flamesium
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Posts posted by flamesium
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Point 3: This is a global game mechanics, that is the same for all classes. I really don't see how this makes any particular class better than others.
Because the old 'Per Rest' classes benefit from the shift to Per Encounter more than the other classes.
All classes have/had per rest and per encounter abilities. To refer to my very first statement: how does this benefit priests more than (for example) wizards?
Which per rest abilities did Chanter and Cipher have? Wizard, Druid and Priest were the only classes built around the Per Rest idea, most of the others only had a couple of per rest abilities max.
Wizard isn't a valid example because it's another of the Per Rest classes.
If the 'global game mechanic' shifts to Per Encounter across the board then -everything else being equal- that's going to benefit the Per Rest classes more than the ones which were already Per Encounter, obviously.
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Point 3: This is a global game mechanics, that is the same for all classes. I really don't see how this makes any particular class better than others.
Because the old 'Per Rest' classes benefit from the shift to Per Encounter more than the other classes.
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Seems like when someone mentions "rest" some others immediately think of "Having to rest every two minutes" and like, "Yikes! Please god no!"
I also get the impression that factors like counter-based mechanics, full HP regen, and rest buffs lasting essentially permanently until next rest, are there so that resting is as least of a chore as possible. In my first post, I was only pointing out that, the way it is right now, you never have to rest at all, and you get to keep the permanent rest buffs as well as all resources in your stash. I wasn't asking for "Having to rest every two minutes" (funny how someone instantly thought of this). Aside from being a gameplay factor, resting is also a roleplaying factor. To me, having no incentive whatsoever to rest (except to get that cool buff) is a hit to the roleplaying aspect. The fact that your character can get beaten to near unconscious with 1 HP left during a massive encounter, as long as they don't get knocked out, they will simply get all that HP back afterward, no fatigue, no injuries, no nothing, like absolutely nothing happened, just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. So maybe not "every two minutes", but at least something like *needing* to rest every 5 encounters or so, yeah?
That said, I *have* been enjoying the game, including the combat, and I do find combat fun. I'm just pointing out something that could use some improvement. So take it easy.
This a million times. It's such a bummer to me that you can barely survive an encounter but as soon as you kill that last enemy, poof, you're back to being at your very best. Losing *that* sense of attrition was a bigger hit to the game for me than the straight up mechanical ones.
That said, for people who say that you can abuse per-rest camping, I mean... you can abuse per-encounter as well. I completely broke a lot of the high-level encounters
(to the point where enemies didn't even get to touch my party) with Wizard spells over and over again, and there would've been no way to do that with a per-rest system except if I was insane enough to sail back to port go get more resting supplies every couple of battles.
But yep, for me the biggest loss of per-rest stuff is just for the feels honestly. That my casters can unleash the holy fires of hell like it's nothing for each single battle, over and over again. Theoretically, knowing that a player should have a full arsenal for each encounter would make it all way easier to balance but... for me it sucks a lot of flavor out of the system, it feels boring.
I think the intent was that you didn't spend 80% of fights deliberately not using most of the tools at your disposal. The per rest Empowers would then take the place of your traditional big bad saved up spell.
It was a neat solution I think (though I don't think Empowers should be able to give you back resources) but like so much of the combat it is currently rendered obsolete by the absence of difficulty.
I think it's hard to judge the combat mechanics with the current level of difficulty. It wouldn't be any different with a full Per Rest system at the moment because using abilities in every non-boss fight is entirely optional.
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Also, here's how to fix the resting system:
Separate resting into two different types: "FULL REST" and "QUICK REST".
If you are anywhere but on your ship or inside of a city inn, you can only quick rest. You have 2 quick rests available, which get fully replenished every time you do a FULL REST.
A "quick rest" removes one wound from every character, gives you one point of empowerment on every character, and replenishes one use of "per rest" abilities. You only have 2 quick rests so there's some strategy involved in when to use them.
If you run out of QUICK RESTS you have to do a FULL REST either in an inn or on your ship. It resets everything. All your wounds, your empowerment and all your per rest abilities.
Unless it also locks you in to or forces you to reset the dungeon you're currently in it's pointless. You haven't added genuine challenge if the only thing between you and a 'Full Rest' is load screens and a walk, you've just added busy work.
A game mechanic should never rely on the player's dread of load screens for it to work.
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Enemy levels should generally be at least a couple higher than your own (with Scale Up selected).
