Jump to content

wakasm

Members
  • Content Count

    113
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by wakasm

  1. I posted on the blog post - but realized that maybe this is the better place:  

     

    Edit to my post:  Since it was not clear until going through the whole process, after you register without the Steam version, you get this message: 

     

    >    It seems like you don't yet own the Pathfinder Adventures game on Steam. Don't worry, whenever you get the game the above-mentioned items will be available to you!

     

    So I guess, yes, it works even if you don't own the game yet.  I was able to activate the 10% off without needing to use it.

     

    So is there an expiration date to do this? For those of us who decided to not buy into the Steam version at this time?  it would seem that this process requires you to actually HAVE the Steam version at this time to take advantage of it. 

     

    (it was posted elsewhere they would not be an expiration on this, so just clarifying, as I was also under the assumption I was getting a download key, something similar to humble bundles, etc that could be used elsewhere)

  2. You get Obsidian edition for price of normal Steam edition via Ambassador campaign. So while, yes - You have to buy little extra, you get all Alt Characters and much more for just 17,24€ (or 23€ base price). Take a look at Alt character prices in mobile and you quickly realize how good of a discount this is. (They're 37€ per pack, and there's 2 of packs!)

     

    It's not a good discount any way you slice it.  

     

    It is only a little bit of good will to lesson the sting for people who supported the mobile app.  

     

    The people getting the best value are the people who are new, just buying in now.  They get the game, with less bugs, with more stuff, complete in a package for the same amount people who paid on day one on mobile are.  This is especially considering that most of the content (alt packs, treasure cards, gold, runes, charms pack, legendary items, etc are all fluff.   It's only valuable to those who really want it. 

     

    The only actual decent value portion of the ambassador program is the Goblin stuff - which - we'll see how much they price that to really determine it's worth. 

  3. So far I've voted with my wallet so I'm right there with you. I own 781 games on steam (I just checked) and many more on GOG and other platforms, and Pathfinder Adventures is a game that I both want to be playing (and streaming) right now, but I must resist because I have not been happy with their decisions for a lot of things for a long while.   I say this to show how much other "options" i have personally, and how much in perspective I wanted to be happy with this game. 

     

    I still maintain they handled this wrong.   They could have given everyone who paid $25 or more an 80% off coupon, or offered the game at $3.95 or something reasonable and made everything else DLC.   There were lot's of solutions, and there really isn't any excuse other than a business one of double dipping.   They should have waited to have more content for the Steam version for old players to be excited and spend money on - the goblin's DLC for instance is not enough IMO.  If there are issues behind the scenes as to why content is so slow... there is not enough transparency to the users as to why.   And in fact - even though the math probably works out to be the same, if they gave me the game heavily discounted, without the ambassador program, I would have just bought the DLC immediately, no questions asked.  But on principle they now are getting nothing from me unless i change my mind.

     

    For me, it sucks.  I specifically only ever wanted a Steam version.  I never wanted a mobile version.  I was only influenced  to support the mobile version by the implication that the Steam version would both come sooner than it did, and the fact, it would be F2P like the mobile version. 

     

    These arguments (I've seen here and elsewhere) of "Remember When???" are moot.  The gaming industry on a whole has matured.  You can't get away with the same stuff when better tools, better pricing models, better examples and competition exist.   I remember when you couldn't even download video games, but that doesn't mean in 2017 you could offer a game without a digital download option and still want to be successful, so bringing that up as an example is silly at best.  

     

    Plus, if you want to play the "remember when" game, there are tons of posts and complaints about 20 other things in the past month or year, including 100's of bugs and other design issues that have been mishandled for "reasons".  Do we forget the many times content were delayed? Do we forget that quests was removed despite positive feedback (and being implemented poorly).  Or the changes they made from the base game, or... you get the idea.   Heck, look at how this Ambassador thing is being handled - how can something as simple as that be so delayed and mishandled to result in 200 questions a day about it?  It's par for the course for this game and the devs. 

     

    All I know is this:  The Devs had a lot of great opportunities to make a great thing, and it was marred with a lot of bad and/or short-sighted decision making which ultimately I think will hurt their bottom line - their business bottom line.   

     

    The one thing that I will say to counter my own words is this: 

     

    The people who created the game are human. I tell myself this every time I complain on here.  I'm pretty confident that many of the issues that people have with the game were not 100% born from an evil place. Despite how illogical and stupid some of these design decisions seem to be... I don't think they were done with any ill intent.   The best thing you can do for them is keep a level head and keep providing the feedback they need to make the game a better product.   People who blindly defend the devs without proper criticism actively make the product worse.   You can criticize and still be positive.  

    • Like 5
  4.  

