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Politics Episode 8: WWF Edition


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#21
Raithe

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Justice Departments corporate crime watchdog resigns saying Trump makes it impossible to do the job

 


....

One of the Justice Department’s top corporate crime watchdogs has resigned, declaring that she cannot enforce ethics laws against companies while, she asserts, her own bosses in the Trump administration have been engaging in conduct that she said she would never tolerate in corporations.

...



#22
Raithe

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Also, Buzz Aldrin speaking for so many people...

 

ypvxq0ziaivshoma21jl.gif


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#23
KaineParker

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I don't represent my country. I'm not asking you to take responsibility for all the illegal Poles causing problems in my country either, I know that's not you.

I keep hearing things about the Poles that make me think they're the Mexicans of Europe.

They've got hot women and drink a lot?
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#24
Gorth

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The number of Polish immigrants (700000+) was a contributing factor behind the UK's wish for a Brexit (i.e. stop the immigrants!). Indians are the only immigrant group that is more numerous in the UK now and India has some historical ties with the UK from colonial times, being part of the Commonwealth etc. But, I don't live in the UK anymore, so my interest in immigration politics there is mostly just curiosity now. Most likely outcome is, those who have been living there for a while as part of the EU free movement of work force agreements will get some special status allowing them to remain.

#25
Valsuelm

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Oh my God. I have something positive to say about Lyndon Johnson now. Well, actually there were a few positive things about him. Not many, but a few.


There's one gigantically positive thing, though, and I'm not talking about his manhood.

 

I presume you are referring to the Civil  Rights Act. I'd  agree with you there. You know the ironic thing? That was Kennedy's baby, but he did not have the influence with Congress to push it through. Johnson did. The combination of Johnson's pushing and sympathy for Kennedy made all the difference. Had Kennedy not died it may never have passed. Or might not have been as far reaching if it did.

 

Every cloud does have a silver lining.

 

 

The 'Civil rights Act' is an abomination to anyone who truly appreciates freedom.

 

I realize that you and pretty much every American, and possibly even those overseas were taught it's an amazing thing, but did you ever actually read it and objectively think about it for yourself?

 

It's got some really good things in it, I'll say that. But it's also got some downright evil things, packaged in seemingly well intentions and certainly advertised as such.

 

Some of the major problems our nation is currently facing have their origins in this legislation, and the rot is only going to go deeper until the problem is recognized.

Tip: If something is downright taboo to question, if some of the masses kneejerk flipout at the questioning of it as they've been conditioned to do, you should seriously take a deep look at it. And from experience, chances are high that if you do, things are not as they are going to be as you were told they were, and probably even believed they were: at least in part, but possibly even in whole.

Primary sources are an amazing thing. The truth to a lot of things are out there if one bothers to look. And the truth isn't always pretty.


Edited by Valsuelm, 03 July 2017 - 04:38 PM.

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#26
Guard Dog

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Oh my God. I have something positive to say about Lyndon Johnson now. Well, actually there were a few positive things about him. Not many, but a few.


There's one gigantically positive thing, though, and I'm not talking about his manhood.

 

I presume you are referring to the Civil  Rights Act. I'd  agree with you there. You know the ironic thing? That was Kennedy's baby, but he did not have the influence with Congress to push it through. Johnson did. The combination of Johnson's pushing and sympathy for Kennedy made all the difference. Had Kennedy not died it may never have passed. Or might not have been as far reaching if it did.

 

Every cloud does have a silver lining.

 

 

The 'Civil rights Act' is an abomination to anyone who truly appreciates freedom.

 

I realize that you and pretty much every American, and possibly even those overseas were taught it's an amazing thing, but did you ever actually read it and objectively think about it for yourself?

 

It's got some really good things in it, I'll say that. But it's also got some downright evil things, packaged in seemingly well intentions and certainly advertised as such.

 

Some of the major problems our nation is currently facing have their origins in this legislation, and the rot is only going to go deeper until the problem is recognized.

Tip: If something is downright taboo to question, if some of the masses kneejerk flipout at the questioning of it as they've been conditioned to do, you should seriously take a deep look at it. And from experience, chances are high that if you do, things are not as they are going to be as you were told they were, and probably even believed they were: at least in part, but possibly even in whole.

