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jedipodo

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Posts posted by jedipodo

    do jedi kill their prisoners

    in Star Wars: General Discussion

    Posted

    O, yeah, that assignment: it is impossible to cite a universally (across countries, cultures, and timelines) accepted moral stance, even on extreme issues such as infantacide, canibalism, and incest. I don't want you to think I was trying to trick you, though, it really is an eye-opening exercise, and I think that it's great that you tried (screw Yoda, sometimes trying is more important than doing!). Thank you.

     

    No, I have to thank you. Our discussion really awakened my interest in philosophy.

    do jedi kill their prisoners

    in Star Wars: General Discussion

    Posted

    Okay, that isn't how I understand it to play out. Granted, I've only read the scripts (supposedly the uncut and shooting scripts, but how much can you trust what you see on the Internet?) and watched the plot and cut-scenes that made it into the licensed game. I suppose, then, that until the 19th we'll just have to say that we'll get back to one another after that (unless you've got some "in" with Lucas, and then you'd better spill, you!).  o:)

    No, sorry, no "in" with Lucas. I've read the novel. But I'm still looking forward to 19th.

     

    Now that I think about it, I've removed most of my written reply because the is almost entirely a debate about Episode III at this point, which I have yet to view.  I would, however, enjoy picking up the subject of Anakin and morality after said viewing, and would be perfectly content to return to our discussion of TSL or the hypothetical duel between Malak and Kavar.

     

    I would appreciate it, though, if you would kindly not imply  that  I do not believe in right or wrong. I do.

    Huh, who said that?! o:) Sorry, no offense intended, it was more of a question than a statement.

     

    And, if it is not oversharing to say so, after living through certain wrongs that I would not wish on the worst Sith Lord, I came to an important understanding about human beings: no matter how wicked their actions, almost no one ever believes that they are "the bad guy." Sometimes perspective is the only difference between hero and villian, between revolutionary freedom fighter and terrorist, between dangerous fundimentalist and deity-fearing church goer.

    Or maybe it is, as brain science found out, the lack of a morallity brain area? :o

    do jedi kill their prisoners

    in Star Wars: General Discussion

    Posted

    Jedipodo, can you give an example of absolute morality, accepted universally across nations, cultures and time periods? (I had to try to do this for a class, so I'm not asking you to do anything that I haven't or wouldn't try to do, I promise!). If I haven't bored you tears, that is!

     

    It's very hard to find an example for this. I must admit that I've never thought about it before.

     

    I totally agree that morality is not a law of nature. But it has much to do with people, the humans, ever since their existence (prehistoric man).

     

    For example, a human being in general does't want to be harmed, neither does he/she like it if somebody lies to him/her, killing children is resolutely abnominated, etc. The permission to act in self-defence is a universally accepted morality, too.

     

    I think the terms of "good" and "evil" (in a very raw form) already emerge from those native patterns of thought. Therefore they might not be as "relative" as one could assume.

     

    I would call it "human morality", because it has its roots in the very nature of humans. In my opinion this is the fundamental basis of morality on the scale of culture and religion.

     

    My theory is that all societies at least have these abstract concepts in common. Mostly the difference is only the different sanction following a breach of these rules.

     

    BUT, of course, how could it be otherwise, there are also extremes. There are occurrences in history and present where people have been brainwashed and where the "human morality" has been "perverted" to an unbearable degree and isn't apparent any more at first glance. Moreover, there are various individuals and groups who abolished any morals about others.

     

    The Sith cult would fall into the "perverted" category... o:)

     

    Now, please, tell me what you found out in your homework. :o

    do jedi kill their prisoners

    in Star Wars: General Discussion

    Posted

    @Cloris:

    From what you said earlier I thought I got your point. But now I'm not sure anymore.

     

    Please tell me, when you say "right thing to do", from what point of view are you looking at it?

    The only POV I could imagine you are refering to would be Darth Sidious'.

     

    Also I think Anakin did have all the facts.

    In his life he met several Sith Lords, hated them for good reason, and

    was even the one who betrayed the real identity of Palpatine to Mace Windu

    .

    Oh, and, I almost forgot, the irony is that

    it had been "good old" Palpatine who tought Anakin to kill defenseless prisoners if they are too dangerous (Dooku)

    .

     

    If you reduce the deed of Anakin to defending a helpless person and the Jedi Code (= ignoring the fact that Palpatine is the mighty Sith Lord in person, needless to say, who is already in control of the senate, the military and the courts) there would be no explanation why the Jedi (Yoda and Windu in particular) consider it the *false* and not the *right* thing to do.

    Is it that what you call relativism?