     

    New system is NOT better... not even close. And stealing our cards is certainly not a way to go forward.

     

    I respectfully disagree and think that the new Salvage system is better.   I do however think their choice of how many cards per type was wrong and where the problem lies.    

     

    The cap for 1 Legendary is a wrong choice.  You should have the same probability of finding one just like any other card.  

     

    The fact it's legendary was from it's probability of dropping from a Treasure Chest, but it shouldn't be it's probability from dropping inside the Campaign... since the Campaign is still a fixed number of scenarios.  That's the whole point of Pathfinder the card game.  The Adventure Decks already give you your probability of finding things - stronger stuff shows up later in the game...  so the probability to realistically find things late in the game unless you farm for them is lower.  IE - finding something you want in AD6 should be harder than AD1, which is how the original game is designed.  (I personally never farm - because I play as it was intended to be played). 

     

    However, if even a single person spent real world money or time to farm 20x of a single card... (which again, is ridiculous to me personally), then yes - you probably have a case to be angry, but that still doesn't mean that the new system isn't better.   The new system at least is in line with how the rest of the game works.  

     

    A player should never have been able to mess with the probabilities of a card showing up in a box at all via the treasure system. 

     

     

    2) A great deal of uncommon cards are junk, and 4 copies is a pretty damn big cap for a card that's junk. Without a way to change the caps yourself or salvage individual cards, your game will become significantly diluted by uncommon cards.

     

    IMO, the entire Treasure System already dilutes the game, which was always my issue with the Treasure System to begin with.  It was never needed from a gameplay point of view.   New cards should always have been introduced either through Adventure Decks or Character Classes.  They could have introduced "Treasure Decks" with all these cards to purchase an toggle on/off when you start an adventure, which is closer to what this new system is like, but that is not a real thing in the physical game.   They could have created optional side scenarios for these treasure cards, or created unique loot cards - but their original intention was not from a gameplay perspective, but from a finanicial one - hence why we got them. 

     

    That said...I do think the new auto salvage system is better, but their values for how many cards to limit are where I think there is a problem, so I will say that I don't think salvage needs to come back.  The real problem is the arbitrary numbers they chose.  I don't think a player for instance should be able to Salvage ALL the treasure cards they don't want and keep only the useful overpowered cards so they have a higher probability to drop.  

     

    A player should be able to find multiple copies of any card however.  I forget how many copies of every other Adventure Deck 1-6 card their are, but I think at least a minimum of 2 of any card should be allowed and the Rarity shouldn't matter in it's ability to be found - only limited by it's Adventure Deck number.  A single character may need two of the same card to fully enjoy it, etc. 

     

    That said... it's all a moot point anyway since you can already create new characters, farm the same card by starting a new party, transfer characters, transfer cards, rinse, repeat, anyway... which is something that (IMO) never should have happened as well.  Every instance of "the box" should have been it's own without cards being able to be transferred, and they unlocked Pandora's box by allowing that work around to get any number of cards.  The new Stash just makes this worse.   Their excuse of "multiplayer" for that is also a silly one, you know, especially since a year later and that doesn't exist either.  

     

    The whole point of the game is to progress with the items you find and not to spec out exact builds. That's where the actual challenge lies.  They could have just implemented a sandbox mode for people who really wanted to build crazy decks.  

    • Like 1
  5. Definitely not - the new system of just capping the cards is better IMO since we'll never get anything like the original "box" system to manually dilute cards through play anyway, at least this new system it limits everything without any extra work.

     

    The only argument I can see is for min-maxers who might want to just salvage away completely useless cards and only keep a pool of overpowered cards, but at that point, why have the Treasure Chest Card System at all? 

    • Like 1
  6. Not really directly related, but i saw a few people posting how unfair and hard the game is, and how they feel it's the type of game you are supposed to spend resources (real and fake money) to use the charms just to beat an adventure and overcome RNG and how not fun that the game was designed that way, and instead, should be balanced without the need for these things.  People did chime in to explain how you don't need to use it, but it was funny. 

     

    The Stash just adds to that while making people who just want the pure experience have to jump through hoops (again) to deal with it.   

     

    I personally think these "features" not only are misguided, they actually really undermine the user's intellect and ability to deal with a challenge.  

    • Like 1
  7. The game was developed because the Obsidian wanted to test the mobile Gaming platform. 

     

     

    Because they are a business.  

     

     

     

    So the consept of making a mobile game was more important than the game itself. The game just happened to be Pathfinder.

     

    The concept of mobile games has existed for years.  

     

    None of this matters as a consumer.  They could have developed any game, but they chose to take an established IP, and thus, there is some responsibility that comes with that and it's fanbase.  Heck, I would argue that some large percentage of the people who payed attention to this game only did so because they are familiar with the IP and/or the board game.   

