanking, Paladin and Cipher hit hard. Focus goes up quite fast with the bow and high dex.

     

    EDIT : it is also worth mentioning this  party is a lot of fun to play !

  9. Actually it's totally fine to do Heart of Fury with Badgradr's Barricade or Dragon's Maw. No switching needed. Especially when your endurance drops a HoF with Dragon's Maw will do good damage and fully heal you at the same time. I did a playthrough with this barb tank guy and he was good (no need to min max, alsoworks with balanced stats): The Golden Dragon

    Ok nice, but how about early game ? You just give him a heavy shield and sabre ?

  10.  

    Makes a lot of sense thank you for all the details!

    No problem)

     

    So considering your V1, I would think :

     

    pos1 : Barb tank (with shield obviously, but still doing dmg (and Aoe), based on the Golden Dragon build from Boeroer)

    pos2:  DPS Paladin (2 handed probably I still have to check builds)

    pos3: ranged versatile Cipher cc+Aoe

    pos4 : versatile (by definition) Druid ?

    Barb can be used as dragon-tank; but in usual encounters better use him as dw-dps.

     

    So it's a barb (in plate and with Shod-in-Faith boots) with high mig/con/int and low resolve; dual-wielding sabres in early game; and [We-Toki + Rimecutter] or [dual-Purgatory] in the late game. And who switches to MH + Dragon Maw shield after he has used his Barbaric Blow and Heart of Fury.

     

    I will elaborate on paladin + druid later.

     

    Ok so a dps build for the Barb with high con 

  11.  

    Why would pale elf be safer from spectres?

    As JerekKruger already said, it's because of frost resist. Specifically:

    - spectres deal freeze damage (via auto-attacks)

    - some of them explode on death, again dealing freeze damage

    - shades do have draining freeze ability, which is a paralyze + deal high freeze damage. When they decide whom to attack with it, they give a preference to targets with lowest freeze DR.

     

    But is  resolution at 3 not painful for will saves?

    Having a will defense at 40 or 60, will make no real difference as you are likely to get affected by respective effects anyway.

    Similar situation is when you try to solo a dragon. You either pump your defenses; or don't give a damn about them at all, and look for other means to circumvent the problem.

    In your case circumvention would be: including a paladin/priest/or having high lore + preemptive disabling of enemy monsters that try to charm/confuse/dominate your party members.

     

    Note: for a ranged cipher, resolve is more useful because of concentration, rather than deflection or will. But still, you don't want to be hit at all; so you either plan to not get hit and drop resolve; or you select a more sturdy (melee plate; or leather/blunderbuss) variant of cipher. 

     

    On  the party I was thinking to  try Aloth + Eder + Durance and MC since rolled characters will suffer from lower level. But maybe it's better to roll specific NPCs ?

    You will have a party of 4. While the number of enemies will remain the same. This means you will need enough AoE. While also:

    1. have a dedicated (high fort/reflex/hp) tank against dragons

    2. offtank that would be able to cover your flank.

    3. dps + cc

    4. and the last spot is flexible

     

    The 3rd spot is taken by your MC cipher.

    The 1st could be barbarian, paladin or monk.

     

    So

    V1:

    pos1. Barbarian; pos3. Cipher; These have good synergy with melee paladin and melee-or-ranged: priest, wizard, druid and 2nd cipher.

    V2:

    pos1. Paladin; pos3. Cipher; You could complement it with a pos2. Chanter offtank (via Dragon Thrashed) and pos4. Cipher/Druid

    V3

    pos1. Monk pos3. Cipher; You could complement it with a pos2. Paladin and pos4. Priest/Druid

     

    Now a note about predefined companions:

    - Their stats are not bad; but they fit into specific niches. E.g. depending on lineup, you might need one sort of priest or another.

    - Kana fits nicely into the role of pos2 offtank for V2 lineup. Also having a paladin, cipher and druid in the group will guarantee that he won't fall down.

    - Durance is a meh debuffer, and has too high resolve. I would not use him in V1. But he could fit into V3 and attack with his quarterstaff.

    - Pallegina has a bit bland stuffs; but give her mig/int items she will greatly fit in V3 and especially in V1.

    - Hiravias fits perfectly in V3. 

    - GM fits nicely in V2.

     

    Makes a lot of sense thank you for all the details !

