Zoodbourgh
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Posts posted by Zoodbourgh
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Oh I'm not against romances globally, I'm only against romances between main PC and companions because those are either a massive waste of resources, woefully underdeveloped or forced. If companions are going to romance each other that's perfectly fine, but don't put huge amounts of work into something that only minor % of playerbase is ever going to see (or something that'll become mandatory for said companion because that's where most of his/her content is)
Aren't you talking about character development at its worst, though? A mechanic that is a "massive waste of resources, woefully underdeveloped or forced" could be improved into something that is "developed," and "forced" could be improved into something that is "natural." We keep talking about the past of video games and how certain aspects of character development are money pits, but doesn't that make us reiterate "It didn't work before, so let's stop trying"? Why should we give up?
Further, almost every aspect of an RPG is something that only a "minor % of playerbase" is ever going to see. A lot of people who played PoE never finished the game. There are some mechanics in the game that have eluded people, including myself, and there are toooons of dialogue options that you can't choose unless you decide to be of certain race or background at the beginning of the game. PoE is a game all about choices and consequences, and because people make different choices, they're going to experience the story in certain ways and miss things that other people saw. For example, if your character has high Might, you can intimidate people. If your character doesn't have high Might, then, of course, that option will not be open to you. There are so many choices in the game that only show up to a "minor % of playerbase," so saying that another mechanic that follows in the same vein should not be implemented would therefore mean NOTHING should be left up to player choice. If you really think that's the case, why do you play RPGs?
As for the artistic freedom of the writers... seriously, who cares? It's not their individual project. This is a game, it's a collaborative entertainment product, a commercial venture. The aim here isn't to offer a platform to budding new writers; as a rule, it is (in a general sense) to make a good and/or commercially successful game, and the artistic freedom of the people working on it are inherently constrained by that. So whether fulfilling these aims should involve putting in romances, and what the content of them should be, is not up to an indivual writers (if the company has any sense).
That's an interesting point, if a little disheartening. I don't see why games have to only be about business sense; though I do understand that money is important to a lot of people, and big games with branching paths and complicated systems cannot be made without it, unless of course the writers and programmers were willing to work for free (highly unlikely ). Also, there is the argument that PoE was only possible because of all the Kickstarter Backers who supported the project. It's understandable that the project should be what the Backers want. However, there are games that are made by one person, and this freedom allows for a story and gameplay not constrained by what the investors and the audience want. Because of this, I don't think all games are merely "commercial ventures," nor do I think they have to be in order to be successful. I agree that video games are not usually a "platform for budding writers"; yet on the other hand, I don't see why they can't be. A story also doesn't have to be told by a writer; gameplay is just as strong a force for narrative. In my original post, I didn't mean to say that the design of the game should be up to individual writers--I only meant that it would be cool if people did away with strong prejudices toward certain elements of human nature, like romance.
I voted for you lol. I guess your topic won't be super popular though. But i'm totally with you on this one. There are people who are not against romances (like me) for the exact reasons you explained. It's true that a well written and well developed romance could bring new opportunities for character development in the roleplay aspect of things.
alala... I guess most people were fed up with what Bioware did (am i wrong? at least i were). I disliked most romances in Dragon Age Origins. For some reason it became too systematic, and, probably for the sake of some idea of "no segregation", everyone had to be bi (and it was sex feast at the camp yohou!)... Well one would have been ok. I did not need some fan service, either (the music wrapping these naked bodies by the firecamp.... :s). The one with Allistair could be ok-ish, probably because it involved some possible character development with Alistair, which could impact the main storyline in the end.
But if the dev remember that their players have more than 12 years old, i'm sure that they can come up with romances which feel natural, and are inscribed in the story developement, and even the world. With mature stakes for the characters involved (not themes, spare me the mature themes, please). Something that can make characters evolve for really good reasons. I think this option could be a good option. Unless everyone start loving everyone after 1H of gameplay, of course.