     

     

     

    Also you need to think about that people who do buy now on Steam do not have to buy the game twice to get it on 2 (or even 3) platforms.

     

    This is the whole crux of the argument.  New Steam customers don't get screwed.  That's great.  That should have been the business model from the beginning.    

     

    People who only play on IOS don't get screwed.   That's great, because they got to take advantage of a F2P system if they didn't deposit money.

     

    Only people who supported the app because it came out first, with the assumption that the F2P cross compatibility would be there get screwed., because there was no other way of knowing. 

     

    If it was clear this was the path they would take - we would have had a choice to wait and only pay once on Steam.  But it wasn't clear and they even shifted their strategy mid-development, and instead of doing the right thing and gifting free codes to people who spent money, or old customers, they did the wrong thing (in my opinion of course) and had everyone rebuy the game.  Steam 100% supports the concept of cross platform, free to play, etc. Steam supports download codes.  Steam supports discount codes. Plus they built a backend that syncs content. It could have been done - and probably easily.  

     

     All of this is their business decision, not the consumer's decision.  The only decision we get to make is with our wallet, and that's about it. 

     

    So it is better to see pathfinder as a prototype to mobile game (or mobile Gaming platform). The dev team instead was/has been very enthusiast to Pathfinder games with very ambitious plans and has been very much understaff to make those plans coming to reality. 

     

    When you take money, it's not a Prototype. They even asked for an amount that is way above average for mobile.    It's not my job to see it as a prototype once they take my money.  Otherwise the game should clearly say so. Besides, Board Game Apps themselves have been around for a while, and, in addition, Obsidian, as a company, has games under their belt.  

    They did not have a clear picture how to do it,

     

     

    They had the clearest picture ever.   They are only recreating a product that exists - which is a physical board game that has a subscription scheme built into it!  There wasn't anything to experiment with.

    • Make Adventure Paths.  Charge $$$ for it.
    • Make Advenure Decks.  Charge $$$ for it.
    • Make Characters class packs.   Charge $$$ for it.
    • Release the content in a timely matter.    Keep customers engaged.
    • Keep doing it until you run out of content.   At this point, that's easily $100+ worth of potential stuff for a customer to buy.
    • Create your own content from the above.  Charge $$$ for it.

    The only way this fails if people get sick of the game.  The Board Game sales for each Adventure Path drops off because of the general need to play with X amount of people and real time commitments.  The app should have better conversion because a solo player, playing digitally, can consume it faster, and it's cheaper, thus, safer to commit to.  

     

    Obsidian is a Business. Every decision matters, no matter how small the team. Every feature that was not needed for better or worse is time not spent making content, which would have helped their Free to Play vision come true.   But instead, we now have the current situation where people are expected to pay almost double at a price that is beyond what most games in the same space would cost.  With DLC that is not even core to the game.    

    • Like 2
  8. @Yewstance - you definitely aren't alone.  

     

    I too so far have resisted supporting the Steam version.  My frustration mostly comes from seeing all this coming from day one.  There are just too many obvious decisions that could have gone differently that would have made the whole journey up until now better, including this Steam Launch. The "stash" and "pay to win" features just annoy me more as it ruins the spirit of what this is... I mean, sure, you could add a "pay 50 gold to get a second free turn in Chess" but that really only serves to undermine the spirit of that game.  I can't wait for "Pay 1000 gold to skip a scenario" option that will one day come.  Sure it's optional - don't use it - but that doesn't take away from what makes it bad. 

     

    Overall, If the game was pay to play from the beginning, 90% of the confusion + emotion + frustration would have been removed.  

     

    Plus, the reason why it does burn more is because the game was FREE to PLAY (their decision, not ours) - so people who paid were doing so to show support the game/company in a lot of aspects.  We didn't have to, but we did, because we wanted to show support.  THEIR hope was greedy (in my opinion), that people would overpay with treasure chests, and or because of impatience, and it didn't turn out that way.  So now, it double stings when you decide to crap on that support when there were other options available to lesson the financial load - especially since this game has enough content to support $100+ per user if they supported it right.   

     

    Not everyone will agree - but that is my viewpoint.  

     

    Another issue is they took ONE YEAR to release it on Steam.  

    • If I had the choice of Steam vs IOS/ANDROID from day one... I would have only started on Steam and never cared about the mobile version.  
    • If I had known this was the way it would have turned out, I would never have started on IOS, and just waited for the PC version

    But lack of foresight, planning, speed on the devs part, I'm now out potentially double the money.   As a day one person, it was clearly implied that it would be F2P on Steam... and that only changed when they didn't make enough money to support that model.  So sure, I could just continue to play on IOS and skip the steam version, but for me personally, I never wanted the IOS platform to begin with.  It's similar to the GOG situation.   How bad could the planning be that these things were not considered so far out or clearly explained to people when taking people's money? who knows, but we know for sure lots of Rocky things have happened between release schedules and bugs, so I guess it's not that surprising anymore. 