     

    So considering your V1, I would think :

     

    pos1 : Barb tank (with shield obviously, but still doing dmg (and Aoe), based on the Golden Dragon build from Boeroer)

    pos2:  DPS Paladin (2 handed probably I still have to check builds)

    pos3: ranged versatile Cipher cc+Aoe

    pos4 : versatile (by definition) Druid ?

     

    I would think a Druid can fit heal and aoe dmg in one class, but of course less efficiently than a typical priest and wiz ?

    Or would a buff/debuff/heal priest be better (easier) ?

     

    With this party in mind I would clearly roll 3 NPCs from start. I hope it is not too much of a penalty early game.

  12.  

    Why would pale elf be safer from spectres ?

     

    Cold resist.

     

    Regarding purpose I would think versatility is mandatory in my small group. But is  resolution at 3 not painful for will saves ?

    On  the party I was thinking to  try Aloth + Eder + Durance and MC since rolled characters will suffer from lower level. But maybe it's better to roll specific NPCs ?

     

     

    Resolution 3 is absolutely great if you can reliable avoid anything ever attacking your Cipher (and after level 15 when you can use Defensive Mindweb to make your whole party super tanky). Personally I don't like dumping stats as low as 3, so I might consider something like

     

    14/8/16/16/16/8

     

    For a versatile build. At level 15 you might want to respect since Defensive Mindweb is so powerful.

     

    Any particular reason you've chosen Aloth, Edér and Durance as your companions?

     

    Thank you. Regarding companions, that was just a first idea in fact, to have tank+priest+wiz.

    Eder is tanky enough. Aloth decent wizard, and Durance well, is ok for buffs and heals ?

  13.  

    Race would be pale elf, with the concept of a lonely "cursed" hunter having to leave home

    weapons : arquebuse (or BB but Arquebuse preferred regarding background / roleplay), bow, pike (2h sword as an alternative)

    Wait, do you want a ranged or actually melee cipher (alpha-strike with blunderbuss and switch to pike)? :)

     

    Do you think this could result in a gimp MC with all my specific background (especially on hard mode with a small party)

    My first thought was that for a ranged cipher, wood elf would be the preferred race. But since you are going to have a small party, pale elf could be decent for a squishy cipher, as you will attract much less attention from the spectres, shades and alike.

     

     

    The idea is that I want to play a ranged Cipher without too much micro management, and  with a specific  roleplay / background.

    Not much micro means warbows. Specifically: take Rain of Goddath or Cloudpiercer and stick to it.

    As for stat spread it depends on what niche in your group, do you want your cipher to fit:

    - cc: 13/8/18/18/18/3

    - aoe-dmg: 18/8/17/17/15/3

    - versatile: 15/8/18/18/16/3

     

    For armor, I would take Durance Robe or Vailian Clothing. Later you could consider Starlit Garb, Raiment of Wael's Eyes or Angio's Gambeson. And durganize them ofc.

    From mandatory items there are only Gauntlets of Swift Action. And Talisman of the Unconquerable if you can guarantee having endurance above the threshold.

    From mandatory skills: 4 survival.

     

    Make Mental Binding your best friend, and paralyzed targets your focus batteries.

    Abuse Whisper of Treason and Ectopsychic Echo.

    Soul Shock has superb damage per focus coefficient and is very effective vs low-DR xaurips.

    Optimize your focus generation to the point, where you can chain Amplified Waves and keep non-immune enemies perma-prone.

    Give Detonate and Disintegration a try.

    Time Parasite is great. And Defensive Mindweb plus Reaping Knives (on a barb) even better.

     

    Thank you for your reply.

    In fact regarding weapons I was thinking of pike as a last resort weapon (would need arms bearer still)

     

    Why would pale elf be safer from spectres ?

     

    Regarding purpose I would think versatility is mandatory in my small group. But is  resolution at 3 not painful for will saves ?

    On  the party I was thinking to  try Aloth + Eder + Durance and MC since rolled characters will suffer from lower level. But maybe it's better to roll specific NPCs ?

  14. Hi again all,

     

    I finally got quite curious about Ciphers, and I would like to play one as MC for my next run (should be in hard mode, temptatively 4 people party but to be seen).

     

    The idea is that I want to play a ranged Cipher without too much micro management, and  with a specific  roleplay / background.

