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Negative effects vs which attribute or alternative strategies


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#1
JFutral

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I FINALLY beat the Shadows and Phantoms at Caed Nua on my first real solo run (making a go of it as a druid). I feel like I only beat them when lady luck finally rolled my way after a gazillion restarts. It's early in the game so I have found no decent armor or accessories that protect against things like Stun or Paralyze. Not sure how I overcame the Xaurip Skirmishers' paralyze quickly enough, but the Phantoms' Stun were kicking my butt.

 

Is there a list somewhere of which attribute helps against what affliction? I couldn't even quaff a Recovery potion or cast a Protection scroll fast enough. It was quite annoying.

 

Or maybe there is a better strategy I haven't stumbled upon yet.

 

Joe



#2
JFutral

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Well, I didn't think this was that esoteric a question. Ah, well.

 

Joe



#3
Boeroer

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Err... paralyze, stun and prone target fortitude most of the time, mind control stuff targets will. The most annoying and the stuff you mentioned target fortitude and thus MIG and CON help. That's basically it.
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#4
MaxQuest

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Well, I didn't think this was that esoteric a question. Ah, well.

Perhaps potential commenters didn't want to sound too obvious :)

As Boeroer wrote, the generic affliction <-> defense is quite intuitive and iirc is displayed in the combat log.
Ofc there are few exceptions like:
- Mental Binding: Paralyze vs Will
- Silent Scream: Stun vs Will

And afaik only Blind stuff can target all 3 defences:
- Will: Searing Seal, Symbol of Magran, Curse of Blackened Sight
- Fortitude: Eyestrike, Chill Fog: Blind
- Reflex: Blinding Strike, Sunbeam

But these exceptions are not that numerous. 
 

Not sure how I overcame the Xaurip Skirmishers' paralyze quickly enough, but the Phantoms' Stun were kicking my butt. [...]Or maybe there is a better strategy I haven't stumbled upon yet.

I usually choose one party-member (usually a moon godlike placed in the middle of my party) whom I am ok with being hit a little. And use an aoe stun/paralyze once they all flock to him.
In the early-mid game through it's mostly: charm their skirmishers, ogre druids, phantoms; and paralyze those whom I want to kill first. The benefits of having two ciphers :)

Edited by MaxQuest, 13 September 2017 - 04:43 AM.


#5
Boeroer

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Chanter's Killers Froze Stiff also targets will - but I never saw an enemy chanter use this. Actually I never saw an enemy chanter use any invocation at all. Why is that?

Edited by Boeroer, 13 September 2017 - 04:47 AM.


#6
JFutral

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Yeah, well, I've learned nothing about this game is all that obvious, like affecting undead with mind control stuff. :blink: Intuition is relative.

 

Also, there must be something else going on with regard to length of affect. I guess the monster's intelligence at that point? Since the Skirmisher's paralyze lasted all of a second or two, but the Phantom's Stun I could not escape for nothing. (Not to mention there were four of them tagging me with severe regularity).

 

I was also wondering if these are also hit/crit triggered FX.

 

And this stuff in particular was easy enough to handle or even ignore with a party. It takes on a whole new significance solo.

 

Thanks guys! Much appreciated. Some things are only obvious if you've been paying attention. Obviously, I wasn't.

Joe



#7
Boeroer

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The phantoms' stun has a longer base duration I guess. And if the roll vs. fortitude crits then the duration is even 50% longer.

Edited by Boeroer, 13 September 2017 - 05:03 AM.


#8
grausch

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When playing solo the best course of action is often to avoid a fight. For this specific fight, you can sneak all the all the way to the door if you have 5 stealth. Once the triggered conversation finishes, combat will start and you would need to summon the animat (bronze horn figurine) as bait while you hide, or as I like to think of it, wait for combat to end at the stairs. Closing the door also increases the odds of you being out of line of sight when the animat dies.

If you really wish to take them on, you need Rymgard's mantle and as many scrolls of fan of flame as you can manage. I did this fight naked, by sneaking to the door, triggering combat and then using the door as a choke point while casting fan of flames until I ran out of scrolls. Not sure if being naked help for recovery time, but I managed to kill almost all of them before I ran out of scrolls. I think I only needed to kill one shade or shadow after that barrage.

Edit: during the fight I was not stunned once and did not take any real damage due to the mantle healing me whenever I got hit.

Edited by grausch, 13 September 2017 - 05:50 AM.

