Darth Blivion
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Posts posted by Darth Blivion
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On outcast you had lightsaber locks far more frequently than on JKA. Also, you had the Jedi Master game mode. So if you ask me (not that many people do), outcast is better than JKA, and kotor is better than them both.
You could engage in saber locks pretty frequently. And JA had better variety and moves in combat, it was an improvement in this most important of areas. Level design in JA was also more sensible, and allowed for less tidious levels.
Outcast may have had the better narration but JA was the more enjoyable to play.
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JKA. It's a lot easier to get into, and overall just more fun. Mutiplayer also gives it more replay value.
The combat wasn't just button mashing, if you explored it you'd find that it rewarded you for being creative.
As for outcast it was IMO, a lot more tedious than JA. JA improved on the combat system bigtime, as well as level design.
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I think the fact that she a) claims she was in love with her former master, who was a woman, MIGHT be a clue
and the fact that b) if you're a woman she tells you she has feelings for you, if you talk about her enough.
Pretty sure that's a big hint. But who knows, she could just be a hippie
I don't see why Juhani has to be lesbian only because she a) Loved her female master b) had feelings for a female Revan. I think it's just a case of sisterly love and apprecation on the part of Juhani for a mother figure and a strong role model in Revan (being that she would be a fellow sister in the force).
It doesn't have to extend into feelings with sexual connotations. As it is she only loves them, she isn't in love with them.
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It's Sion you have to convince to release the force not Nihilus.
Nevertheless, one-on-one Revan has zero chance of walking away alive. There are other ways he could beat Nihilus but we are assuming this is Revan vs Nihilus in a one on one fight. This fight is like Spiderman (Revan) vs Braniac (Or any omega level baddie) no matter how popular spidey is, you can't help but recognize that in a one-on-one scenario Braniac would have the clear edge.
Nihilus 'hunger' has the potency to stip an entire planet of the force, what is a single conventional force sensitive going to do in a man to man fight? Nihilus wins if it's single combat any other scenario and Revan has a chance. If Revan was a wound in the force he might have been able to neutralize Nihilus' threat, but because he isn't.....
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Nihilus, as long as Nihilus has his 'hunger' Revan doesn't stand a chance in a one on one scenario. Also to clarify; Revan has never been a wound in the force, he merely lost his memory hence the reason he couldn't use the force consciously on Taris.
Because Revan is a conventional force sensitive, he'd have a great disadvantage against Nihilus in a one-on-one fight.
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There goes your credibility Deathscepter. You counter by saying the Sith teachings are more important than the Sith arts, when it should be obvious that you can't practice the Sith arts without first learning the Sith teachings. Nihilus learnt and used the Sith teachings, even though he didn't care enough for them to spare the Sith or their legacy.
I only write this because you countered my statement by sighting the importance of the teachings, but you forget Nihilus was taught and learnt the Sith arts already.
It doesn't matter how you think a Sith Lord should regard the Sith teachings, what matters is that a Sith character can be whatever an author believes him/her to be. So again, since when did they develope a criteria for creating Sith Lord characters?
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Whatever Blivion. The only reason why I'm repeating my self is because you seem to not understand what I'm getting at. You're the one who won't even respond to my quotes now. Why is that? You know I'm right, is that it? I challenged your arguments in my last post.
Besides, did I say that the Exile was a Sith Lord? I said that the Exile can be a Sith Lord. There's a difference there you know. Well, you can think whatever you like about Nihilus. I don't care now. I shouldn't have wasted my time with this bloody debate.
You should also stop accusing me of saying stuff I never said. I challenge you to quote me for ever saying that the Exile is a Sith Lord. I said that the Exile can be a Sith Lord. Fool.
Yeah! Play nice.
) It was your silly argument in the first place, you should know how to defend that argument beyond: "he was not a Sith Lord because he didn't care about Sith teachings" arguments. So what?! He was still a damned Sith Lord and he still used the Sith arts. -
Still arguing in circles, eh Architect? It's like you're reciting to us Kotor 2 info. We've played the game no need for reciting.
The point (with the Exile) is that he can be lightside or neutral as well as being DS, so saying he is a Sith Lord is not appropriate for me in this case. Nihilus however is Darth Nihilus and only Darth Nihilus. The Exile is not definitively identified as a Sith Lord, while Nihilus is.