     

    Race would be pale elf, with the concept of a lonely "cursed" hunter having to leave home

    weapons : arquebuse (or BB but Arquebuse preferred regarding background / roleplay), bow, pike (2h sword as an alternative)

     

    I was wondering which stats and talents would be appropriate ? Do you think this could result in a gimp MC with all my specific background (especially on hard mode with a small party) ? I don't know Cipher skills at all so difficult to choose without risk.

     

    I know this must have been said many times, but I can't find a build close to this one on the forum.

     

    Again many thanks for your great insights.

     

    Aginorh

     

     

     

  15.  

    Based on your advice (thanks to all), and since I have no rogue, I'll put Aloth on the job with the 1 point bonus. Why Durance would be better if I may ask ? Need less other skills ?

    A priest who focuses on buffing and healing needs no accuracy bonuses. And if he's in the back row and is not too squishy, he also doesn't need those healing bonsus very badly. So he can skip survival altogether (or only take a few points). Lore is also not necessary because priests already have great spells like prayers and the damaging scrolls are bad for them (as long as they are not self buffing all the time) because they have terrible base accuracy right from the start. So, pumping mechanics on a supporter priest can be a good thing without too many drawbacks. If your priest is build in an offensive way then it's not a smart move though.

     

    Plus: DUrance has a bonus right from the start. I guess because of being a priest of Magran and so on.

     

    Ah yes I got it. Brilliant, it all makes sense, and also I suppose it's worth to invest in survival for Aloth...

  16. This probably wont be the most helpful answer, but for me my motivation is laziness, so my Mechanic is always my tank. He's at the front of the formation anyway, so he's also my Mechanic, two birds with one stone. I dislike having to rearrange my party for every mob, pulling my Mechanic back into formation and so on. So my party moves around like a phalanx who can immediately jump into combat. It's probably not the most optimal choice, but for me it's a great quality of life boost.

    Good point ! It was also part of my initial decision... Now "my Durance" is geared quite tanky so he can stay safely on second row. It should work :)

  17. My first play through I think I used Aloth until I came across Durance, who seemed to have a good bit of mechanics when I found him. It took me a while to get used to the idea that I didn't _need_ a rogue. As such it was problematic to get someone with high enough Mech points to be useful later in the game until I got used to the notion of respecing someone to better fit the bill. I still felt like I never got it right.

     

    So the next playthrough I "hired" a rogue. I really enjoyed that character and decided to restart the game as a rogue. That was a lot of fun.

     

    This playthrough I decided to use Grieving Mother (now that I better understand ciphers. I usually dropped her quickly after finding her, not understanding how useful a cipher can be. I mean most of the enemies were dead. How could a mindbender affect undead? Seemed like built in immunity to me.) Besides I want to finally complete her quest. But once again I keep hitting the ceiling of how much I can put into her Mech points in WM I Durgan's Battery quests. So I ditched her for a short while and used the NPC mechanical rogue.

     

    Now she's back and we'll see how she does. I respeced her to max Mech points and Weapon Focus the Storm-thingy hunting bow.

     

    Joe

    OK great thanks, I had not seen that Durance started with high mechanics skill.

  18. My approach:

     

    For barb: always survial. I try to reach 14 in order to get +60% healing bonus when I need it and also have a good acc bonus at hand if I need it. Atheltics is useless for me because it takes too long to cast and recover and the barb has enough other possible sources of healing (draining, Savage Defiance, Veteran's Recovery, Shod-in-Faith boots and so on).

    I can't emphasize too much on how awesome +60% healing is when combined with +25% from an item and high might.

     

    Mechanics I usually give to a rogue. If there's no rogue I will give it to a wizard or a priest - especially when it's a buffing/healing priest with low PER.

    Based on your advice (thanks to all), and since I have no rogue, I'll put Aloth on the job with the 1 point bonus. Why Durance would be better if I may ask ? Need less other skills ?

  19. Very good question.

     

    When I was starting my second playthrough, I have given that enough of thought.