Primary sources are an amazing thing. The truth to a lot of things are out there if one bothers to look. And the truth isn't always pretty.

 

 

I assume you are referring to the expanded powers granted to the Civil Rights Commission in Title 5? Seeing as how it is a government bureaucracy that does whatever the hell it pleases with a lot of authority and minimal oversight  you do have a point. As for the rest of it, it does not restrict freedom. Quite the opposite actually in most cases. It's not OK for a city or State to tell certain people they may not enjoy the public spaces their taxes are paying for. Or that restaurants and other public business could restrict their customers. If it's open to the public it has to be open to all the public. Also desegregating schools was not a bad thing. 



#27
Gromnir

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*eye roll*

 

the problem with the civil rights act(s) is it took at least 99 years longer than it shoulda' for Congress to pass such legislation.  in 1954, SCOTUS lost patience and hijacked legislative prerogative in an attempt to do the right thing.  unfortunately, the Court simple didn't have the means to implement public school bus policies or desegregation plans. an additional decade o' chaos were resulting while Congress waited to act.  

 

what is most terrible 'bout the civil rights act(s) is not its flaws.  the necessary compromises and practical considerations inherent in any such legislation is gonna elicit justified criticism. nope, the terrible truth is Congress were genuine representing the will o' the people in denying basic freedoms to many of her citizens.   near a century o' delay were resulting 'cause America, as a whole, weren't ready or desirous o' national civil rights legislation.  democracy is a wonderful thing until you realize just how much people suck.

 

yeah, numerous states got their act together much earlier than the 1960s.  in 1850, the State supreme court of massachusetts rejected a constitutional plea for school desegregation.  in response, the State legislature of massachusetts desegregated schools... in 1855. almost 100 years before brown v. board, individual US states were doing the right thing. by 1954 almost half o' US states had implemented school desegregation.  'course such a recognition were meaning 'bout 1/2 o' US states were still having state-approved segregation. individual States making positive progress were the ideal method o' change, but nothing Constitutional would preclude the national legislative body from stepping up and doing right. took a civil war and near 100 years for Congress to step up.  national embarrassment.

 

HA! Good Fun!


Edited by Gromnir, 03 July 2017 - 07:04 PM.

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#28
Hurlshot

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Not a huge surprise that Val would call the Civil Right Acts an abomination. But of course historical context is a difficulty for him, and not many would argue against the Civil Rights Acts being immensely important given the setting of 1960's America.

(This is where Val will insert some lazy joke about school teachers.)

#29
Ben No.3

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*eye roll*

the problem with the civil rights act(s) is it took at least 99 years longer than it shoulda' for Congress to pass such legislation. in 1954, SCOTUS lost patience and hijacked legislative prerogative in an attempt to do the right thing. unfortunately, the Court simple didn't have the means to implement public school bus policies or desegregation plans. an additional decade o' chaos were resulting while Congress waited to act.

what is most terrible 'bout the civil rights act(s) is not its flaws. the necessary compromises and practical considerations inherent in any such legislation is gonna elicit justified criticism. nope, the terrible truth is Congress were genuine representing the will o' the people in denying basic freedoms to many of her citizens. near a century o' delay were resulting 'cause America, as a whole, weren't ready or desirous o' national civil rights legislation. democracy is a wonderful thing until you realize just how much people suck.

yeah, numerous states got their act together much earlier than the 1960s. in 1850, the State supreme court of massachusetts rejected a constitutional plea for school desegregation. in response, the State legislature of massachusetts desegregated schools... in 1855. almost 100 years before brown v. board, individual US states were doing the right thing. by 1954 almost half o' US states had implemented school desegregation. 'course such a recognition were meaning 'bout 1/2 o' US states were still having state-approved segregation. individual States making positive progress were the ideal method o' change, but nothing Constitutional would preclude the national legislative body from stepping up and doing right. took a civil war and near 100 years for Congress to step up. national embarrassment.

HA! Good Fun!

I heard ppl say that the civil rights movement was hugely thrown back during the beginning of the Cold War due to many members flatterance with the (far)left, is there any truth to this?