Some fights with significantly more enemy numbers so they have a chance of overwhelming your front line.
More enemy mobility so they can bypass your front line entirely. Combat currently feels a bit too much like PoE OC; White March made combat feel a lot more mobile and it was better for it.
More enemies with Pen high enough that you need to use Pen modals sometimes.
More enemies who are virtually invincible in some defenses with only one or two weak defenses.
Enemy squishies more able to get away from you once you get to them.
Enemy front liners should be TOUGH, especially in deflection. Your front line shouldn’t have butchered their front line while the casters on both sides are still warming up their first spells. Actually the first spell cast for everyone should probably have a massively reduced cast time, like they had it ‘in the chamber’ and ready to go.
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The modals of all weapons also should be looked at. Currently the cons vastly outweigh the pros.
A lot of this is due to balancing. No point having a modal to raise Pen if you never need to.
I find a few of the modals to be very good though, particularly the ones which lower a certain defense (Morning Star, Pike etc) or lower Accuracy (Hatchets). I usually have Eder lowering Fortitude with the Morning Star modal, which my Barb can target instead of deflection (whichever is lower) thanks to Brute Force.
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As a single class Ranger seems very undercooked compared to every other class. I think Ranger probably needs a suite of additional actives for debuffing various enemy defenses: Screaming Shots to lower Will, Distracting Barrage to lower Deflection, that sort of thing. Along with having a pet I tend to think of Rangers as skirmishers, who would traditionally have the task of harassing the enemy -skills like this would fit that theme.
I'm surprised Priest is so high in the poll. It seems very powerful to me but maybe the difficulty level just isn't there for Priest to shine at the moment.
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Hey guys,
So I decided I wanted to bring in one of my old characters into Deadfire. I wanted to try out the Marauder multiclass option, because I feel like that best fits his character build in the campaign where I usually play him (He's a Barbarian, but the extra crit damage and recovery time when flanked and bloodied sound really cool). I was hoping for some pointers as to stat allocation for a build like this, keeping in mind that I'd prefer not to have a 'dump stat' if it all possible. I was thinking something like...
Human (Meadowfolk)
Aedyr Background
Stats:
18 Might (17 + 1)
14 Constitution (14)
8 Dexterity
16 Perception
10 Intellect
11 Resolve (10 + 2)
Weapons: Not sure - Either dual wield sabers or saber and shield.
What do you guys think? I'm not going for the best damage here, just a build that'll do reasonably high damage in both single target and AoE situations. Also, I'd love to hear from people who've played this sort of character through the game. How did it work out for you? What are some must-have skills to pick at each level? Are there any Barbarian multiclasses you would recommend over this one?
Thank you, and have a wonderful day.
Consider Berserker Helwalker. The play style will likely be very similar but I think you will ultimately get far more out of Helwalker than you will from Streetfighter.
This is my character with all attribute buffing equipment removed and no buffs from other party members. First pic is before a fight, second pic is during with 10 Wounds stacked (which doesn't take long as the idea is to hardly spend them), Turning Wheel (modal), Frenzy, Swift Flurry and Enlightened Agony active.
That's +10 Might from Helwalker (Wounds), +5 Might from Frenzy, +5 Con from Frenzy, +5 Dex from Flurry, +10 Int from Turning Wheel, +2 Armour and + 2 Pen from Berserker's Frenzy Bonus and 50% Burn Damage added to melee weapons from Turning Wheel (though I think this last one is bugged, doesn't seem to get added for me).
Confusion from Berserker's Frenzy gets immediately wiped by Enlightened Agony, although the lower version Clarity of Agony will also do the same thing. You won't get the +5 Int from Enlightened Agony even if you activate it twice, because it gets suppressed by the +10 from Turning Wheel.
Switching the Turning Wheel modal to Iron Wheel is not really worth considering, as the Armour bonus (which is like 2.5 when you have max wounds) doesn't stack with the +2 you already get from Berserker's Frenzy bonus. You would suppress the +5 Con from Frenzy and upgrade to +10 Con from Iron Wheel, but you sacrifice the +10 Int & 50% Burn Damage (if it worked) from Turning Wheel.
Turning Wheel's Int buff is far more valuable because the Int bonus keeps Frenzy and Flurry going 50% longer than they otherwise would, you get a huge Will buff and presumably it extends the Carnage area significantly, though that's hard to confirm.
