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Void3dge

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Posts posted by Void3dge

  1. I find the whole argument about damage math pointless unless the design goal is clearly defined in the first place. Before discussing further which dps formula is the best one, we should answer questions like :

     

    - Shall weapons/armour belongs in well-defined categories ?

    - What parameters describes weapons/armour ?

    - What parameters describes characters ?

    - Do we want weapons / weapon styles / armours to be equally effective in all situations ?

    - ....

     

    For instance, if the design goal is like :

    - Fast weapons should do more damage to naked folk

    - Slow weapons have more DR bypass

    - Heavy weapons should benefits more from might

    - Two-handed weapons crits should cut

    - Damage multipliers (Critical strikes / grazes / sneaks) sums up and affects the net damage output

    - Critical strikes / grazes / sneaks affects the net damage output

     

    We could use a formula like

    Total_Damage= (Weapon_Damage*Might_Multiplier - min(0,DR-DRbypass) )*(1+critical_multiplier+sneak_multiplier)

     

    Another design could be like :

    - DR is applied on the final damage

    - Might give a net damage increase before DR

    - Armours have a stat which reduce critical multiplier

    - Sneaks give a flat extra damage

    - Critical strikes / grazes / affects base weapon damage

     

    With the damage formula :

    Total_Damage= (Weapon_Damage*(1+critical_multiplier-armour_crit_reduction) + sneak_damage)*Might_Multiplier - DR

     

    Neither of these formulas is right or wrong. The question is : what gameplay do we want ?

  2. I'm playing on Hard... Elder bears (Ogre encounter )stomped my party with systematic crits @ 250, even on a buffed up (hatchet,food,BB priest buffs...) BB fighter.
    I managed to beat them with Slicken which perma knocked-down foes (making the fight ridiculously easy. no hard counter ?)

     

    Yet ... the damage output and graze / crit range do not feel right.

  3. Abusable? No. It just leads to less fun and makes games boring and without challenge.

     

    Abusing a system in a solo gane is up to the player. If he do so and spoil the challenge, then the problem comes from the player in the first place.

     

    In IE games there was an abuse that would lead to a stupid game. You could fight mages by waiting by stairs to another level, wait until the mage started casting a spell and click to exit to another level. Then come back and repeat the process until the mage has spent all spells

     

    I noticed this trick in BG2 while fighting lichs in Athkatla :D

    So what ? Again, nobody points a gun against the head of the player to force him to abuse the system...

  4. imo, the engagement system is a good evolution from IE ridiculous combat motion. I believe it can be easely balanced to prevent the exploits you show in your videos. Razsius proposed robusts fixes in this post.

    Anyway, since PoE is a solo game, the balance is not as relevant as in competitive multiplayer RTS.
    @Sensuki : if you dislike the exploits of engagement attacks ... just don't do it ?

    • Like 1
  5. It's also a question from someone not in beta and therefore posting from what he's noticed so far without first hand experience with it. And so far, I've mainly seen comments about "moderating" it, while I find the concept itself to be flawed at it's core.

     

    What exactly does it add to your experience? Why is it even there?

     

    Answers to that so far have been

    1) Lore: "there is no healing magic, injuries and disease matter"

    This is the easiest to disprove: you can go from "1 inch of total death" to "completely fine" in 8 hours and nobody even bothered to provide any "lore" reason as to why camping supplies are limited in any way shape or form and time is clearly not something that matters from what we can see now. It's cool in theory, but that's just a silly excuse in practice.

     

    2) To prevent abuse: "no more rest-spamming abuse"

    Also very easy to disprove: You can still spam-rest, it's just more frustrating to do so. The entire game system still pushes you to spam-rest if you want to, still based on per rest abilities. Heck, it's even worse now because that's the ONLY way to actually heal...

    The current system is like putting "camping supplies" in the IE engine, artificially limit how many are available to the player based on arbitrary reasons (difficulty setting? really?), and say: problem solved.

    Nothing's solved really. People who liked using it will keep using it and just be more frustrated because they have to "zooom" through maps back to the inn at max speed then come back. People who didn't like using it will be frustrated because of that completely abstract and illogical mechanic punishes them at the slightest mistake! Who is the winner here exactly?

     

    3) To make the game more challenging

    Challenging for what? for who? how? You do not make things more challenging with completely arbitrary game mechanics but by actually designing proper challenges then let the players tailor their own reaction to these challenges.

    In single player games, all challenges are a compromise by the player between his belief of "fairness" and his desire to "overcome" a given challenge. Some, like myself, rarely spam-rest in IE games for example, or max/dump stats. Others dump stats and bee-line for easy to get magical items. Others just hack save games to give infinite gold or XP or whatever. There is no "good" or "bad" way in a single player game. Each of us make that compromise to some extent, each of us adapt to a given challenge differently and there is no right or wrong way!

    That said, there is the "intent", the "vision" of the people who designed the challenges in the first place. That's what matters on their side: what is their intent in a given challenge, what do they want to focus on. Going the other way around and designing on what they want to limit or prevent is completely wasted I think.

    Someone who makes crappy challenges and then makes them more difficult because of completely artificial mechanics isn't making good challenges, they're still just making crappy ones.

     

    I mean, sure you can tweak the system all you want, but at the end of the day, it adds nothing of value at best and makes things frustrating otherwise and all that tweaking is just wasted manpower on nothing.

     

     

    I agree with much of mutonizer said, yet I think that the system is tweakable. I kie the idea of separating exhaustion from fighting and light wounds and scratch (represented by stamina) and more serious injuries (represented by health). However, the main issue right now is that rest is mostly driven by front liners, while the rest of the party is taking almost no damage. Chaning the stamina to health ratio as Sensuki proposed could make frontliners lasts longer, but do not really fix core flwas.

    Here are my suggestions :

     

    1) STAMINA

    - The max stamina stays related to CON

    - CON gives in fight stamina regeneration.

    - Deflection score account for parrying / blocking / dodging an attack. If the target of the attack uses a shield, the deflection costs no stamina. If the target uses a melee weapon, it costs a small amount of stamina based on the attack dmg (for instance, 20% of the damage), If the target use a ranged weapon, it costs a higher amount of stamina.

    - If the attack is not deflected, damage is reduced accoring to armor DT. If the hit is critical, damage is done directly on health (no damage bonus). If the hit is not critical, damage is inflicted on stamina.

    - Add a stamina cost to some actions as runing, spellcasting ...

    - If stamina goes to 0, the regeneration stops and the character fall on ground as usual, losing 20% of health.

     

    2) HEALTH

    - Turn back might into strenght. put the magic damage eleswhere.

    - The max health is now related to STR. more muscle mass, more damage taken.

    - xx% of health is also regained after an encounter.

    - Every time 20% of hp is lost dutring a fight, add a severe wound (-2 to a random stats). wounds can stack, and have a long duration (3 rests for instance = 24h)

    - If a character stacks 10 severe wounds, he dies.

     

    EXPLANATIONS :

    With this system, defenders should be able to hold the line much longer, thanks to deflection mecanics costing no stamina + stamina regeneration.

    Other melee fighters will be able to hold head more eeffectively. Since many spells and ability using cost stamina, they have to be used more wisely / strategically. Rest will be less necessary. Critical hits will not one-shot characters, but cause severes wounds => rest.

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