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Ah, what the hell. I said I wouldn't post on this thread again, but I can't back away from a debate.
Blivion, you do know you're contradicting yourself right? Remember how you didn't put the Exile on your list because you said that:
So I ask, why didn't you put the Exile on your list for? Why is Nihilus on your list for when he's just like the Exile in this case? According to you, there is no set criteria that determines a Sith's character once they have attained that title, but even though the Exile can bear the title of 'Sith Lord' in KotOR II, you didn't put him/her on the list because you said the Exile can be a Sith Lord in name alone, not in mind and spirit.
Going by your logic, if Malak attained the title of 'Darth' but he became a merciful, compassionate, charitable person (without ever discarding his title) would he still be a Sith Lord? No, he shouldn't be, because by doing those things, he's going against the teachings of the Sith, which defines what a Sith is, thus he's no longer following the teachings of the Sith and cannot really be considered as a Sith anymore.
Because of his inhuman status, the title means stuff all in his eyes. To Nihilus, the entire galaxy is just a platter, waiting to be eaten by him. If the title means nothing to the individual, then technically they have discarded it.
Also, you still have not proven that (once a Sith has attained the power they sought after) they no longer have to care about/follow the Sith teachings to be a Sith. You haven't proven it and until you do, it's just a myth.
I didn't put the Exile on my list primarily because it isn't a given that he becomes Sith and even so, he did not get his title through the Sith but merely through his knowledge of the dark side and Sith arts. The Exile can be a Jedi just as much as he can be a Sith and even so Kreia mentions that he is not trully Sith in the DS ending. Nihilus on the other hand is Sith and only Sith. He identifies himself and is identified as a Sith Lord within the game.
Secondly if Malak or any Sith became charitable and compassionate it doesn't disqualify them from being Sith. What would disqualify them is if they turned away from the dark side. A Sith Lord is essentialy a dark side practicioner, if he no longer follows the dark side then he isn't a Sith. Compassion and charity have nothing to do with it. Sith are human and can love and care for other people.
Lastly, I nerver said that a Sith has to abandon the Sith teachings once he has attained the power he has sought after. I said there would be no need for a Sith Lord like Nihilus to follow the Sith teachings, becuase for him they would serve no purpose. The primary purpose of Sith teachings are to allow a Sith follower to unlock the might of the dark side of the force. For a guy like Nihilus who had unlocked the power to end life on a planetary level, the Sith teachings were no longer relevant.
It's not just a matter of abandoning the Sith teachings once you've reached a certain power level, it's a matter of whether they are relevant to what you plan to do. For Nihilus, there was nothing more to learn from the Sith, once he attained the power to draw force energy from all living things.
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So what you're saying in effect is that for you to classify character X as a Sith Lord, he must be a run-of-the-mill megalomaniac of sorts?
Again, there is no set criteria that determines a Sith character. Some seek galactic supremacy, some merely seek knowledge, some even believe they are heroes, others like Nihilus believe the galaxy is only good for one thing at that's destruction.
The point is: for Nihilus to be a unique Sith character, he has to have a distinctive charecteristic and as a result, the nature of his power is made different from other Sith. It comes down to artistic decisions not some general description of what a Sith is.
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Sith Lord is just title. And yes, there is set criteria that determines what is Sith Lord and what isn't.
It's too bad that criteria has nothing to do with an author creating a Sith Lord character within his LA licensed story <sacarsm>. Nihilus IS a Sith Lord, and there is no set criteria for determining a Sith Lord's character.
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At the end of the day their is no set criteria that determines what is or isn't a Sith Lord once the authors have already designated the title ('Sith Lord') to their characters. Nihilus became a Sith and died, a planet-eating Sith Lord.
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Also, Architect if you understood the depth of a Sith's dedication to acquire power, you wouldn't be scratching your head over Nihilus' actions. Nihilus became so inhuman that he no longer cared for the teachings of the group he affiliated himself with.
You have tried to argue that Nihilus is not a Sith Lord in Kotor 2, but you forget that nothing disqualifies him from the title 'Sith Lord', unless he denounces the title or turns from the dark side, 2 things Nihilus didn't do.