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Definitely Scale Up All.
I agree the lack of difficulty indicator is annoying (it’s being changed) but unless you make a habit of going to places without a quest or bounty leading you there I don’t think you will get in over your head that often. Especially with the difficulty as low as it is by now.
Obviously if you insist on exploring areas at random then meeting enemies who will kick your ass is the risk you take, which is probably how it should be.
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Same issue, 3rd slot on Eder.
I find the modal of one weapon set deactivating when you switch to another set annoying too. When you go back to the first set the modal should be however you left it.
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Is Maia good for this too?You should use the console and summon CRE_dummy for testing purposes. They have a lot of health and don't go down so quickly. They also don't attack by themselves.
Same concept is also great with a Ranger/Rogue with Wounding Shots and Predator's Sense. Wounding Shots has its own DoT and it is very cheap.
Combining Arterial Strike with a good movement skill (Evasive Roll for example) is also bonkers. You strike with all those DoTs, evade to the next target, repeat. They want to follow you but get tons of raw damage while moving. Also works well with Wild Sprint from the barb.
Currently maining Goldpact Paladin/Troubadour with stats into arcane as well for scroll power.
EDIT:
I did SpawnPrefabAtMouse cre_dummy but it died almost instantly to that build :S
Maia as Scout seems excellent. I mainly use Gouging Strike as an opener (gives a permanent DoT) which sets up Predator’s Sense for Ishi, then just have her set to take Devastating Blow shots with Arquebus at the ‘highest health’ target under 50% health.
Idk about Barb Streetfighter, but I’ve been using Berserker Helwalker melee and it’s ridiculous. Having 10 wounds stacked gives you insane buffs (+10 Might from Helwalker, +5 Might from Berserk, +10 Int and 50% burn damage from Turning Wheel), and you avoid the downside from Berserker because Clarity of Agony can remove confusion as soon as you Frenzy. Swift Flurry and Barbaric Smash also complement each other.
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This quest needed other ways to progress the conversation with Serafen’s friend.
I played this quest very early, was nowhere near the insight check iirc, so after chasing this guy across half the deadfire the conversation at the end amounted to something like:
“I’m leaving”
“Ok”
That's really just the issue with the game being open world and some people rush through something too fast it breaks the pacing.Multiple quests in this game open new options if you do other quests first and drag the other char along. Sayuka is supposed to be a level 13 area or something and by level 13, you will have the multiple quests done with the pirate to learn about the secret slavery deal in the Principi and Royal Deadfire deal in Sayuka.
The game seemed to push me towards doing Serafen's quest ASAP so I did, and there's no way to tell the intended levels of areas with Scale Up on. Perhaps the messed up companion reputation system made his quest trigger earlier than intended.
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There’s one in Sakuya on the dock but I think he’s bugged. You can talk him into giving you an amulet though.
Marofeto Liano, on the northwestern side. My understanding is that one of his dialogue options leads to an amulet (and no training), the other opens up skill training.
It’s weird though because you can still get him to offer you the training after taking the amulet, but your only available reply is to refuse. It seems like a bug rather than intentional.
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Maia (Scout) & Ishi find everything for me, which make them locked in my party with Eder on Mechanics.
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I think you also have to ask Syri about it first, with Serafen present? She is in the Court close to the entrance.
I’m pretty sure I triggered the chest conversation before talking to Syri. If you enter through the Forge you are likely to find the chest first.
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This quest needed other ways to progress the conversation with Serafen’s friend.
I played this quest very early, was nowhere near the insight check iirc, so after chasing this guy across half the deadfire the conversation at the end amounted to something like:
“I’m leaving”
“Ok”
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There’s one in Sakuya on the dock but I think he’s bugged. You can talk him into giving you an amulet though.
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Perhaps an alternative to injuries would be to have a 'party morale' system similar to the ship morale system. If a party member gets knocked out in a fight you take a hit to party morale, a bigger hit for multiple party members knocked out in a fight, a smaller boost if you clear a fight with nobody getting knocked out etc. There could be bunch of other ways of affecting it like success and failure in the vignettes. The impact of high or low party morale shouldn't be so high that you want to reload every time someone gets knocked out, but just enough that you are at least trying to play well in every fight to keep it high. Somewhere in the region of a party wide +5/+10 to accuracy and defenses and +1 power level if party morale is maxed out, and the opposite at the low end. The exact impact of it could vary with difficulty level.