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#9
JFutral

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I did not have a 5 in Stealth. I did try to avoid combat. So that's why that didn't work. Good to know. I also did not have Rymgard's mantle. I did have a potion of Bulwark. I thought that made the difference until after the fight it was still in my accessories slot. So the best I can figure is it came down to the RNG.

 

For some reason I could not get off a scroll or drink a potion to (literally) save my life. I did get off several druid spells, which ultimately made the difference. Sunbeam and Autumn's Decay did most of the work. Autumn's Decay felt like it was a faster casting than Sunbeam. Not sure that was true, but it was the only spell at that level I could successfully cast. I guess Average speed spans quite a difference. Or the RNG goddess was tired of seeing me continually fail.

 

Joe



#10
Lampros

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When playing solo the best course of action is often to avoid a fight. For this specific fight, you can sneak all the all the way to the door if you have 5 stealth. Once the triggered conversation finishes, combat will start and you would need to summon the animat (bronze horn figurine) as bait while you hide, or as I like to think of it, wait for combat to end at the stairs. Closing the door also increases the odds of you being out of line of sight when the animat dies.

If you really wish to take them on, you need Rymgard's mantle and as many scrolls of fan of flame as you can manage. I did this fight naked, by sneaking to the door, triggering combat and then using the door as a choke point while casting fan of flames until I ran out of scrolls. Not sure if being naked help for recovery time, but I managed to kill almost all of them before I ran out of scrolls. I think I only needed to kill one shade or shadow after that barrage.

Edit: during the fight I was not stunned once and did not take any real damage due to the mantle healing me whenever I got hit.

 

So is 5 Stealth generally considered the magic number you need to achieve to get Stealth to work reasonably well?



#11
JerekKruger

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So is 5 Stealth generally considered the magic number you need to achieve to get Stealth to work reasonably well?

 

I think in this case 5 Stealth is simply the amount required to be able to avoid that particular fight. Avoiding other fights will require different amounts.


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#12
bigwillystyle

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In general, Fortitude is the stat to aim for.  But that said, you will see a few nasty disables targeting Will.  The biggest one I've seen is the Paralyze that Cean Glwas use - incidentally, it uses the same icon as the Chanter's paralyze invocation.  I kept getting critted by those big jerks despite have 130 Fortitude and Body Control AND Fenwalkers.  Then I actually bothered to read the combat log and took appropriate steps.


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#13
Lampros

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In general, Fortitude is the stat to aim for.  But that said, you will see a few nasty disables targeting Will.  The biggest one I've seen is the Paralyze that Cean Glwas use - incidentally, it uses the same icon as the Chanter's paralyze invocation.  I kept getting critted by those big jerks despite have 130 Fortitude and Body Control AND Fenwalkers.  Then I actually bothered to read the combat log and took appropriate steps.

 

Hmmm, maybe running with a Cipher and Psychic Backlash is worthwhile after all? ;)



#14
grausch

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Regarding 5 stealth, JerekKruger is right. I think that is the minimum you need to avoid that fight, but I usually have more than that with Boots of Stealth, so I may be mistaken.

For solo runs if you want to avoid fights, stealth is the most important attribute. Wodjee has a full ultimate speedrun and he generally used the minimums for most sections. Review his ultimate run of about 9 hours for ideas. He avoids most fights to accomplish the speedrun, but I did POTD (non-TOI) solo runs with both a wizard and druid and did most of the fights - you need to plan differently, but they are all possible.

A wizard with Arcane Veil can get off a lot of fan of flames before the spectres can hit him. An Adra animat blocking a choke point buys you time to cast fan of flames a couple of times if you are not a wizard. It takes time to get a strategy that works - trust me, I would not drop armor unless I felt I had no other choice. I must have died at least 10 times trying to beat those spectres, but after the first time it becomes a lot easier.

#15
JFutral

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I was seriously considering that Bronze Horn. How good is the Animat it summons?

 

Joe



#16
grausch

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The animat is not that good, but it can provide a distraction allowing you to avoid fights. Early game it can be a life saver.

The wood beetles are great if you combine them with combusting wounds and the shades are probably best because their hits cause the targets to become blind.

Edited by grausch, 13 September 2017 - 01:18 PM.


#17
Dr <3

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I was seriously considering that Bronze Horn. How good is the Animat it summons?

Joe


Just useful for shadows & spectre in caed nua. Not much more




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