#30
Pidesco

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"flatterance"?



#31
Ben No.3

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"flatterance"?

Not an official alliance with, but notches towards.

#32
Raithe

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Also, since there are those political celebrations happening on the other side of the Atlantic today, to our American friends I have to say, enjoy yourselves and..

 

19756331_10155505168105746_5403468490452


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#33
Guard Dog

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Following Raithe:

 

19601523_1435927829808027_88422195138574

 

Yeah! We showed the British with their Townshend Acts regulations and taxes (yes Hurlshot I know they repealed the stamp act with that. Work with me here). Can you believe it they were taxing us almost 9%. Can you believe that? 9%. Tea, sugar, glass, paper, cotton, hogs, all taxed. Well, we showed them! Now our tax rate is... it's.... wait... what the F--K happened here?

 

Well, at least we get a say in our government now. Wait.... we do don't we?

 

tumblr_mciqebG68L1qfeqwgo1_1280.jpg


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#34
Raithe

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To be fair Guard... the tax thing wasn't the huge deal. It was you colonials wanting to grab more land from the natives we had treaties with. That was another one of those big reasons for getting rid of us. So you didn't have to deal with the treaties protecting them from land grabs.  ;)



#35
Guard Dog

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To be fair Guard... the tax thing wasn't the huge deal. It was you colonials wanting to grab more land from the natives we had treaties with. That was another one of those big reasons for getting rid of us. So you didn't have to deal with the treaties protecting them from land grabs.   ;)

 

Nah, that really didn't become a thing until later. Remember a lot of the indian tribes fought with the French during the war in the 1760's. 

 

On a tangent I was working on an Indian reservation in Minnesota a few years ago and became friendly with the school superintendent. (I was installing Wi-Fi in the schools) We had a conversation once that if the American Revolution had failed the indian nations would have had their own country eventually and been treated better by the British. I laughed at that and told him there is an actual country called India whose people are called also Indians who would disagree with you there. Don't confuse the Britain of today with the one from the 1700's. 


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#36
Raithe

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To be fair Guard... the tax thing wasn't the huge deal. It was you colonials wanting to grab more land from the natives we had treaties with. That was another one of those big reasons for getting rid of us. So you didn't have to deal with the treaties protecting them from land grabs.   ;)

 

Nah, that really didn't become a thing until later. Remember a lot of the indian tribes fought with the French during the war in the 1760's. 

 

On a tangent I was working on an Indian reservation in Minnesota a few years ago and became friendly with the school superintendent. (I was installing Wi-Fi in the schools) We had a conversation once that if the American Revolution had failed the indian nations would have had their own country eventually and been treated better by the British. I laughed at that and told him there is an actual country called India whose people are called also Indians who would disagree with you there. Don't confuse the Britain of today with the one from the 1700's. 

 

 

Possibly yes, possibly no.

 

You should realise that the British government at the time didn't WANT India. That whole thing got stuck on us by the East India company. They kept playing the various Raj off against each other and before you knew it..bang. we were stuck with this addition to the Empire.



#37
Guard Dog

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*eye roll*

the problem with the civil rights act(s) is it took at least 99 years longer than it shoulda' for Congress to pass such legislation. in 1954, SCOTUS lost patience and hijacked legislative prerogative in an attempt to do the right thing. unfortunately, the Court simple didn't have the means to implement public school bus policies or desegregation plans. an additional decade o' chaos were resulting while Congress waited to act.

what is most terrible 'bout the civil rights act(s) is not its flaws. the necessary compromises and practical considerations inherent in any such legislation is gonna elicit justified criticism. nope, the terrible truth is Congress were genuine representing the will o' the people in denying basic freedoms to many of her citizens. near a century o' delay were resulting 'cause America, as a whole, weren't ready or desirous o' national civil rights legislation. democracy is a wonderful thing until you realize just how much people suck.

yeah, numerous states got their act together much earlier than the 1960s. in 1850, the State supreme court of massachusetts rejected a constitutional plea for school desegregation. in response, the State legislature of massachusetts desegregated schools... in 1855. almost 100 years before brown v. board, individual US states were doing the right thing. by 1954 almost half o' US states had implemented school desegregation. 'course such a recognition were meaning 'bout 1/2 o' US states were still having state-approved segregation. individual States making positive progress were the ideal method o' change, but nothing Constitutional would preclude the national legislative body from stepping up and doing right. took a civil war and near 100 years for Congress to step up. national embarrassment.