Thanks I agree! I think maturity is a huge factor, as well. It seems that a lot of RPGs take "mature" to mean "sexual," and I don't think those two things are remotely related
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It seems that a lot of people have a great dislike toward romance in RPGs, and in the other topic I was reading (http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/86950-pillars-of-eternity-2-wish-list-and-suggestions/) it was voiced that romance is not welcome in PoE II. To me, saying "Don't put romance in the game" is similar to saying "I want all the characters in PoE II to act in a way that I approve of." Should we really limit the writers by telling them "We don't want you to have the freedom to write the characters you want to write"? As someone who enjoys writing, when I write a character I try to understand what the character really wants. If a character has no interest in romance, either because of the character's nature or what the character has been through, then so be it; but I don't want to place an artificial limit on my character's development by restricting his or her attachment to other characters in the story. Who am I to say he or she cannot develop romantic attachments to others? It's not my job to limit my characters; it's my job to write them as they are--to be descriptive rather than prescriptive. It just seems unfair to ask for "no romances," because if we want interesting, gritty, moving, or deep characters, then why would we want to restrict and simplify potential outcomes of their character development?
Don't we want more freedom to roleplay whomever we wish? Why shouldn't we extend that same freedom to the other characters in the story--to let them be whomever they want to be?
Now, I'm not asking that every character be a love interest; I hope I haven't conveyed that. I'm just trying to get at the fact that writers oftentimes need freedom from outside prejudice to fully develop a character--whether that prejudice be of race, creed, or romance options (or lack thereof). If a writer is limited by what his or her readers are prejudiced against, then the character will suffer for it. That is not to say a writer shouldn't make a prejudiced character ; on the contrary, freedom from outside forces allows the writer to make controversial characters. By this I mean that artistic freedom allows deep characters to made, such as characters with controversial pasts or outlooks. The writer had to be open-minded enough to write that racist or rude character, and the audience has to in turn be open-minded enough to interact with that character.
Honestly, to me, saying that we don't want romances hints at a deeper problem, and not just that we've had a history of bad romances in video games: a suggestion like "No romances!" shows just how consumer-centered video games are. How can we expect good writing or meaningful choices in games when we demand what characters should or should do, when we demand that artistic freedom be taken away? If we treat video games like burgers--"I'll take a double patty with extra sauce, no onions."--then we won't help video games become more than just a product to be consumed and thrown away.
If you've read this entire spiel, thank you so much.- 3
Writing a character (and romances, too?)
in Pillars of Eternity: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS)
Posted
I agree that games take imagination, time, and dedication. However, there are tons of games made by people in their free time with branching paths--or, at the least, with choices and consequences: http://www.gamesradar.com/10-games-developed-entirely-one-person/ , https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-best-games-designed-and-built-by-only-one-person
I'm basing "the notion [ . . . ] that the dislike of, or opposition to, romances in games/RPGs is due to a prejudice to specific elements of human nature like romance" on posts like the one Nonek made, but I realize now that I was being hasty. Hatred for romance topics on forums seems more-so to be a dislike for people like me, rather than for a specific aspect of human nature.
It makes sense that a lot of aspects of human nature don't get talked about in video games. But there are games about cancer (http://www.thatdragoncancer.com/#home), games about feces (http://store.steampowered.com/app/449540/), and games that aren't scripted in a traditional, linear manner (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoUKgEuskMs). I think it's a bit unfair to say that "these are things that are just not very central to the reasons people play the game in the first place," because there seems to be a demand for these games; they seem to be filling a void in story-telling and/or interaction that couldn't be achieved through a novel or some other medium. But if you're talking specifically about PoE, then I see your point and have to agree that people have myriad other reasons to play the game than the reasons I've talked about. In fact, I'm a bit anxious that my original post might not have been on-topic for this section of the forum because I think I'm more-so talking about games in general rather than PoE specifically.
I'm sorry about that. I meant to use the question as a rhetorical device, but now I see that my response was heavy-handed and extremely rude. I'll try to be more careful.