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Five man party ? idk... let's discuss


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#41
DexGames

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Well, here is my take on this subject,

At the beginning , because one of the main complain on Pillars Of Eternity was : "Combat Readability".

They chose to reduce that "party members cap" from 6 to 5, to solve that problem.

 

But, after a while, and I think "very recently", Devs came up with that "VFX Opacity" Feature... which, pretty much solves Combat Readability issue on its own, I think they kinda "didn't see that coming". Moreover, now that the Game is fully scheduled down : (Scale wise, Character wise, Monster wise, XP/Level wise, etc...) 

I don't wanna say it's to late to change things back but you know what I mean. It probably is...

 

I'd rather want 6 aswell, I enjoyed Tyranny's 4 a lot, & I'm ok with 5 !

Let's just see how it feels when the Backer BĂȘta comes out.

 

 


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#42
Katarack21

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I know they said at one point that they "aren't married" to the 5 person party and it could change if there was "significant fan opposition". I don't know if that ship has already sailed, though.



#43
smjjames

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The general consensus here on the forum (from what people have talked about anyway) seems to be "We have some concerns, but are willing to see how it goes." However, if the objections become 'significant opposition' during the beta, would it be too late?

 

I have no idea about the reddit community or elsewhere, but it might be a similar "lets wait and see until we get our hands on it" attitude.



#44
MariaDol

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I prefer to play solo on path of the damned...



#45
injurai

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I know they said at one point that they "aren't married" to the 5 person party and it could change if there was "significant fan opposition". I don't know if that ship has already sailed, though.

 

I think that sentiments now means "maybe for Pillars 3 after we've tightened up the gameplay."


Edited by injurai, 17 July 2017 - 11:24 AM.


#46
wolfstriked

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I prefer to play solo on path of the damned...

Pleasure in the game for me stems from trying to min max the whole 6 characters to work as a team as best as possible and with removing the workload for me as much as possible.Sadly I am not able to do that with the companions so I have started running around with mercenaries instead and just take one companion at a time to do their quests.No squishy characters for me so I bump up resolve to max for all as micromanaging dulls gameplay for me.

 

Last night I made a pair of elf brothers (Renfal and Renfak) who adapted to compliment each other in battles.One has high intellect causing long duration  of crippling effects wherein his brother is a high damage,quick firing critical hit build.Really fun to play them.


Edited by wolfstriked, 17 July 2017 - 11:19 AM.

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#47
Sedrefilos

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I know they said at one point that they "aren't married" to the 5 person party and it could change if there was "significant fan opposition". I don't know if that ship has already sailed, though.

I think this was about the multiclass or the split health/stamina system. They said they were gonna stick with the 5 man party early on - even Feargus said it to am intervew. So I think we should not keep our hopes up for a change in that matter.


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#48
MortyTheGobbo

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It's important to remember that at least five classes (fighters et al) will receive more active abilities than they had before. Everyone will also get the universal Empowerment resource, and modals will be available to everyone proficient in a weapon. So there's going to be notably more moving parts and complexity for every given party member.



#49
Quillon

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It's important to remember that at least five classes (fighters et al) will receive more active abilities than they had before.

 

When did they tell this?



#50
Labadal

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I'm still not happy about a 5 man party. I really like having my 6 party members. 5 isn't bad, but 6 characters worked with the first game. Pillars of Eternity had some issues that the guys at Obsidian want to iron out, but the number of combatants you controlled wasn't the problem.

 

They are already lowering the amount of encounters in the game (a good thing), which means that they have a bigger shot at doing more memorable encounters throughout the campaign. With that in mind, I don't see why they couldn't keep a 6 man party.


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#51
Tigranes

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As I said before, switch to five isn't actually likely to massively change how tactically complex the game is, or how your play experience feels in the way some people seem to think. As someone who's played IE games, POE, and many other RPGs ranging from full party to 3-4 man party to solo (and 8-man parties where permitted), the difference between 5 and 6 just isn't a big deal. 

 

Imagine someone said they think 7 is the magic number and it's a travesty POE only had 6. Obviously something changes once you go down to 2 or 3, but up here, it's less significant.

 

The reason a game like FF8 is much less tactically complex is down to the design of the combat and character system, not the 3-man party; it wouldn't be more complex or entertaining with a 6-man party, just more tedious. Hence the question is what they're doing to the rest of the systems, not the party size in itself.

 

Neither is 6 some kind of holy grail, there's a fair number of variance throughout RPG history. 

 

Exception is if you have this magic lineup that you insist on creating every single time you play any party WRPG and it absolutely needs 6 people, but in that case, take the opportunity to try some different compositions and build types. You'll find it's more enjoyable, and, uh, tactical. 


