Kilkanon
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Posts posted by Kilkanon
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Anakin had a second chance to defeat Dooku - and with two lightsabers-, but was humiliated. Obi wan was thoroughly beaten by Dooku. Actually in Episode 3 I think it's Anakin and Palps that gang up to kill Dooku. Except for yoda, nobody can go toe to toe with this guy in a one on one duel. He is the jedi/sith dueling master,
So palps first learnt how to use a lightsaber as an adult, not a child? well that discounts his ability all togethor,
Niether Obi nor Anakin by themselves was a match for Dooku, granted. Obi-Wan knew this which is why he told Anakin that he needed him for the encounter with Dooku. Anakin was at best an average duelist at the time of this encounter due simply to lack of experience and too much pride. He thought he was much better than he was which ended up making him a bit complacent. However, Obi-Wan and Anakin together might have been able to take him.
As for Palps, I don't know if he learned the saber when a child or an adult but as Palps was very strong in the force and the Sith training isn't anything like Jedi training it ends up making little difference. Is he one of the best? I don't think so, but he would have to be at least above average in order to train Maul and Vader and then hold power over them for as long as he did. Sith teachings being what they are.
Kilkanon
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and don't forget he totally owned the both of them in Episode 2 (or am I wwrong about this, please corect me if I am), toyed with Yoda until republic re enforcements were about to arrive.
Dooku had it easy because Anakin was arrogant and stupid. Had Anakin listened to Obi-Wan it would likely have been a very different story. And Dooku was not toying with Yoda. If Dooku had seen a chance to effectively "behead" the Jedi Council he would not have hesitated for a nanosecond. No, they were testing one another and after finding no major weaknesses Dooku decided to make a strategic retreat. After all, his true concern was getting the plans for the Death Star to Sidious.
anyway how did palpitine even learn to use a lighsaber? Who taught him, did he he 'pick it up' on his way to the dark side? If so he would be comparitivley useless with one...He was apprenticed to a Sith Lord named Darth Pelagius whom he eventually killed as is the way with the Sith. I don't know much other than that.
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I liked Bastilla and Carth and they were the two that I kept around when I wasn't doing quests for the others. I really liked Jolee and HK too but I would say that I spent the most time with Bastilla and Carth and sometimes just Bastilla because I wanted her all to myself...
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Here's my unorthodox answer based on all the movies together, prequels included. Luke was able to make such decisions and be "powerful" precisely BECAUSE he had so little training. Think about it. The choice he made to believe in the good in Vader was NOT an typical Jedi decision. No way in hell Yoda would have done it. Such attachments are NOT the way of the old Jedi. The decision to leave his training with Yoda to save his friends was NOT the decision of a traditional Jedi, because once again, attachments are forbidden. Luke is a different kind of Jedi than Yoda and Obi Wan were. The Old Jedi Order was deficient in its teachings. The Chosen One, Vader, brought balance to the Force, and the Order, by exposing that flaw and bringing about Luke, who would become and train the true Jedi, who know that attachments are not something to flee from. It is precisely this difference, which never would have come about if he had years and years of training, that allowed Luke to win his most important victory.
Mahf, I believe you are correct and daresay I couldn't say it better myself. My original post was made in the interests if finding an official answer to this question but as none is available I would say that this fills in many of the blanks.
Kilkanon
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I believe Lord Helmet said it best...
"I was your father's, brother's, uncle's, cousin's former roommate..."
"Ok, so what does that make us?"
"Absolutely nothing, which is what you are about to become!"
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Vader had been killing Imperial Officers for around 20(?) years before he faced Luke. *FIXED*
I am not sure if you are just making a joke or if you are saying that Vader didn't really kill many Jedi. Sooo... I will say that it took a while for Sidious and Vader to (almost) completely wipe the Jedi from the galaxy. And as usual Sidious did the bidding and Vader the running. So Vader had hunted and killed many Jedi before he faced Luke.
Kilkanon
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Someone had posted a link to some pretty funny comic parodies of TSL as well as other SW games including Galaxies but I can't remember what it was. Anyone help me out? Seems the comics revolved around two guys, a semi responsible one and a total underachiever. Thanks
Kilkanon
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Someone had posted a link to some pretty funny comic parodies of TSL as well as other SW games including Galaxies but I can't remember what it was. Anyone help me out? Seems the comics revolved around two guys, a semi responsible one and a total underachiever. Thanks
Kilkanon
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It was really confusing to me as well. Basically you can change your companions' on screen alignment but as far as changing their way of thinking... forget it. It ends up making no sense whatsoever and requires a DS player to keep "true DS" companions with him/her and vice versa. If you try to make decisions contrary to your companions' "true alignment" you will lose influence with them. This game was finished in 13 months. Why? I don't know, seems pretty rediculous to me. They needed to do a lot more scripting and voice acting for the "Influence" system to make any sense at all.
