TheMetaphysician
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Posts posted by TheMetaphysician
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I feel like I'm learning a lot about game design from this conversation.
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The thing is the game is already balanced around action speed affecting...action speed. Making this also true in turn based mode isn't going to suddenly make it any more or less overpowered than it is in the real time mode.
The same tradeoffs that apply in real time mode would still apply in turn based mode - armor vs speed, might vs dex, fast weapons doing less damage per action and dual wield having an accuracy and damage penalty (which, by the way, needs to be bumped in Turn based mode anyway since single weapon is hilariously bad in a both-weapons-attack-in-one-action and one-action-per-round world).
For argument's sake, we can't forget that there needs to be balancing towards the fact that players can't react to things like the enemy switching targets or trying to sneak over to your backline. If they manage to slip through your plan and do something you don't want them to do, you have to just sit there and take it. Characters with high initiative acting more often than other characters would be more dangerous because of that alone, so it can't be a perfect 1:1 of action speed to initiative.
This is a perfect example of how action speed's power gets magnified when you switch from a continuous system to a discreet unit-turn style system. Notice how much easier it is to land spell combo's, area spells and cc? With an ultra low initiative character you not only get more actions, but you can use spells, dmg and cc to deny the enemy their turns and magnify your advantage. You can kill or cc them before they have a chance to do anything to you, before they even defensively buff themselves. Turn-based systems always have the issue that acting first or acting more has a huge power-magnifying effect. Currently going first has its effect mitigated by the fact that encounters have a lot of turns and there are large advantages to ignoring initiative, such as armor, modals, etc.
If we go to lower-initiative = more turns, dexterity and action speed will be even MORE dominant than in RTWP. The rounds mode already seems fairly well balanced except for a few areas where the trade-offs between initiative, damage and defense don't really work anymore, such as light weapons, heavy armor and weapon modals. Some weapons or armor that increased action speed before are now less powerful, that's fine, as there are many more weapons and armor that have become far more useful in this mode with rounds.
That's a fascinating argument.
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Did you guys notice that the Rogue's Escape is a free action? There has to be a way to use that. Teleporting all the way across the field, attacking, then teleporting back. You'll just run out of Guile quickly.
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There's a simpler way to do this than messing around with action points and stuff, using the current mechanics:
Characters with 0 init are the active character. They do an action - the init cost of that action is how much init is where they fall on the init tracker, just as it does now. Now the game reduces everyone's init evenly until any character hits 0 - they do an action....repeat from above. The only difference to the current implementation is there's no discrete round count, letting characters that only do "fast" actions act more often compared to characters that use "slow" actions.
This does have a problem of course, I admit - and that's buff/debuff duration tracking. If you base it on the originating characters "turns" you penalize fast characters. If you base it on the recipient characters "turns" you again penalize fast characters if it's a friendly or slow characters if it's an enemy. I'm sure there's a good solution though, and I'm sure the devs or someone else could come up with one.
You'd probably have to give each buff/debuff (including damage/healing over time effects) its own initiative count -- treat it as a character, almost. That would greatly expand the number of things in the turn log, but that's the only way to mimic the real-time behavior.
Maybe they could just do that without putting them in the turn order UI.
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(making sure allies are buffed appropriately when needed; "target is race: kith" is necessary to prevent uselessly buffing summons)
The "Is race: kith" trick is awesome! I hadn't thought of that! The one annoying thing about my script for my herald is that he wastes heals and liberating exhortations on summons, which I do not want. Now I can fix that!
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So I'm getting weird results with stunning surge with an aoe mortar. Not only am I getting the mortification refund on a crit on anyone, but it's also giving me back 2 wounds when it does. Is it supposed to do that? Nothing in the description seems to say so. I did originally have xoti as a priest/monk and respeced via the console which I know can sometimes cause odd effects.
Also I noticed that my Bleakwalker's Flames of Devotion still applies sickened to everyone in an aoe both with whispers or with mortars. So not all afflictions are affected just most of them.
Are you sure that you were getting mortification refunds when the crit didn't happen on the primary target -- when it just happened on someone in the AoE?
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The "more AI" mod has a lot of the things being requested -- it has lists of effects that you can select (say, "Arcane Veil is active"). I can't imagine playing without that mod now.
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That's a bummer, since I really like those characters' participation in ship boarding fights. I suppose this is related to the fact that you can't program AI routines for your characters in turn-based. I didn't think I'd miss that, but in this particular case it matters.
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I think I'm sympathetic to the criticism that the devaluing of action speed makes light weapons and light armor (and builds based on those) so unattractive as to almost exclude them.
I'm just not seeing any easy way for the devs to alter TB mode to change this, without all sorts of unexpected consequences, that would require a more drastic overhaul. (Which I assume they just aren't set up to do or interested in doing, given that they are close to a full release on console).
Getting rid of rounds and just going in initiative order would require a few other changes. First, they'd have to change all the durations of everything, from turns to initiative ticks. Second, they'd have to adjust "over time" effects to fire at specific intervals rather than on the character's turn. That's sort of the way spell casts resolve now, so they can do it, but it will massively clutter up the initiative order with all the firings of "over time" effects. Third, they'd have to change dual-wielding from automatic full attacks to alternating attacks, and as mostundesired pointed out, that takes away your agency (you have to attack with your offhand then next time you attack).