You have my curiosity.
How do you regain morale if you got your butt totally kicked in a dungeon? Tavern? Game is back to running to tavern and back again. And if you can carry stuff that gives morale (beer!) then again same problem as with injuries and food before. I honestly like this party morale thing more than the injury system, imho they could as well both be implemented cotemporally, but that still leaves the problem of abundance of resources unsolved.
Of course you could make it simple, winning battles raises morale and party member being knocked unconscious lowers morale, but that's a pretty punishing system if you get into the bad end of the morale spectrum. Can't win a fight anymore since stats are terrible, so you can't raise morale. A system like that would have to be optional, there is no way they implement that universally.
I guess it does the same thing, you mentioned the vignettes, like with the ship when I took it down to 1 it gave me plenty of opportunity to raise morale with scripted interactions. It's actually very difficult to get your crew to mutiny.
No I would completely remove it from the concept of 'going back to town' / resting / using consumable resources, for the reasons you describe. KOs, triggering traps, failing checks in vignettes etc. would lower it. Winning fights without any KOs, success in vignettes etc, maybe doing a good deed and refusing the offered coin etc. would raise it.
I don't envisage it being powerful enough at either end of the spectrum to determine alone whether a given fight becomes unwinnable or trivial, just a slight nudge one way or the other (maybe a more serious nudge towards difficult on higher difficulty levels).
The intent of the system would be to encourage players to try and play well even during the regular encounters, rather than to massively punish them for failing to do so. I don't think it would take a huge buff in combat terms for most players to feel protective of their high morale rating. Maybe throw in a few bonus party banters which can only trigger when morale is high, something like that.
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I disagree @Tigranes. The absence of difficulty is by far the main reason for why you can currently play in a repetitive way. If / when the game is balanced correctly, on the higher difficulty levels you should not be able to succeed using the same tactics in every fight, unless the composition of the enemy is the same in every encounter which would also be bad design.
Tactical variety doesn't have to be forced on the player by attrition, it can (and imo should) come from different encounters requiring the player to choose different tactics to overcome. Each encounter should be a puzzle to be solved in its own right. There should be no one tactic or character build which dominates every fight.
The biggest problem with the 'per rest' system is that the difficulty of any given fight will be overly dictated by whether or not you have just rested. The difference in capability between a rested party and an exhausted party is massive, the encounter designer attempts to balance for somewhere in between and the result is a fight which is trivial for a rested party. I'd also argue this approach has its own problems with repetition, as you inevitably spend the majority of a dungeon ignoring half of the tools at your disposal and hoarding them to spam the final encounter with.
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I understand why they don't, and tbh it's hard to understand how they didn't notice that difficulty/level scaling and imports were so broken from their own testing.
I appreciate it will be difficult to test every possible import combination, but that doesn't seem to explain the Vela situation for instance (you either took her or you didn't) or that level scaling was -afaik- universally not working. It shouldn't take extensive public beta testing to catch these sorts of problems.
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Hell the hack 'n slash genre is already a testament to per encounter combat, that not being arbitrarily restricted on your character is much better and more fun gameplay. As well as almost any other game and genre ever made, for that matter.....Apparently only the per rest system can be challenging, have you scraping the bottom of the barrel and generally make for some epic stories. Restriction = great gameplay.You guys are just too set in your way, just plain refusing to see the logic of how not only is everything of per rest attainable with per encounter (when the game has actually been balanced) but that it's much less restrictive, fun and just flat out better.Which is unfortunate.
I cannot disagree more with this post. First of all, hack and slash games rely upon testing the player's skill in a realtime setting. However, realtime with pause is not the same thing. Realtime with pause is designed to test thoughtful tactics and strategy, it is essentially a less tedious way of having turn-based combat. Hack and slash games are about testing quick reflexes and quick thinking. This is a significant thing to misunderstand.
Second, restriction can indeed equal great gameplay. If all the pawns on a chessboard could move like a queen, the game would not have the same level of strategic depth and never would have become a timeless classic. Games are *all* about restricting the player. Too much restriction or too little restriction isn't a virtuous characteristic of a game in of itself. Whether restrictions or freedoms work for the game is what matters. Again, this is a significant thing to misunderstand.
Chess is a timeless classic because it puts both players on an even footing at the beginning of each encounter. You don't get to the final of a Chess tournament and find you can't use your Queen because you already used her in an earlier round, nor do you find you have 4 Queens because you chose to never use her in any of the earlier rounds.