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Umm... None of you have challenged my points. First of all, Nihilus is what he is because of the force, his 'hunger' is a manifestation of the dark side of the force, so he is subject to the will of the force. And yes, the Sith doctrine stresses freedom from all things even the will of the force, but that itself is almost impossible to achieve. No Sith has ever escaped the will of the force.
The only person who ever had a chance from breaking away from the will of the force had to loose his connection to it. My point? The Sith are subject to the force, as long as they depend on it, as long as they are connected to it, they are subject to its will - it is the general concept in SW. the Sith beleive that through the dark side they can overcome the will of the force, but they forget or deny the simple overriding idea, that the force governs all beings, irrespective of their affiliations.
I've not made a single assumption, I've used established ideas about the force in SW. The sith and even many Jedi are slaves to their power and ambition. A sith will destroy or try to destroy anything that blocks the road to his power. And Sith Lords when they delve deep into the dark side become corrupted by dark side energies, Palpatine's body weakened and aged quickly because of dark side energies and as a result began preparing clones to replace the body that was getting destroyed by dark side energies.
Nihilus has to consume the life force of force sensitives otherwise the dark side energies within him will destroy his body. Palpatine delved deeper in the dark side so us to know the future and thereby avoid his demise, as a result of this heavy reliance on the dark side his body began to age/rot faster than normal. Nihilus predicament isn't anything unique among Sith Lords, what distinguishes Nihilus is how his specific problem (the 'hunger') has made him inhuman.
Many Sith has had to make a great sacrifice to become powerful in the dark side. Palpatine and Sion (especially) sacrficed their bodies (among many things); Vader sacrificed friendship and love; Kreia sacrificed her ideals; Nihilus sacrificed his humanity.
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Taris was a good planet in restrospect but it was a little too long. K2 is the better game for me. The pacing seemed quite natural unlike in Kotor 1 where the game feels a little too drawn out after Malak captures Bastilla.
K2's pacing seems great until after the rebuilt enclave where ironically - for me - in contrast to Kotor 1's finish, it feels too short; things happen too quickly. Anyway both games have their issues, but Kotor 2 does what Kotor 1 doesn't do and that's dish out a fairly innovative story in the SW universe.
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You know you are arguing around in circles? And you haven't made a single point that counters my argument? First you agreed that "Sith Lord" is only a title, but if you understood what that meant, you didn't show it in your arguments. First, you don't acquire the title on a whim; you have to train; you have to be tested and finally you have to survive all that the Sith throw at you, to acquire the title of 'Sith Lord'.
In other words sacrifices need to made before you acquire the title. But once Nihilus attained his title only he could discard it or disown it. Either by denouncing his Sith title or by turning from the dark side. Read this carefully, it was not merely the force that led Nihilus to his 'hunger', but Sith teachings, so he is effectively not merely a dark jedi (which is a general term for all dark siders).
Lastly, Nihilus no longer had a need for the Sith teachings, and unlike most other Sith Lords he perceived the galaxy beyond a human vantage, because of the nature of his power. I also remember stating that though Nihilus became freed from Sith ideals, as he had no need of them (note: we are not discussing other Sith), like all Sith he was still subject to the will of the force.
All Sith are subject to the force, why do you think Palpatine relied so heavily on his prescience (his power to tell the future)? Because he wanted to escape the traps the dark side had set for him. Note also what the Jedi say of the dark side, "it leads only to suffering and ultimately destruction". Nihilus continually 'fed' on the life force of force sensitives to avoid his own destruction, much like Palpatine relied heavily on his prescience to try and avoid his own demise.
In both cases, the dark side was slowly destroying these Sith, the difference is that Palpatine's weakness didn't involve the consumption of lives. Another thing you seem to ignore is that, though the Sith code stresses freedom from all things, all great Sith are slaves to their power and ambition. Kreia even begrundgingly admits that she still leans heavily on the power of the force.
This isn't restricted to Nihilus, it's only that Nihilus has become almost completely inhuman. Palpatine and most other Sith Lords still maintained some of their humanity.
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There is nothing to agree with. He didn't stop becoming a Sith Lord, the proof is in his actions. Though he didn't care for the Sith teachings (this is not a requirement to be a Sith Lord), he retained two things that identified him as a Sith Lord, his title and Sith subjects.