    There are few things that we can take in consideration:

    - you need one mechanics guy;

    - you would want your steady dps guys have 4 or 10 survival for the bonus accuracy vs creature

    - you might want your burst characters with no high bonus dmg coefficients (like a quick-switching ranger) to have 6 or 12 survival for the bonus damage vs flanked

    - you might want a character with maxed per and int (if you have such) to have ability to cast cc-scrolls

    - you might want a character with maxed mig and int (if you have such) to have ability to cast healing-scrolls

    - you might want a character with maxed mig, int and per (if you have such) to have ability to cast aoe dmg-scrolls

    - you might want to take into account opportunity cost

    .- every moment a character is using a scroll, he is not doing something else

    .- a character with low amount of abilities or spells, might be partially "idling" if he doesn't have the ability to use scrolls.

    - chanters, ciphers and wizards get a +1 bonus to mechanics

    - rogues get a +2 bonus to mechanics

     

    Taking into account all of the above, my mech guy would be (in descending order):

    1. cipher

    - because he doesn't really need scrolls (as he'd better keep attacking and using powers); and can take 4 points in survival and bump the rest in mechanics

    - has innate +1 bonus

    2. rogue

    - but only if my party is short on CC, because otherwise I'd like to exploit deathblows+scrolls combinations (+30 starting acc). On the other hand, if my party is short on CC, why do I have a rogue in the group? This would also mean that rogue has to be able to use cc-scrolls, so back to lore again.

    - has innate +2 bonus

    3. wizard

    - because wizard has low starting acc and I don't always skill lore on them

    - because he already has enough stuff to do in a fight

    - because he also has a +1 bonus to mechanics

     

     

    On a wider perspective I was also wondering which skills are really useful for a Barb.

    Depends on the type of that barbarian.

    - for a dps or interrupt barb: [4 or 10] in survival; or [6 or 12] in survival if you have a cipher with Phantom Foes.

    - for a cc/interrupt barb: [4 or 10] in survival for the extra acc

    - for a tank barb: could consider [8 or 14] in survival for the extra healing

    - if barb has maxed int: could consider investing in lore. Specifically:

    .- maxed [int]: any defensive scrolls

    .- maxed combination of [int + per]: could consider 6 in lore for scrolls of paralysis | or maybe even 8 for confusion + valor (although valor doesn't require per)

    .- maxed combination of [mig + int]: could consider 8 in lore for scrolls of moonwell

    .- maxed combination of [mig + int + per]: could consider 10 in lore for scrolls of maelstrom, boiling spray and insect swarm

    Very interesting thank you, in fact my barb stats are the one you advised me for a dps dual wielding build :) I will double check and see for the scrolls, it can be helpful when fight is difficult.

  20. Hi again,

     

    It seems like a small topic probably, but on my side I am a bit frustrated because on two instances I had not sufficient skill to disarm traps (example in 8th level of Caed Nua), and also it takes a lot of skill points.

     

    Initially I chose to have my Barb PC doing the mechanics, because I thought a good idea to have someone strong to scout ahead (in case he is discovered). Now at level 8 I have seen it is quite useless because I always scout with a full party, given how stealth works...

     

    So my question is who is filling the role in your party ? And is it really a waste to have my Barb do it ?

    I am aware that I can build some +mechanics rest building at my stronghold, but it seems like a pain to have to come back here all the time (and also I would lose the other bonuses available).

     

    I have Aloth, Sagani, Eder, Pellegina, and Durance as NPCs.

     

    On a wider perspective I was also wondering which skills are really useful for a Barb.

     

     

    Thank you.

     

     

    Aginorh

     

  21. Hi everyone,

     

    Since my initial post on choosing a new main character I have done pretty well with my barbarian and really enjoyed the game (now nearly level 8) in normal mode.

     

    In this run I chose to hire Sagani quite quickly (lvl 4) and specced her in "pet DPS".

     

    She now does tons of damage with the fox and even more with predator sense and using Persistence hunting bow (+50% dmg for the fox all the time basically) (http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Persistence).

     

    I have a few basic questions :

     

    - Which armor should I get for her (I still have the lame fine skin armor) ?

     

    I was wondering if an heavier armor would really hamper her dmg output. I see that when my tanks are bypassed she can be put down rather quickly

    Also

     

    - (side question) when engaged in melee, is it worth to disengage and try to run away while someone else picks the enemy, or shall I switch to melee weapons to hold better ?

     

    And

     

    - Is this Persistence bow a good choice or are there much better alternatives at this level ? Is it worth speccing in hunting bows ?

     

    Thanks a lot in advance !

     

    Aginorh

     

     

     

     

     

     

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