Perhaps the devaluation of light armor/light weapons is serious enough that these costs are worth it. I don't know. I do think changing to an AP system is a more radical overhaul than they are willing to do -- they would lose the neat conversion from the base RTwP system that they have now.
Maybe the devs will come up with a solution! They are the experts on this, after all.
I do think this thread has done a good job of presenting the issues to them in such a way that it might help them think through it.-
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I have currently hidden the file on the Nexus because of several bugs and very mysterious things happening with the files.
Can you elaborate a bit? I just put it in my override folder, wondering whether I should take it out.
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Hahaha, my Watcher is a benevolent Shieldbearer Paladin, so I'll bet you are right that the disposition won't match up.
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Can I install this mod in the middle of a playthrough if I haven't yet recruited the companion I want it to affect? (I'm hoping to use it for Vatnir, and haven't gotten him yet.)
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I think I'm going to install the mod that makes his rogue subclass a Trickster, and make him a priest/trickster. I like the idea of the summoned battle-axes, bleeding modal, and minor avatar.
Any suggestions about what would synergize with that idea?
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I will say that even with the penalty dual-wielding feels more powerful than the other options.
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I consider the XP reduction mod a must-have, because I'm pretty completionist (I want to do everything in the game because I like the game!) and you'll be overleveled quickly.
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Hey guys,
I need ideas for a good Vatnir build. I want to take him through BoW (first time through), but I need something that can hold its own on Hardcore Deadly Deadfire PotD. I have no idea how to build or use a priest; always hated Xoti mechanically as a priest.
I could use either damage or a tank in my party. Appreciate any ideas!
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I may have overreacted about my Xoti build being busted. I put the Fire in the Hole mortar in her main hand and a non-mortar blunderbuss (Kitchen Stove with Wild Barrage) in the off-hand, and she actually gets the refund from Stunning Surge more often. And both weapons bounce, so she is still stunning multiple enemies for a while.
It still hurts, but it hurts the rogue builds the most, I think.
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There is a thread on turn-based strategies in the Strategy subform: here. It is not intended to be a feedback thread but a strategy thread. There may be stuff in there that the devs may find valuable as feedback, though.
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Interesting. I interpreted the base chanter's "1 round active, 1 round linger" to indicate that the base (non-troubadour) chanter can always have 2 songs up all the time -- the one you are currently chanting, and the lingering one from the previous round. Am I wrong about that?
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It just seems like the path of least resistance to get rid of rounds.
Off the top of my head, you'd want to account for dual wield being both full attacks and higher initiative, but that could be as easily fixed as modifying damage per hit to be lower when dual wielding.
If they wanted to go this way, they'd have to remove automatic full-attacks when dual-wielding. They'd have to go back to alternating attacks, with individual initiative (recovery) times for each. That would mimic the base game. Otherwise dual-wielding would be comically overpowered.
I'm open to this suggestion (getting rid of rounds). But they'd have to change "durations" of all abilities completely -- instead of counting in rounds, they'd have to count in initiative value (which would basically amount to units of time).
A big part of me likes the idea that action speed is less valuable. I share the annoyance of another poster that this is the king stat in the base game.
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I think maybe the biggest stinker isn't the AOE stun but the refund-on-crit in an AOE. They already nerfed the refund-on-crit (as they should have) to keep you from actually gaining more Mortification than you started with; this further nerf seems unwarranted.
Two questions:
- How does Flagellant's Path interact with mortars? I haven't used Flagellant's much. I had the impression from the tooltip that the ability doesn't do full attacks on everyone in the path, so I didn't think mortars would be relevant. But apparently I am wrong?
- Do the multi-hits of regular Blunderbusses all count toward the refund-on-crit of Stunning Surge? If so, regular blunderbusses might end up being better for Stunning Surges.
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You should really link this thread to the beta feedback for turn based mode subforum.
How do I do that?
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Man, I don't complain about nerfs or bugs -- mostly I like the nerfs, at least-- but this genuinely stinks. I finally found a build (mortar Monk) where I actually liked having Xoti in my party mechanically, which is good because I like her character, and now right as I hit level 16 and she's my leading damage-dealer, feeling like an essential member of the party, it gets killed.
Will mortars + that level 19 monk ability still be good, at least?
I hope you make a bug report, and I hope they call it a bug.
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Duration of effects seem to drop at the end of the character's turn and not necessarily on the same initiative the buff was cast, or at least this is how buffs like Frenzy work.
Yes, that seems to be the main reason to care about initiative. Better initiative = longer duration for effects, since it goes into effect earlier and drops at the same time.
AoE weapons (Whispers otEP, Citzal's, Mortars etc.) don't apply afflictions in an area anymore
in Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Characters Builds, Strategies & the Unity Engine (Spoiler Warning!)
Posted
A related question, for anyone who knows: if you have Avenging Storm active, how many procs of it does 1 regular blunderbuss attack deal? Do you get an individual Avenging Storm bolt for every pellet hit?