     

    In addition when you buy this game, you aren't just buying a game - you are essentially buying DLC packs.  Sure the game "as a whole" is a game, but it was never packaged that way in it's physical form.   The actual "base" game is just Adventure Deck 1 and the 3 scenarios before 1.  There is no reason why they couldn't have priced the Steam Version at like $4.99, and all 5 Adventure Decks as DLC adding up to $24.95. This way, people who already owned the content could buy back in at a much more reasonable rate... but they gambled on everyone being super forgiving and paying 100% a second time. 

     

    Then keep in mind, all of the "DLC" stuff that is in existence (dice, treasure cards, etc) were all designed SOLELY to take your money, not to enhance the actual playing experience.  They were designed to keep your quarters flowing so to speak... 

     

    Solutions?  They also easily could have generated Steam codes for people who purchased $24.95 for 50% off, etc.  

     

    The ambassador program is "ok" but it's them double dipping off the faithful playerbase.   But it's better than nothing, and they do get props for that.  And since they've said that in the future, all future content will be unlocked across all platforms - things will one day make sense again.  

     

    I still have until the 22nd to decide if I want to completely not buy the game in protest.  Which sucks because I love throwing my money at things I love, but I still feel that a bulk of things have been handled poorly over the past year.   That said... I also realize people are human, team size is small, etc, so I get torn with how far I want to protest.   I don't love how they handle my money, but I also want to see them succeed.   They are glimmers of hope between it all and I'd love to just be like everyone else and go - "sure!".   This is all ironically happening while my board game group is all finishing up The Mummy's Mask (Adventure Path 4) and none of us really want to support the Steam version at this time. 

     

    Maybe I'll roll a d12 and check and see how strong my willpower is on the 22nd.   Maybe in the spirit of things I'll let luck decide. 

    • Like 1
  9. IWhat does this mean for future pricing? My guess is that most major content going forward (like new ADs) will only be available for real money. You can purchase in either version and it will unlock in the other. 

     

    If it works like this - great.  It would be nice if they would explicitly confirm this without any doubt, hence the question.  There is evidence and contradiction both ways depending on how you take words as written and their approach to the ambassador pack.   If they confirm this, then all is slightly better in the Pathfinder World. 

  10. I would really love to know that too.  All we can do is speculate intentions, but I can't help but think that from here on out, it would be best for the app if all new content (mobile or PC) will, and should, require real money transactions.

     

    I've been saying this since day 1, as the other F2P model vs the pace of content should never and could never have coexisted.  The F2P model only works when you can get new content every month few months to outpace the free players even, which the devs never could push out that content for better or worst.

     

    That said... between conversations on reddit, here, and elsewhere, I feel like I am taking crazy pills in that I am the only person interpreting the above statements to mean that: 

    1. All future content will money transactions (sure - that's fine with me)
    2. Future paid content - IE - the DLC It's not transferable, based off the first statement of This means folks that purchased content on the mobile version of the game will need to repurchase the content on Steam or GOG.

    That statement was the bolded one, and the followup to it didn't help clarify at all since it only focused on the F2P stuff. 

     

    My main assumption for this is based on how they are offering the ambassadors pack.  They are giving Steam Keys for the additional content, vs giving the mobile accounts the content, or just giving it directly through the PLAYFAB account.  If everything was to really link up... why couldn't they just flag our content via the PLAYFAB or OBSIDIAN ACCOUNT that exists on mobile and have it sync up with Steam when we buy it?.  

     

    Heck - even if I never download the steam version... I should still get the Ambassador stuff if I spent $25 on mobile.   

     

    Something there doesn't add up unless future content is not transferable... or... they are adding it in the future.  At this point I have no idea what Playfab can do and all expectations are lost because I've seen other companies allow you to access things across steam / mobile without issue.  There easily could have been a buy in for Adventure Path 1 on Steam for 3.99, a Full version for $25, and let people sync their accounts however they wanted.  They did mention business reasons, but that's not very forthcoming when it basically means - hey, we need your money, again, to keep this going.  

     

    Meanwhile, we all would have opened our wallets x 5 for just some real content vs this F2P stuff. 

     

    That said... I don't think we need to wait and speculate... as this thread is specifically for Q/A.  