     

    *Contains spoilers!*

     

    Sorry, I thought that regarding this, I was clear that I was talking about Anakin's point of view. As I understand it, the scene that he walks in on is Mace standing over a downed Palpatine, preparing to kill him. Rather than simply attack Windu, Anakin reminds him of the Code, insisting that the Chancellor must stand trial if Mace is right but that the Jedi do not kill unarmed opponents. Mace blows him off rather than explain anything and proceeds to attack Anakin's mentor and friend, and so the boy fights Windu. How is that a reduction of the deed?

     

    It is a reduction of the deed because Anakin knew about the power of Palpatine and that the Chancellor of the Republic is the mighty Sith Lord who is behind the war and everything. The Sith Lord even controlled the Senate and the courts; it's a ridicioulous assumption that a trial could send this "overlord" to prision.

    Additionally, Palpatine is the one who encouraged Anakin to kill defenseless Dooku. And, very remarkably, Anakin didn't hesitate then.

     

    I think Anakin's conscience was aware that his deed was wrong, even from his own moral point of view. But he simply didn't care at this very moment.

     

    He behaved egoistic and thinks that the Sith Lord is the only one with the ability to save Padme from certain death.

     

    How could it not be morally wrong from Anakin's point of view? He mutilated one of the most respectable Jedi, a member of Anakin's "family", and betrayed everything he fighted for up to now, including his old friend and "father" Obi-Wan.

     

    Is relativism, in your opinion, an attempt to factor out the existence of "wrong", because anything you do can be justified as your own point of view which is always "right"?

     

    I come to the conclusion that Anakin definitely considered his deed to be morally wrong, but did it anyhow to save Padme.

     

    I understand that this was totally engineered by Sidious, and that both Windu and Anakin were played hardcore -- but that's the bloody brilliance of it. All the Sith Lord had to do was count on them both to try to do "the right thing," and everything would fall into place.

     

    Let me summarize: Everbody does the right thing at every time, so that everything fulfilled as predicted.

    Just as I supposed, this is exactly Darth Sidious' point of view...

     

    If I remember correctly, Paplatine doesn't reveal that he is Sidious,  the Sith Lord until after Mace's attempt on his life when he declares all other Jedi to be enemies of the Republic and activates Order 66.

     

    No, he did reveal himself to Anakin before the climatic battle with Windu (see spoiler tags above).

     

    From Mace's point of view, he was doing what was right; but so was Anakin, from his own point of view.

     

    No room for people who knowingly do the wrong?

    do jedi kill their prisoners

    in Star Wars: General Discussion

    Posted

    If you reduce the deed of Anakin to defending a helpless person and the Jedi Code (= ignoring the fact that Palpatine is the mighty Sith Lord in person, needless to say, who is already in control of the senate, the military and the courts) there would be no explanation why the Jedi (Yoda and Windu in particular) consider it the *false* and not the *right* thing to do.

    Is it that what you call relativism?

    A non-relativistic moral code is something fundamental, like "Under no circumstances would a living being have their life taken from them."

     

    Relative Morality starts to list the conditions under which it is okay to "Bend the rules", until you reach the other extreme, "Whatever you have to do to get what you want, regardless of the consequences to anyone else."

     

    I thought relativistic morality as described by relativism philosophy is when two sides look at one and the same issue with different point of views. What is "good" for somebody could be "evil" for somebody else.

     

    Therefore morality would be only a matter of how you judge an action and not whether it is fundamental or not. In my opinion this philosophy leads to a personal redefinition of morality in which any point of view can be justified.

    do jedi kill their prisoners

    in Star Wars: General Discussion

    Posted

    I believe that, by default, when you discuss right and wrong then you must take point of view into account; to a large extent point of view is what determines right or wrong.  Dark side or no, he defended his friend and the Code; in my opinion that was the right thing to do. Even the misguided can sometimes do the right thing...

     

    @Cloris:

    From what you said earlier I thought I got your point. But now I'm not sure anymore.

     

    Please tell me, when you say "right thing to do", from what point of view are you looking at it?

    The only POV I could imagine you are refering to would be Darth Sidious'.

     

    Also I think Anakin did have all the facts.

    In his life he met several Sith Lords, hated them for good reason, and

    was even the one who betrayed the real identity of Palpatine to Mace Windu

    .

    Oh, and, I almost forgot, the irony is that

    it had been "good old" Palpatine who tought Anakin to kill defenseless prisoners if they are too dangerous (Dooku)

    .

     

    If you reduce the deed of Anakin to defending a helpless person and the Jedi Code (= ignoring the fact that Palpatine is the mighty Sith Lord in person, needless to say, who is already in control of the senate, the military and the courts) there would be no explanation why the Jedi (Yoda and Windu in particular) consider it the *false* and not the *right* thing to do.