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Ultimately this whole discussion 'per encounter' vs 'per rest' discussion boils down to whether you want dungeons to consist of a series of seperate fights which are challenging in their own right, or effectively be one long fight which is challenging when taken as a whole. Both have merit. I do think the latter system becomes completely pointless if you allow the player to leave and get more Rest supplies whenever they want however - that isn't challenging, it's just busy work. The 'challenge' should never come from a player's dread of load screens and a 5 minute hike.
Obviously in a true 'per encounter' system (ie. ignoring Empower, which is 'per use' and only serves to further break the 'per encounter' balance) it hardly matters if you can rest anywhere as resting is far less OP than it is in a 'per use' system. The only remaining purposes it serves are to give food buffs -which might as well just be separate and treated like any other consumable- and to remove injuries, and imo the injury system needs a total re-think either way.
The only way I can think that injuries can be made meaningful is if you are locked into a dungeon until you 'complete' it or choose to reset the entire thing, which probably causes more problems than it solves. If it's completely trivial to remove injuries (as is the case now) they are pointless. If you can leave a dungeon whenever you want to get an injury healed then you are relying on 'load screen dread' and busy work as the only consequence in the player's decision making, which is horrendous and inexcusable game design. For the injury system to justify its existence, removing injuries needs to have a non-trivial consequence but that consequence can't be load screens and backtracking.
Perhaps an alternative to injuries would be to have a 'party morale' system similar to the ship morale system. If a party member gets knocked out in a fight you take a hit to party morale, a bigger hit for multiple party members knocked out in a fight, a smaller boost if you clear a fight with nobody getting knocked out etc. There could be bunch of other ways of affecting it like success and failure in the vignettes. The impact of high or low party morale shouldn't be so high that you want to reload every time someone gets knocked out, but just enough that you are at least trying to play well in every fight to keep it high. Somewhere in the region of a party wide +5/+10 to accuracy and defenses and +1 power level if party morale is maxed out, and the opposite at the low end. The exact impact of it could vary with difficulty level.
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What you really remember, what really has you on the edge of your seat, is when only your wizard is left standing in BG1 and out of arrows, you're firing off every consumable you ever found in your inventory at the hulking enemy hoping your stoneskin won't run out. It's when the dungeon has bled your health and spells dry, and you're trying to figure out how to take on that last group of shadows with only two scrolls of Fan the Flames - instead of fighting every single fight with the same abilities over and over again. It's when you think you've just about taken out this tough enemy, and then they roll a crit on your guy and smash him to pieces, pulling off a heroic victory for the wrong side.
No reason you can’t have this ‘scraping the barrel’ scenario with a ‘per encounter’ system once it’s balanced correctly. Actually it should be more likely to happen with ‘per encounter’ because you can’t save 10 fights worth of top abilities to spam on the ‘hard’ fight even if you want to, plus you should be able to end up running on fumes in any given fight, not only the last one or two in an area.
The only thing preventing that right now is difficulty level being miles off and the fact that being able to use ‘Empower’ to replenish resources is basically cheating.
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Ideally if the game is balanced correctly and you select an appropriate difficulty for your skill level then most fights should carry the threat of one or more party members dying if you don’t play well. Each encounter should be challenging in its own right.
I’d prefer to have 10/10 engaging fights in an area than have the first 9 be boring because you’re saving your best abilities for the boss fight, then have the boss fight be easy because you’ve saved all your top abilities for it and it’s had to be balanced for people who haven’t.
Nothing could ever be more boring than having to run back through multiple load screens to go get more camping supplies. Only resting in inns could be an option for people who want it, although anyone who really wants that could self-impose it right now.
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Not a lot of call for pikes in the Deadfire I guess. I can’t remember if I’ve even seen regular pikes let alone uniques.
How much stealth?
in Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Characters Builds, Strategies & the Unity Engine (Spoiler Warning!)
Posted
Most things you can unlock and look in in plain sight and nobody cares until you take something. Occasionally you get one where they flip out but I haven't noticed a specific reason why.
There's a chest in the Valian Trading Company Director's office where if they see you pick the lock they will turn hostile, Pallegina will turn hostile if present, and every remaining VTC quest will flash up on screen as failed one after another (and the quest titles are kinda spoilery). So you might wanna avoid that.