     

    The easiest way to test this in 24 hours would be to have someone purchase on Stream, and then link it to a fresh mobile account to see if everything transfers over, but, the wording implies that only the non-core content transfers over.   I've seen multiple instances where people have tried to ask their own version of how it works, but it's not very clear.  I won't do that, but maybe someone who isn't purchased in yet can. 

     

     IE - if this was a rulebook for a board game, it needs another round of clarification, not clear enough!  :blink:

     

    Fingers crossed they see the potential of Pathfinder as a Platform - easily $100+ worth per customer of content if they add it all in and are consistent with it.   Sad that it's a $50 buy in (total) for those of us who already paid the $25+ on mobile, but I am more than happy to rebuy this game when new classes are released, new adventure packs, etc.  But not if it doesn't transfer to mobile...  

  11. Since I am somehow the one misinterpreting things based on the way people keep talking about these changes, i need more clarification: 

     

    Question:  If in the future, you offer a DLC pack - let's pretend it's a Character Class Pack (Example: Magus Class) for DLC.  Or we can pretend it's Adventure Path 2 Adventure Deck 1. Something along those lines that is actual CORE GAME content.  And I purchase it on Steam.  Will it unlock via IOS/Android? 

     

    Question: Same situation - but vice versa? 

     

    I want to fully understand, because this line has thrown me off

     

    The PC version of the game is not using a free-to-play model for revenue generation. There are both business and technical reasons for this. This means folks that purchased content on the mobile version of the game will need to repurchase the content on Steam or GOG.

     

    Seem to contradict this: 

     

     

    • "If I merge my PC/Android/iOS accounts, does that mean I will see all of my unlocked/purchased content on all of these platforms?"

    Yup. For example, if you had some special promo cards on your iOS account and you merged it with the PC, they would show up on the PC build of your game - even if we don't have that content for purchase on the PC. It works in reverse too. If you purchased the Obsidian Edition on Steam and linked your accounts you would unlock the treasure cards on your mobile versions.

     

     

     

    I don't know what future content you guys will offer, but I just want to make sure that once I get past this $25 buy-in fee on Steam, that all platforms are treated equal and that it will be a Pathfinder Platform I am buying into, and not split based on where you buy it.  

     

    Because i will come back one day if you release more actual content despite that I feel the only people who are paying double tax (despite your ambassador program) are those of us who were faithful and actually paid for your content.  

     

    Right now there is no situation where someone could have unlocked characters or adventure decks from mobile to steam - so I want to know how the future of that part works.  

    • Like 1
  12. Does this expire?  

     

    I don't think I want to be a day one supporter of the Steam version despite being a day 1 supporter of the mobile app + board game susbscriber.  

     

    I still feel too burned over the last year by many of the decisions made.  

     

    However, I need to understand if by waiting... will I get burned even more despite fitting into the "Ambassador" Description? 

     

    I have no issue waiting until more content is added to the game or the eventual humble sale or both.  I've already invested enough of my money into the economy at this point for the luxury of playing it on the platform I originally wanted to START my adventures on (steam - I never wanted mobile) and a 10% discount doesn't cut it for me personally.

     

    All the best.  

    • Like 1
  13. Well.  I can't say I didn't expect disappointment, but there is is.  A card stash - really?  Now they are creating a mechanism to circumvent the actual game's rules and to make an already easy game easier?  Is this something that was actually requested?

     

    All I wanted out of the app was the ability to play the board games 1:1 digitally solo.

     

    Unique adventures are great... , which, as I've voiced many times before, Adventures and Characters is ALL this app ever needed for an additional revenue stream.   This game has 3 things:

    • A Ruleset
    • Adventures and Stories
    • Characters 

    That is what distills the pen and paper to a board game... but for whatever reason, Obsidian keeps taking queues from mobile/video games such as F2P and Diablo as inspiration to change something that doesn't need changing. 

     

    Steam integration is a move in the right direction.  Will be glad when that happens. I'm glad they decided to make the account sync - but I don't think they announced if it will cost anything to get onto the platform or will be truly f2p to start/sync.  I think the pricing model will garner lots of negative feedback from Steam though.  The prices are both incredibly high, and in addition, there is a f2p mechanism of lootboxes which is the worst of both worlds for users. 

     

    +1 for the soundtrack.  One thing they've done right from the beginning is the sound/art design of everything.

     

    Other than that, I feel it's two steps forward, one step back, as always.  

  14. It's all certainly up for debate.  

     

    You can do the same thing with Augury and some items, but Augury is much better as 1) It might get rid of other monsters you can place on the bottom 2) It places the villain on top 3) It doesn't cost tempo and can speed things up. 