    Is it that what you call relativism?

    do jedi kill their prisoners

    in Star Wars: General Discussion

    Posted

    The Jedi didn't give a damn about Revan. They kept him alive to locate the Star Forge and they wiped his personality so that they could control him. But "the will of a sith lord is not so easily manipulated"... Tough luck.

     

    Did they wipe his/ her memory? Wasn't that done by what happened to Revan on his/ her flagship? And even so, did they manipulate him, or merely give him the chance to see the light? You seem quick to forget that Revan remembered much about his/ her past life, especially after KotOR, so how could the Council possibly have been sure he/ she wouldn't have remembered sooner... and tured back to the Dark Side?

     

    Yes, if one wants Revan to remember the location of the Star Forge it wouldn't make sense to wipe his/her entire memory. Therefore it likely didn't happen.

    Nar Shadda big fat game killing glitch.

    in Star Wars: General Discussion

    Posted

    I have exactly the same problem.

    I have 2 doors in the dock area which arent targetable.

    So no bloody way can I enter those areas.

    And sadly I cant walk through the doors...

     

    I feel your pain GCD.

    Anyone know if you can savegame-mod your way out of this with the savegame editor?

     

    I've included a screenshot of this crappy game killing bug.

    (Notice no action icon on the door)

     

    Unfortunately, it is not a bug that this door can't be opened.

    Kotor Capital Ships

    in Star Wars: General Discussion

    Posted

    BTW what is the "scientific" size of the forest moon?

    It is the minimum and maximum size range of a planetoid that can sustain an atmosphere, given that it exists in a universe with laws of physics similar to ours. (Which, according to leading opinion -- i.e. Stephen Hawking in A Brief History of Time -- is not only possible but mandatory.)

     

    Which you would know if you bothered to read any of the link you are trying to dismiss. If you are trying to support the converse ideology; i.e. that whatever the illiterate artists have written in some of the official fanboy books that accompany the film releases is canon, then you should be aware that the article also quotes from an earlier source: namely an interview with Richard Edlund of Industrial Light & Magic.

    " The Deathstar, I think, will be a lot more interesting than the one in the first Star Wars

    Kotor Capital Ships

    in Star Wars: General Discussion

    Posted

    As far as I can remember, the Imperial Star Destroyer is 1.6km long, the Executor 12.8km, the 1st Death Star 120 km in diameter and the 2nd 160km,  so that's pretty good eyeballing(term?) Drachir:)

    Depends on where you read it.

     

    The 1.6 for the ISD is absolutely correct, but if you do certain calculations, the Executor could be anywhere from 8km to 17.8km.

     

    Also, the Death Stars can be calculated to different sizes as well.

     

    Star Wars Technical Commentaries

     

    The Technical Commentaries are ridiculous. What are these silly "calculations" good for?

     

    It does create a conundrum, though. Do we interpret the movies according to scientific method or artistic whim? Does the fact that the second Death Star needed to be of diameter 900km to be scaled for the forest moon of Endor, or do we take the (albeit non-scientific) artistic wish that it was only 160km?

     

    BTW what is the "scientific" size of the forest moon?

     

    movie_bg.jpg

    KotOR2 Patch

    in Star Wars: General Discussion

    Posted

    Hey guys, i am on the part of the game where u have to fight all the guys on the sky ramp. I get past the first force shield by disabling it. When i get to the second force shield it tells me to us Bao-Dur, however,  I dont have him. I used him on the quest when u fight the sith in the jungle on Dxun. How can i get through this shield? I hope i dont have to go back and not choose him in the group for Dxun. :thumbsup:

    thanks for the help.

     

    Do you have a lightsaber?

    KotOR2 Patch

    in Star Wars: General Discussion

    Posted

    How can I get the UK patch? I don't have internet at home so I cannot use autoupdate and there is only US patch on Lucasarts pages for manual download.

    Thanks

     

    There is possibly a way to install the automatic patch file manually.

     

    One could download the zip file from Lucasarts, unzip it to the KotOR2 directory, rename the extracted file to "patch.rtp" and then execute the following line in the command window (<k2dir> is a placeholder for the actual KotOR2 directory, e.g. "c:\games\swkotor2"):

    rundll32 <k2dir>\patchw32.dll,RTPatchApply32NoCall "<k2dir>" "<k2dir>\patch.rtp"

     

    But, sadly, this is a bit complicated and it could be better to wait for the release of the manual patch.

    Who was the better lightsaber user?

    in Star Wars: General Discussion

    Posted

    The funny thing is that in the EpIII book Mace Windu admires Obi-Wan for his fighting abilites. He tells Obi that he is the most capable of all Jedi alive, and that Yoda and Windu, who are thought to be the best fighters, have weaknesses which they can only compensate with specially trained fighting techniques.

     

    After reading this I was assured to vote for Obi.

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