A Sith Lord doesn't need to follow Sith teachings, if he has attained the power he sought after. The Sith teachings exist only to help a Sith acquire his power, and among the most important teachings of the Sith is sacrificing anything in your path to power, including - in Nihilus case - Sith ideals if they no longer serve their purpose.
Nihilus didn't stop becoming a Sith, he stopped being restrained even by the Sith ways. Why do you think the Sith often destroy each other? Because the acquisition of power takes precedence over all things, including teachings. Nihilus simply became almost completley inhuman in his quest fo power.
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The list is terrible, but my vote goes to Malak. A silly character who took part in one of the cheeziest story ending fights between force sensitives in SW. Leeching dead bodies in the middle of a death match?!
Why, it's almost as ridiculous as his spandex outfit. -
Nice argument, except for one thing. You say 'no one ever mentions teachings'. Did you read any of the quotes from Kreia about Darth Nihilus that I posted? Look again...
Kreia: "And he cares nothing for the Sith, or ITS TEACHINGS...or the Jedi. And when the Jedi are dead, he will feed on the galaxy, the Republic, and eventually, consume the Sith as well. There is no future in the empty galaxy he sees. And that is why he must be stopped; the breach must sealed, before his power grows beyond what even we can hope to stop. One cannot have power of that magnitude that her master possesses and still think and perceive the universe as we do, as most of us do.
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Yes, a Sith Lord does not have to care about the people in the Sith Order to be a Sith Lord, however in the case of Darth Nihilus; during KotOR II he no longer even cares about the teachings of the Sith.
So I ask again, if you do not care about (which can also infer 'don't follow') the teachings of the Sith as well, how can anybody truly call themselves a Sith Lord if that is the case? That's like a someone saying "Oh yeah, I'm a Buddhist, but I don't care about the teachings of Buddhism." In a scenario like that, it's likely someone would reply along the lines of "WTF? How can you call yourself a Buddhist if you don't care about the teachings of Buddhism?"
You're right that Darth Nihilus devled too deep into the dark side, to the point where it took him over and consumed him, but I still don't agree that he 'never stopped becoming a Sith Lord' not only because of of the whole factor that he 'no longer cares about the teachings of the Sith' but also because one cannot have power of that magnitude and still think and perceive the galaxy as a normal Sith Lord would.
But it can be argued against me that no one ever comes right out and says that Darth Nihilus is no longer a Sith Lord, but Kreia's little talk about him in KotOR II certainly gave me the impression that he is practically just nothing but a life eating clown freak who, as Xard says talks like a flushing toilet.
To me, Nihilus was no longer a Sith Lord in KotOR II. To you, he still was. We disagree and continue to disagree, because there is no definitive answer in the game that would end the argument. But the dialogue about Nihilus (nothing) we get from the evil, cunning, manipulative, enigmatic old hag known as Kreia certainly makes me believe that Darth Nihilus is no longer a Sith Lord in KotOR II.
Oh and one last thing, DeathScepter made a good point about Nihilus being a slave to his power which according to the Sith, is a sign of weakness. I remember in KotOR when Yuthura Ban speaks about how 'the force serves us' or something like that, meaning that they are supposed to be in control of their power; not the other way around. To serve the Force (like the Jedi do) or to be a slave of the Force is considered as a failure amonst the Sith and un-Sith like.
To be a Sith is to be unencumbered by all laws, including those of the Sith, especially if they hinder someone from attaining power. As Kreia mentioned, 'Sith Lord' is merely a title that dresses an individual, in other words you can no more identify who a person is by the titles he uses than by the colour of his hair. We know Nihilus never cared for the Sith (but no one ever mentions teachings), meaning he didn't care for the body of the Sith (its physical numbers), that's why Kreia mentions he'd consume the Sith eventually. Otherwise, how would you (literally) consume an ideal?
Secondly, the Sith ideal stresses freedom from restraints, even restraints from the force (but as we've seen this is not possible). At the end of the day Nihilus became a slave to power, and not because he was weak, but because ambition for power is a universal weakness amongst all great Sith. Nihilus just followed through all the way to frightening bitter end, and paid the price.
There is no rule governing who a Sith Lord is once the title has been attained. You only stop becoming a Sith Lord once you've either denounced their code or turned from the dark side: two things Nihilus didn't do.