     

     

    You certainly can do the same thing with Augury, which is why it's one of the best cards in the game.  However, any character can take that card and it doesn't define a character at all.  Plus, in addition, it's: 

    • A card that you don't consistently have in your hand
    • A card that takes up a card slot
    • Is like scouting that requires taking an action to do (play a card)

    You can just easily waste an Augury by revealing cards of no interest/value... 

     

    But evasion you can never waste!  The reason why Evasion is stronger than people think it is - is that it's reactionary.  You only use it when you need to use it.  Otherwise, it costs nothing at all times.  If you decide to use Evasion - it's only because it was the lesser of two evils or there was a benefit to gain from it.  So the argument of you "wasting" an explore is not as strong as you think, because generally, you only use it when you would be forced to waste an explore anyway - such as encountering something you couldn't defeat.  

     

    NOT exploring is also wasting an explore as far as turns go, and many characters are forced into that situation because of the cards in their hand.  For every turn a character is forced not to explore, Merisiel often CAN still explore, regardless, because she can evade.  Evasion in fact increases tempo, because it means you can use your blessings/allies without any reserve, heal them back into your deck, cycle, and use them again.  It's why she is a location killer.  

     

    All the other benefits of evasion need to be considered too.  When stuff is summoned or bad barriers arise, other characters have to use cards to deal with them, ultimately using blessings/spells or worst case, resetting a hand when things go sour.   This leads to less explores for those characters while Mersiel is not effected at all from these, which also leads to more tempo for the party. 

     

    Despite that...  more often than not... when you choose to use evasion, it nets you something.  In the extreme villain example, it can net you many many turns and preparation.  In less extreme examples, it may net you a few explores over the game through cycling cards fast, or if you get unlucky, lose you an explore or two.. but that is more of a side effect of pushing your luck in any game.  

     

    Typically, other characters will have to stop their turn, even if they can explore again, if they aren't prepared for the next explore.  Happens a lot with spellcasters specifically.  You can only explore as many times as you have spells to kill banes.  Merisiel doesn't suffer from this.  Neither does Seelah. 

     

    Example:  There are only 8 blessing left in the Blessings deck, time is running out!  Merisiel is at a location where there are 2 boons, 1 monster, 1 henchmen/villian.  She has only a blessing and an ally left in hand - no weapons.  

     

    Most characters would end their turn - because the potential to 50/50 the monster/henchmen and lose their other explore card is too high.  Merisiel has the opportunity of blind checking this location, if she hits a boon, she just used her time efficiently, netting an explore that another character typically couldn't do, and she will eventually heal that ally/blessing back into her deck for more explores over the turn.

     

    if she hits the monster, she can recharge the other card and have a decent shot at defeating it since her strength is a d8 + d6 + X.  If it's a henchman or villian, the extra explore was worth it because now she can prepare for it the next turn (especially if she puts it on top). 

     

    All of that flexibility without the cost of anything - because it's reactionary. 

     

    I’m definitely not saying Merisiel is bad, and evasion has it’s uses, but it definitely isn’t god tier in my opinion.

     

     

    I actually argue a lot that no one is god tier compared to future characters like Alahazra the Oracle who completely can break the game. :bow:  

     

    But, whatever the top tier is for Rise, which people are calling god tier, my vote still goes only for Seelah and Merisiel in this set as rising above all the other characters for all character counts in terms of consistency, utility, and potential.   

     

    On a side note, evasion's value also goes up when you play the physical board game in comparison to the digital game, because for the most part, in the physical board game, people don't "farm" endlessly for better gear to fully optimize your stuff (at least in my experiences) because of set-up and tear-down time... so Evading boons you want is also really strong in this regard - you tend to play until you win and move on. There are lot's of other weird ways to break this game with most of the characters when you can choose and farm any cards you want. 

  15.  

    It's also why in future content, they've added more situations where things can't be evaded, because of how strong evasion is in Rise of the Runelords.

    And then they went and created a character like Adowyn who is arguably even more OP, because thanks to her cohort she has a scout ahead power like Seelah/Harsk, only on steroids because she's neither limited on how often nor at what point during her turn she can use it. Basically, she will know what's next in the location deck any time and as often as she wants to, as long as she has her wolf companion (who is trivially easy to keep around due to her powers) and a card to recharge. And scouting it is even more powerful than evasion because it works even on banes that can't be evaded.

     

    My guess is that this was at least part of the reason they introduced the "trigger" keyword in the Mummy's Mask set (stuff happening even when you only examine a card without actually encountering it)...

     

     

    I played as Adowyn on my first playthrough of Wrath - and she was indeed fun and powerful, but most of the characters in that set are due to the difficulty spike.  