Kilkanon
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Even in Jedi, he doesn't do too much remarkable force stuff. Mainly just lightsaber stuff and moving stuff with the force, which is fairly basic stuff. And the Emperor has his way with Luke; only Vader's intervention saved him.
So none of this stuff seems beyond the training that Luke had, especially given his aptitude (and given that he learned from the best Jedi masters).
Well, I think we all agree that given Luke's gene pool he was what you might call "a quick study" in the force. Still, I have to disagree that Luke did little that was remarkable in ESB and ROTJ. In ESB Vader has one objective, to capture Luke. You would think capturing a boy with a few weeks of Jedi training would be a as easy as Force Choking a baby for a powerful and experienced Sith Lord such as Vader. Vader had been hunting and killing Jedi for around 20(?) years before he faced Luke. Instead, Luke defies every attempt by Vader to capture him, he even struck Vader a glancing blow on the shoulder while dueling him! Finally, instead of Vader calmly determining the sequence of events, Luke prompts what had to have been a premature, perhaps desperate revelation from Vader and then escapes by falling into a huge shaft and using the force to see him to safety. Then he uses the force to direct Leia straight to him. Pretty amazing if you ask me. In ROTJ...
Luke personally and intentionally orchastrated the downfall of both Vader and Palpatine... think about why he threw his lightsaber away. He did not leave himself defenseless because he was suddenly overcome by suicidal tendancies... Luke was paying close attention to his father's feelings, especially after he spared Vader's life just as the Emperor was crowing for Luke to kill Vader and take his place. He knew, he could feel how close his father was and so he made a choice, the most difficult and the best possible choice if you think about it and he triumphed completely over Vader, Palpatine and the dark side.
When I ask how Luke got so powerful with so little training that is what I really mean, that was power, the power of the Jedi. Many before Luke, including his own father never mastered that power and fell, but Luke did not. And all with a few weeks of Jedi training... remarkable.
Anyway, I think you all have given me the answer I asked for. There really is no official explanation as to why Luke could do so much with so little other than what is implied by his heritage, the fact that he had a stable and loving childhood and two of the finest Masters to teach him what little he did learn by formal methods. Thanks guys.
Kilkanon
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I was afraid of that answer <_< ... I was hoping that there was some really cool answer that would send me haring off to the bookstore or library in order to sate my keen desire for all things Luke. Ahh well...
Kilkanon
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I know this has probably been discussed before but I am new to, well pretty much any forums on SW and I don't want to wade through thousands of topics...
My question is this: How is it that Luke becomes so powerful in the force with only what seems to me to be a few weeks of training under Obi-Wan and then Yoda? Jedi were traditionally taken for training only while very young. Even then the average apprentice doesn't even make Padawan until he is in his early to mid teens and then has to wait another 7 to 10 years for Knighthood. That is 20 - 25 years of constant training starting from early childhood! Luke, at the age of 17(?) starts training for a few days under Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan dies, Luke finds Yoda three years later, Yoda trains him for a few weeks at most and he is uber?! Proportionately speaking, that's like giving a raw recruit, who hasn't even been through basic training, one day of Navy Seal training and then sending him off on his first mission... and somehow he not only lives but completes the mission... This question has lingered with me since I first watched ESB. Has there ever been any attempt to explain this either in the comics/books or by Lucas himself?
Kilkanon
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Um, so?
Are you really trying to imply that a debate about which fictional character is the most adept at a fictional fighting style with fictional weapons in a fictional universe is something to be taken seriously? Don't make me f*cking laugh.
Sure it's all fictional but that hasn't stopped you from posting over 2000 times on this forum alone
. That is quite an investment of precious time if you ask me. Must be something here that is important to you. -
You know... these threads are so chaotic. In large part because many people are less interested in participating in a discussion and more interested in simply airing their opinions... almost all of which are ill-informed and negative in that the one replying has not given any thought to or even fully read the post to which he/she is replying. It ends up being totally chaotic and non-sensical and almost unswervingly degrades into a parody of itself. Case in point: See above posts...
Kilkanon
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Of the known characters, Yoda is my vote.