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#52
injurai

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I noticed a big jump in Poe from 5 to 6 because my 6th was Sagani and I really ended up at 7. If I'm packing Maia most of the time I don't think things will feel that different from PoE tbh.



#53
Karkarov

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The general consensus here on the forum (from what people have talked about anyway) seems to be "We have some concerns, but are willing to see how it goes." However, if the objections become 'significant opposition' during the beta, would it be too late?

 

I have no idea about the reddit community or elsewhere, but it might be a similar "lets wait and see until we get our hands on it" attitude.

Considering that this community is probably the most hard core, and therefore niche, community for eternity games it is worthless as a measuring stick of what players want.  That said, the fact that the posts in this thread are 50/50 at worst indicates even the supposed "hard core" aren't that worried.

The cold truth is this, to the majority of people who end up playing Eternity 2 won't even stop to think about 5 versus 6.  Even if they do, they will be highly unlikely to think 6 is somehow inherently better.  I expect some reviewers will mention it if they are big RPG sites, but that's about it.


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#54
smjjames

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I wouldn't say it's completely worthless as a measuring stick. Probably more useful as a litmus dipstick test.


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#55
Gregorovitch

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The general consensus here on the forum (from what people have talked about anyway) seems to be "We have some concerns, but are willing to see how it goes." However, if the objections become 'significant opposition' during the beta, would it be too late?

 

I have no idea about the reddit community or elsewhere, but it might be a similar "lets wait and see until we get our hands on it" attitude.

Considering that this community is probably the most hard core, and therefore niche, community for eternity games it is worthless as a measuring stick of what players want.  That said, the fact that the posts in this thread are 50/50 at worst indicates even the supposed "hard core" aren't that worried.

The cold truth is this, to the majority of people who end up playing Eternity 2 won't even stop to think about 5 versus 6.  Even if they do, they will be highly unlikely to think 6 is somehow inherently better.  I expect some reviewers will mention it if they are big RPG sites, but that's about it.

 

 

The concensus is 50% expressing concern and 50% "I don't know, we'll have to wait and see". There is virtually no direct support for the reduced party size. Nor is there any real arguements made as to why a five charcter party might be better than six.

 

I have three main issues with it:

 

1. I am going to have me (druid), Eder, Aloth and Pallegina so I will only be able to use one other charcter, and that will be whoever the priest is. I am obviously unhappy that the game has already predetermined exactly who is going to be in my party first playthrough.

 

2. I almost always select a specific team and stick with that in any one playthrough, that's just hop I roll. Having only four companions is obviously an unwelcome restriction on using new recruitable NPCs

 

3. The magic of PoE1 for me was the tactical depth involvedd in holding a front line against numbers trying to kill your backline on PotD. Losing a charcter from the party leaves me worried that that depth will degenerate into a simplistic toe-to-toe ability-clicker slug fest a la Tyranny. That would be just....bad.


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#56
Archaven

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I think some will find that having one less party character is being even out with multi-classing. I think having that impression is wrong. Having 1 less character means having 1 lesser power/support. It's quite punishing even you have 6 party characters in POTD. I can't imagine with 5. Plus my biggest issue is that i'm having 1 less slot that i wanted a character to fit in. If let's say you always want the 3 core returning characters to be in the party it means you have 1 slot left to choose for the new party.



#57
smjjames

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To be honest, I have a feeling that if the three companions weren't returning, there wouldn't be quite as much complaint about it. Most of us are likely to play with those three in the first run, which is totally fine, however, in the E3 vid and some others, we've seen Maia be in the only other available slot. So, doing it without a dedicated healer should stil be viable.

 

Besides, you have the multiclassing and Paladins already have some team healing abilities.



#58
Wormerine

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I think some will find that having one less party character is being even out with multi-classing. I think having that impression is wrong. Having 1 less character means having 1 lesser power/support. It's quite punishing even you have 6 party characters in POTD. I can't imagine with 5. Plus my biggest issue is that i'm having 1 less slot that i wanted a character to fit in. If let's say you always want the 3 core returning characters to be in the party it means you have 1 slot left to choose for the new party.

 

Well of course, party of 6 is more powerful than a party of 5. But you won't be played PoE1 with 5 characters but Deadfire which was designed with a party of 5 in mind. Multiclassing will only allow you to bring tools from more classes. I will probably no use multiclassing until my 2nd playthrough, when I have a better idea of how the game works.



#59
Tigranes

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" I am obviously unhappy that the game has already predetermined exactly who is going to be in my party first playthrough."

 

It hasn't, only your mental compulsions.


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#60
Sedrefilos

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A party of 5 is obviously less powerful than a party of 6, which is less powerful than a party of 7, which is less powerful than a party of 8, which is less powerful than aprty of 9, which is...................................................................................................................................., which is less powerful than a standard army.


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