     

    To add to her OPness, her scouting also acts like a heal (since you recharge your cards), and there are lots of mounts that let you move locations as well.  And you can use your scouting for other players at your location due to that timing you pointed out. (And she potentially has the ability to evade summoned things, or let others evade as well!).  Plus her combat special abilities can be used with any Cohort, and some scenarios give your group 5.  Guess who gets all the useless ones!?

     

    I still think Wrath is the best set just because your characters get a lot of deeper challenges, deeper interactions, and flexiblity with most characters with the Mystic Paths.  However, Adowyn definitely helped shape that opinion a bit on a first playthrough!  

    • Like 2
  16. Another way of thinking:  

     

    All characters can fight things decently well in Pathfinder. When ALL characters can do a thing well, it doesn't really matter anymore who is the best at that thing.

    Instead the weight of value falls to what makes the character unique from the other characters, including, how efficient their uniqueness works in the scope of action conservation, because the only real enemy in Pathfinder is the Blessing Deck.   

     

    Seelah is all about efficiency.  

    • Free examines every turn BEFORE moving which means she can easily make choices for her free explore each turn, such as changing locations should she see something she can't deal with, or if she discovers a villian/henchmen/barrier/etc (Harsk can't do this since his happens at the end of turn, only Merisiel has the same flexibility because of her evasion)
    • The equivalent of a free explore when she encounters a boon, because she can just take that card and make it go to the bottom of a location deck (No one in RoTR can do this)
    • She punches with no weapon for a d8 + 2 + (d6) at Adventure Path B .  
    • 40%-58% free ability to add 1d6 + X to ANY check from their deck (not hand!) (No one in RoTR can do this from their deck, only a few can do this with cards in hand). This effectively means that even though her hand size is only 4, her available pool of cards is effectively 4 + X  where X is how many explores she gets on any turn.  Even in an "unlucky" hand draw of 4 blessings, she effectively has access to 9 cards, and keep in mind, she punches pretty hard...
    • She has high charisma, which means she can often explore Ally-rich locations, and turn them into more explores on the same turn
    • All her power feat points synergize strongly with these abilities. 
    • She benefits from being a fighter and a spell caster, which means she has a ton of flexibility with utility, like carrying a cure or types of weapons she can choose to use (or her bare hands)
    • Gets a lot of blessings for many explores, second only to Sajan

    Her only downside is that Armor in RoTR is pretty lackluster, or else she'd be even stronger.  Even then, her armor still lets her do what she does best, which is Explore, Explore, Explore with very little risk, since she can often just soak any damage and try again after the first easy and free explore!

     

    Her other downside is that when you get unlucky deck draws when boosting your checks, it can be a setback, and this is why most people rule her out when they first use her, because it's most noticable at Adventure Path B... but... it's really really really easy to reset her back to form with healing. 

     

    We are not actually arguing. My default objective is to heavily focus on increasing Seelah's combat ability. Max her weapon slots, all skill points to strength, and then go after blessings and spells.

     

    You can very much do the focus on strength part, but no need for maxing weapons... she literally just punches things without a weapon for:

    • D8 + D6 + 2 at Adventure Path B
    • D8 + 4 + 2 + (1d6 + 3) + (((1d8 + magic)))(if undead) at Adventure Path 6

    Until at least you draw a weapon, which then, she murders things like everyone else.  And when it's not enough... she just tanks the damage with her armor, laughs, and ultimately moves on with her life to do it again.  And if the armor doesn't work, her small hand size let's her recover just as easily from mistakes.

    • Like 1
  17. As other's have said, immediately moving to another location and hunting down henchmen + villain's is your only play if it's early and you don't have any method of adding magic to a check.  You can still win the check without defeating that monster to cause the location to shuffle - then move and hope that later you can get the villain into this location.  

     

    Seelah is terrible solo.

     

    +1 to the bafflement of this as well.  I don't even have a comment for this lol.  Unless by terrible, you meant not terrible.

    • Like 1
  18. I don't see the "God" case for Merisiel. She's a slow explorer, and her combat prowess is highly dependent on being alone - which is hard to manage in large groups or towards the end of the scenario, when most locations are closed. Her evade is pretty great though, particularly when talented so you can chose to leave the card on top. But that's about it.

     

     

     

    The reason why Merisiel is god tier is because of her Evasion.  IMO, the only two god characters are Seelah and Merisiel.  They are the only two with abilities that are just consistently strong or have a high ceiling for situational investment.  

     

    I've posted this before but evasion is really strong in Pathfinder.  Arguably the strongest utility action you can do. Rivaled only by scouting or free explore mechanisms, or a few fringe case of future characters that are just nutty. 

     

    Being able to reliably set up situations with zero downside is strong.   Here is a list of why she is god tier:

     

    • If Merisiel finds the Villian early, it almost guarantees you victory and potentially can save you many many blessings/explores for the entire party since you'll know exactly where they are.  This situation alone has huge payoffs, and happens frequently due to how locations work as a 1/8 or less chance.