One thing to remember too: a Sith is primarily trianed to simply kill an opponent because that is the 'quickest and easiest' thing to do; a Jedi is not trained to think or duel like that. A Jedi is taught to duel with compassion and mercy and with the long view in mind, namely the possibility of redemption or reformation through disarmament and capture or negotiation. The latter is a much more difficult form of combat and as such requires more training not only in the martial art of dueling but in one's perspective, pattern of thought and feelings. Yoda once said that the force is for "knowledge and defense, never for attack." A defensive form must, of necessity be a subtler form and as such is more physically and mentally demanding both in training and in actual combat.
Kilkanon
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Wrong gender but I would say Visas Marr... I gave up my own will to follow that of another...
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someone needs to mod this game so you can see visas face. i dont care if she has eyes like kreia, give her some hair and ill just look at the lips all game long.
/agree...
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Now if you had mentioned the Exile's ability to drain the Force from others, thusly adding it to his own - then that would've been a valid argument for his *eventual* power.
Pre-Mandalorian Wars, the exile was merely a "mediocre Jedi". Theoretically the Exile's Power could continue to increase indefinately....but we simply don't know his fate and hence, whether it does or if he 'becomes one with the Force'.
**************SPOILER ALERT***************
Three things... First, in the context of Kreia's statement about the Exile being the greatest she has ever taught it is strongly suggested that this greatness is being measured by power in the force since she doesn't make this statement until after the Exile defeats her and her three conjured sabers.
Second... This probably belongs in another thread but... oh well... As I understood the story (and I only played it through as an LS Jedi) the Exile wasn't using his wounding at Malachor V to drain others. In fact that was the very thing he had turned away from and part of the reason he cut himself off from the force. After ten years of wandering the Outer Rim he is able to come to terms with the pain of his experience enough so that in an extreme situation and with a little nudge from Kreia he lowers his mental barriers a little and allows himself to feel the force again. From that point on he recommences his journey as a Jedi, regaining his unique ability to make strong connections in the force very quickly; a peculiar talent he had from the time he was a Padawan. Not the ability to drain others but to form a deep bond with others through the force such as would be expected between a Master and student after they had spent awhile together in training. As I understood it that is the talent that brought the Exile's party together and allowed the Exile to have such influence over them. However, the Jedi counsel saw the wounding and given the Exile's peculiar talent (which they never understood) and the Exile's history (which they never fully trusted) they fear that the Exile will use this wound after the fashion of Nihilus. They even try to explain the Exile's newfound strength in the force by saying that he/she has been using the wound to drain the life energies of all those he/she has killed. However, in her ensuing rage and at other times Kreia points out that it was the Exile's disconnection from the force and his/her subsequent life without the force (not the twisted use of the wounding) that allowed the Exile to come back more powerful than ever before. At least that is how I understood it.
Thirdly... Where did you get the idea that the Exile was only "mediocre" before the Mandalorian Wars? As far as I know there was only one piece of information given regarding the Exile's pre-war life as a Jedi and that was his/her ability to make connections in the force. I don't remember anything other than that. However, you'd probably agree that it is unlikely that Revan would have made a "mediocre Jedi" a general of his army. Not saying that the Exile was another Revan at the time but simply that the meager evidence suggests that the Exile was a Jedi of at least some distinction.
Kilkanon
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Sent/Watchman
Str: 12
Dex: 16
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 14
Cha: 12
I finished the game at lvl 35 and my highest stats were dex and wis at 33 each and con at 24.
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I agree that the character development was pretty lame for, well... everyone except Kreia and the Exile. When Visas reveals her feelings for you and/or Handmaiden tells you she wants to fight by your side it wasn't nearly as moving as when Bastilla finally lets down her guard and allows herself to love. There are reasons for that though... foremost being that this game was finished in 13 months
... And secondly, it was consistent with the storyline to do with the Exile. As to whether the particular (unmentioned) portion of the storyline to do with influence was introduced at about the 11th month for the sake of expediency ... who knows? But Visas was still soooo hot!! (w00t) -
I did a dex build in both I and II mostly because I am rping and if I were a Jedi I would rather be quick and agile then strong. Anyway my build for II was 12/16/12/10/14/12. My reasons for bringing str to 12 are more to do with rping than anything else. I'd at least wanna beat Yoda in an armwrestle
! Other than that, I played a sentinal/watchman and I like these stats for that class. My ending stats were 12/20/14/10/16/12 sans equipment and 16/33/24/15/33/16 fully decked... It was kinda sick really... but I loved it!! I dual wield as well (not the double bladed saber though! I hate those things!) again more for rp reasons than anything else. I just think dual wielding is cool, hardest form to master as well.My int was low only because I know that the only skills worth increasing are Computers, Repair, Treat Injury, Persuade and Awareness. Your party will make up for the rest. I got enough points to get all these high enough to be truly useful. I put the least into Repair and just used equipment to augment it when I needed it for T3.