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As I wrote, Nihilus has attained power to a point where it's impossible for him to control. And that is the lesson of the dark side: it leads to death and destruction.
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Doesn't this contradict what you were saying before, about Nihilus giving the hunger a purpose? If 'power has its own purpose', then the hunger has its own purpose. Add that to the fact that Kreia says it has its own will, its own instincts and I fail to see how Nihilus gave the hunger a purpose, since it has its own purpose.
I do agree though that Nihilus was just a Sith who had unlocked the power of the dark side to a point where it has grown too much for a human to control without it consuming him. Eventually, he was consumed that much that he no longer cared for the Sith or its teachings (no longer making him a Sith Lord) and only cared about feeding his hunger.
When Bane said 'power is its own purpose', he didn't mean power hasa purpose, he meant powers only purpose is power. The power Nihilus wielded had no purpose except its own power, Nihilus merely gave that power direction. The argument here is does a Sith Lord have to care about the Sith order to be a Sith? I'll direct you to the Sith code.
Peace is a lie there is only passion through passion I gain strength; through strength I gain power; through power I gain victory; through victory my chains are broken; the force shal free me. Now, one thing is consitent with all great Sith Lords, they are selfish and only meet there end through inevitable death. A Sith Lord only cares about the Sith order if it is as means to acquire and maintain power.
If there is a hierachy of authority(however large or small) a Sith Lord will look to use it to advance himself. If there are apprentices a Sith will either kill them or use them, to gain and maintain his power. But what happens when a Sith Lord acquires the fullest human extent of dark side power? The Sith order no longer becomes important only the force, and that's what happened to Nihilus. He didn't stop becoming a Sith Lord, he just devled too deep into the dark side, to a point where most Sith Lords wouldn't dare delve. The Sith order eventually becomes a victim sacrificed to attain power for Nihilus. Nihilus represents the deepest darkness of the force.
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As Bane said, "power is its own purpose". Nihilus is just a Sith who has unlocked the power of the dark side to a point where it has grown too much for a human to control without it consuming him. If I remember correctly, Palpatine's body was also corrupted and consumed by the dark energies he attained.
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Just live with it. Darth (Sith title for a Dark Lord of the Sith Order) Nihilus, is a Sith Lord. What is a proper Sith Lord? Is there some mystical criteria that a character must pass to be considered a proper Sith Lord? He received his Sith title (naturally like most every other Sith Lord) by completing his training in the Sith arts. A Sith's primary purpose is to attain power, this priority overrrides all others. A Sith has never had to care for the posterity of the order. Posterity only becomes a consideration if it is a means to attain or maintain power, Nihilus simply has another more direct means of attaining that power. His purpose is to extuingish life because he beleives its (life) only purpose is to feed his 'hunger'.
As Kreia's apprentice he had an insutiable hunger for power and through unknown means acquired the ability to strip his victims of the force and feed of their force energies to grow stronger. Somewhere along the line he lost complete control of his power and could at best only direct his "hunger" towards other life forms to keep it from consuming him entirely. It's obvious that the 'hunger' is a primal thing, not Nihilus. Kreia mentions that his hunger (not Nihilus) is a primal thing and it consumes him as he consumes others. Notice how she mentions: "it consumes him" meaning she is talking about his 'hunger'. The hunger - we know - has a will of its own but it is not a conscious entity as you seem to be implying.
Nihilus is the one who gives the 'hunger' purpose, he's the one who provides it with a means to draw force energy from living things. Without Nihilus the 'hunger' wouldn't exist. The 'hunger' is merely a manifestation of the raw power of the dark side, uncontrollable and all consuming. Nihilus is an example of a Sith Lord who's attained raw power to it's fullest extension - to a point where it's not humanly possible to fully control.
) It was your silly argument in the first place, you should know how to defend that argument beyond: "he was not a Sith Lord because he didn't care about Sith teachings" arguments. So what?! He was still a damned Sith Lord and he still used the Sith arts.
Anyone Else Think G0-T0 Was A Brilliant Chracter?
in Star Wars: General Discussion
Posted
I thought he was a really good character. His back story also makes him more interesting than that of a typical mob boss. His voice actor also delivers his personality very well.