    • She completely nullifies "summon X before" locations and cards.

    • She plows through barriers like they were her living room front door with her disable, stealth, and general dexterity stats

    • She can let the party prepare for good boons you really want if she discovers them
    • Alternatively, she lets the party prepare for the nasty banes that you don't have an answer to right away  
    • She avoids things that would make her lose important cards which gives her flexibility and preparation  
    • She can be built very flexible as well (she can take a cure if you want, she can load up on blessings, and recharge them)
    • All the while being able to be alone (and getting a bonus for being alone) and one of the best combat characters because she requires so little to be able to fight 

    Last but not least, she can do all of this without specific cards! Evasion is free, and her solo ability is a recharge (which also keeps her alive longer!).  This means that even the worst item can do something on her turn, which means she can always for the most part, facecheck into a location. 

     

    Here is the very loose math on why Evasion is strong.  Each location has 10 cards.  On average, you'll find a henchmen or villain in 5 explores.   If there are 7 locations, and she  finds the villian first... you literally just saved, on average, 5 explores per location you don't need to permanently close.   That means if you as a group zerg down two locations, leaving 4 locations untouched, and the 1 location that has the villian where they are... and just get people who can temp close the other 4 - that's a net savings of about 20 explores, which is about, on average, 10 turns assuming 2 explores a turn. 

     

    Obviously, that's a best case scenario... and some scenarios this won't happen at all, She won't  always find the villian first, but because the net savings potential is so high - she is put into a god tier.  Even if she finds the villian after exploring 2 full locations is still a net savings.  No other characters can do this as consistently, but the basic idea of each location that you can leave unturned because you've located the villian (sometimes from scouting) saves avg 5 encounters an untouched location.   The reason why scouting is sometimes worse is because evasion is reactionary, and for Scouting for the most part is not consistant.  Sure, Harsk can look at the first card at the end of his turn, which helps him prepare, he can't freeze a villian unless she is the top card, where as Merisiel ges her ability for EVERY card she encounters.  

     

    Bacause of this, In every set after this one, evasion comes at a price.  All future characters that come either can only evade in certain situations, and/or have to pay something to do it.  That means vanilla Merisiel is even more OP because of this.  It's also why in future content, they've added more situations where things can't be evaded, because of how strong evasion is in Rise of the Runelords.

     

    The only downside with her is if you use evade needlessly, because it does net you a loss of explore... but in most cases... the gain in action conversation offsets this greatly.  

    • Like 7
  19. Hey there

     

    From the comments of the following Blog entry: http://forums.obsidian.net/blog/8/entry-199-pathfinder-adventures-whats-next/

     

    Is the PC release of Pathfinder Adventures the next big ticket piece of functionality after AD6?

    -F:  Yes.

     

    Is PC going to be before cross platform?  

     

    I started my digital Pathfinder life on iOS and regret it.  I've paid for all of the content, but really would prefer playing on Android or PC.  Please tell me that at the very least, if PC is the next big ticket... that we'll be able to transfer our content soon too. 

  20. Thanks, I never saw it because it's pinned. I would never look there, I only look at the newest threads that show up, like the most recent blog posts thread of upcoming cards.

     

    I guess I'll have to keep an eye out on both places now.   Regardless, I hope that they do a better job at highlighting promo stuff, because impossible to get stuff once it's gone is no fun once you've missed it.  

     

    I'll suppose I'll support it in hopes that one day, my content is transferable, since I made the mistake of starting on IOS.  

    • Like 1
  21. Can someone detail exactly what is available / when the offer expires?

     

    Having not loaded up the game myself (still waiting for the ability to transfer accounts to either Android / Steam) - are these things you can't ever get elsewhere, like Treasure Chests? 

     

    Would be nice if these things were advertised elsewhere and clearly so I don't end up missing out on content while waiting for a bug-free/full-content experience... 

     

    I also think it's really a bad idea to offer money only timed exclusives without any real promise/commitment that our content will transfer over to other platforms... because I will be mad if i buy this to support to app only to find it won't work on Steam when the day finally comes.  

     

    Thanks for any reply

  22. I've posted this before, but I still think that this would fix a lot of the issues with how leveling works in quest mode: 

    • XP Level Rewards should be Card Feats, Power Feats, Skill Feats, and maybe Loot Cards (only) - Basically unique things not found in locations

     

    The basic idea of making levels be super meaningful, and let people grow characters through finding loot, like the game generally intends you to do anyway. 

     

    Full details on my thoughts on it here - link

×
×
  • Create New...