HA! Good Fun!

I heard ppl say that the civil rights movement was hugely thrown back during the beginning of the Cold War due to many members flatterance with the (far)left, is there any truth to this?

 

 

Well... the FBI was mainly the ones behind this narrative. It's not entirely untrue. It was mostly untrue. Some parts of the Civil Rights movement did have ties to American Communist groups. Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground being the most prominent example. The Black Panthers may or may not. I'm not sure. I've read evidence both ways. But the main force of the Civil Rights movement led by Martin Luther king the accusation is totally false. But yes it was still made as a way to undermine it.  How much of an effect that had is debatable. They didn't call it The Red Scare for nothing.



#38
Gromnir

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am knowing this is an unpopular pov, but is our contention the Court were the biggest single obstacle to the civil rights movement. school segregation increased following brown v. board, and so too did race violence. the rate o' voluntary state desegregation were increasing in the south before 1950.  unfortunate, in many ways the south ain't never quite recovered from the civil war.  a yankee Court in washington dc creating a largely anti-southern policy and and seeming overturning the democratic process? look up the history o' george wallace for some perspective.  during wallace's first run for governor, he were endorsed by the naacp.  the Court battles led to greater polarization o' southerners.  former moderates were forced to pick sides. there were no moderates after 1954.  am not saying the Court were the only cause o' polarization, and as noted 'bove, Congress were genuine most at fault for the underlying problems, but the Court added the most fuel to the fire.

 

europeans is often misled and confused by the labels o' our political parties. when americans speak o' liberal and conservative, they mean something much different than is typical in european political arena.  our liberals and conservatives has been for many decades extreme centrist.  one reason why europeans were so enamored with obama before he were electected were 'cause he talked like a european socialist. the reality o' obama were a surprise to many.  the US political battlefield has been almost comical centrist since the mid-late 1960s... well, at least until midway through obama's second term.

 

conspiracy nonsense were almost as popular during the 50s and 60s as it is today. polarization and social unrest weren't cause o' alien intervention or shadow wars or fluoride in the water. civil right era polarization were the result o' economic and societal factors made worse by a well-intentioned Court and a handful o' political extremists.  

 

today is different.  is not the Court but the POTUS (past and current) who is most obvious responsible for polarization.  under obama and trump, americans has become increasing divided, and tweet storms and alternative facts ain't helping.  'course just as Congress were ultimate to blame for not passing the civil rights act(s) earlier, the real cause o' American polarization today is same as it were in the 1950s. Congress allowed the white middle class to become at least subjective disenfranchised, and while obama oversaw an economic recovery which ironic left african americans and other economic disadvantaged groups behind, Congress were ultimate to blame for doing nothing to correct the obvious problems resulting from increased income disparity.  

 

reasoned discourse and debate don't take place at the fringes.  the extreme left and right is peopled by true-believers and they is immune to change.  not look much further than this board to see how obtuse the folks at the the more extreme ends o' the political spectrum can be. 

 

HA! Good Fun!



#39
Valsuelm

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Not a huge surprise that Val would call the Civil Right Acts an abomination. But of course historical context is a difficulty for him, and not many would argue against the Civil Rights Acts being immensely important given the setting of 1960's America.

(This is where Val will insert some lazy joke about school teachers.)

 

I challenge you to find a single instance of me making a joke about school teachers anywhere on this board.

 

Historical context is far from lost on me, sadly delusion isn't lost on you. Many have and did argue. In modern times those arguments are largely whitewashed and/or lost on the populace at large.


Edited by Valsuelm, 04 July 2017 - 08:47 AM.


#40
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Hmm, my apologies, you are right. Although I did see a lot of posts where someone assumed something about you and you told them they were wrong. So I guess you are just tragically misunderstood?






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