As for attacks... well Flurry just rocks when you are dual wielding. I love it. I did have Master Power attack as well but only used it occasionally. Some would say that my template would be boring to play but I kinda like totally pwning everything hehe. :D
Kilkanon
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It was Visas' vulnerability and incredibly sexy voice that sold me... omg that voice... umm I need to go now... :ph34r:
Kilkanon
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****** SPOILER ALERT******
Why wasn't the Exile included in this list?? He/she was a skilled and powerful Knight and an excellent strategist who understood both battle and war. These things were recognized and respected by Revan. Not only that but he/she was able to live through what should have been a lethal disturbance of the Force at Malachor V, especially considering the connections the Exile had to all under his command. Then, to take that wounding and instead of being corrupted by it as so many Jedi were, the Exile was able to walk away from incredible power and live his/her life as no other Jedi or Sith ever had... successfully, without the force for years... Learning an entirely new way to live that facilitated a much greater connection to the force later on. Not to mention the fact that one of Kreia's intentions regarding the Exile was to train one "greater than her first" or, to be specific, greater than Revan. In the final confrontation she is very pleased to see that she has obviously succeeded and openly acknowledges the Exile as the greatest she has ever trained.
To be fair neither Anakin nor Luke ever reach their full potential. Anakin because of poor choices and Luke because of circumstances beyond his control. So who really knows how powerful they could have been... The Exile however is taught first at the Jedi Academy (back when that actually meant something), then through the experience of being a general in the Mandalorian Wars under Revan and Malak, then by learning how to live without the force, then by one of the most powerful and knowlegable teachers of that time, Kreia. I would say that the Exile had it all over any on the above list except for Yoda.
I mean come on guys! Yoda had far more knowlege and skill in the force than any human ever could. His extremely high native ability aside, his longevity alone would put him above anyone on this list. He was 900 when he died! One thing that I have noticed in the continuing Star Wars stories is that for both Jedi and Sith, true power in the force is not really measuered by one's natural ability but by one's skill and experience. Yoda was cultivating skill and acquiring knowlege of the force both by study and experience for nearly a millenia! No one on this list could ever even hope to compete with that. So my vote would be as follows:
1. Yoda (hands down)
2. Exile
3. Revan
Kilkanon
PS - I also noticed while reading this thread that some people believe that Anakin is the "Chosen One". That doesn't make any sense to me. Luke is the only viable candidate for that position as Anakin certainly never fulfilled any prophecies that brought balance to anything. Luke, on the other hand, was able to orchestrate the conversion and or death of the last of the Sith Lords; the very ones throwing the force out of balance. Reference is even made in one of Zahn's later books to a dialogue that Luke had with Yoda before he died where Yoda tells Luke that balance has been restored to the force...
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Obsidian knew very well that they will never make it in time. They share fifty-fifty responsibility with Lucasgang.
First I would like to draw attention to the fact that my post was not a veiled bash on LA or anyone. When I mentioned the time constraints I said they were "seemingly unreasonable". I said that because I don't know if in fact they were unreasonable at all, only that from what I have read they seem to have been. For all I know it is just as you say and Obsidian just didn't finish on time. It happens. But I don't know that is the case and until I see proof I am not going to make statements about who knew what and when they knew it. All I wanted to say was that the game obviously wasn't shipped in its intended entirety but was still a good game and that is saying something for Obsidian.
Kilkanon
. That is quite an investment of precious time if you ask me. Must be something here that is important to you.
... And secondly, it was consistent with the storyline to do with the Exile. As to whether the particular (unmentioned) portion of the storyline to do with influence was introduced at about the 11th month for the sake of expediency 
! Other than that, I played a sentinal/watchman and I like these stats for that class. My ending stats were 12/20/14/10/16/12 sans equipment and 16/33/24/15/33/16 fully decked... It was kinda sick really... but I loved it!! I dual wield as well (not the double bladed saber though! I hate those things!) again more for rp reasons than anything else. I just think dual wielding is cool, hardest form to master as well.
Game Idea
in Computer and Console
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Morrowind too big? How is that possible?! I want games as big as they can be made!! It significantly enhances the replay value. I think it would be a great idea to make a SW galaxy as wide open as the world of Morrowind. Probably not going to happen anytime soon but it is a great idea.
Kilkanon