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My Problem with the Ethik Nôl and Sacrificial Bloodlines (Spoilers)


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#1
Mygaffer

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When you go to the Blood Sands and read the lore written upon their tablets as part of Hiravias' personal quest one of the things the Ethik Nôl make a point of telling you multiple times is that all the sacrifices give themselves up willingly. That's why it isn't simply murder, at least according to their philosophy.

 

But then at Simoc's request I bring them an infant. Cute, quiet, strong of soul. This baby does not, nor cannot consent to be sacrificed.

 

So are the Ethik Nôl lying bastards who don't really give a **** about how willing or not a sacrifice is, or was this something of an oversight when the quest was written?

 

Has anyone else thought about this?

 

Oh and GM takes off into the night with any items she has equipped if you give the baby to Keeper Wrdha.



#2
FlintlockJazz

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When you go to the Blood Sands and read the lore written upon their tablets as part of Hiravias' personal quest one of the things the Ethik Nôl make a point of telling you multiple times is that all the sacrifices give themselves up willingly. That's why it isn't simply murder, at least according to their philosophy.

 

But then at Simoc's request I bring them an infant. Cute, quiet, strong of soul. This baby does not, nor cannot consent to be sacrificed.

 

So are the Ethik Nôl lying bastards who don't really give a **** about how willing or not a sacrifice is, or was this something of an oversight when the quest was written?

 

Has anyone else thought about this?

 

Oh and GM takes off into the night with any items she has equipped if you give the baby to Keeper Wrdha.

I've never taken the baby to be sacrificed personally, so I don't know if they give any reasons or not.  It could be that they allow 'legal guardians' such as parents or wards to make the choice for them, though that then raises the question of whether they have a similar situation as in the Witcher 3 where parents would send unwanted children down the path of treats when they were short of food. 

 

My personal opinion is that the Ethik Nol are corrupt, they use the sacrifices to prolong their own lives and it is implied to me that for all their talk of give and take they take a lot more than they give.  Willing sacrifices are easier to get hold of since you don't have the society coming for you, and a willing sacrifice is probably more effective since they give of themselves more, but I can see them taking unwilling sacrifices if it benefits them especially if coin or power is involved.  My last character considered it a service to Twin Elms to purge them of the taint of Ethik Nol.



#3
Messier-31

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Read the "Blood register" short-story; them Ethik Nol are just full of s**t.



#4
rheingold

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I'm not fond of simplistic good v evil responses normally, but generally people who engage in human sacrifice aren't nice people...
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#5
Lotti Fuehrscheim

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I'm not fond of simplistic good v evil responses normally, but generally people who engage in human sacrifice aren't nice people...

 

It seems to have been pretty common in Bronze and Iron Age Europe, testified by many moor mummies.

Just 15 km South of where I live a 16 year old girl has been found that was sacrificed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yde_Girl

Meisje_van_Yde%2C_Drents_Museum%2C_N1897

 

So most of the people of Western European descent have ancestors that practised human sacrifices.

 

I am not prepared to assume that they were all evil people.


Edited by Lotti Fuehrscheim, 28 June 2017 - 03:11 PM.


#6
FlintlockJazz

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I'm not fond of simplistic good v evil responses normally, but generally people who engage in human sacrifice aren't nice people...

 

It seems to have been pretty common in Bronze and Iron Age Europe, testified by many moor mummies.

Just 15 km South of where I live a 16 year old girl has been found that was sacrificed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yde_Girl

Meisje_van_Yde%2C_Drents_Museum%2C_N1897

 

So most of the people of Western European descent have ancestors that practised human sacrifices.

 

I am not prepared to assume that they were all evil people.

 

You might not be prepared but that doesn't make it untrue.

 

Joking aside, most would not 'practice' human sacrifice, it would be the priests who would use it as a method of control who did, the main population probably did not have much of a choice.  Plus, the person you quoted did not say they were evil, he said he was not fond of good/evil RESPONSES, his opinion of people who performed sacrifices is actually "they tend not to be very nice people", which is true and most people back then were probably not nice people.



#7
Lotti Fuehrscheim

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Joking aside, most would not 'practice' human sacrifice, it would be the priests who would use it as a method of control who did, the main population probably did not have much of a choice.

 

That is pure speculation, as we really don't know anything about their spiritual life.

 

But I very much doubt that there was a dedicated priest class in these societies, that were living scattered in very small, often single farm, settlements.



#8
rheingold

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I'm not fond of simplistic good v evil responses normally, but generally people who engage in human sacrifice aren't nice people...

 
It seems to have been pretty common in Bronze and Iron Age Europe, testified by many moor mummies.
Just 15 km South of where I live a 16 year old girl has been found that was sacrificed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yde_Girl
Meisje_van_Yde%2C_Drents_Museum%2C_N1897
 
So most of the people of Western European descent have ancestors that practised human sacrifices.
 
I am not prepared to assume that they were all evil people.
Just interested, what would your definition of evil be, if not human sacrifice?

#9
Lotti Fuehrscheim

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I'm not fond of simplistic good v evil responses normally, but generally people who engage in human sacrifice aren't nice people...

 
It seems to have been pretty common in Bronze and Iron Age Europe, testified by many moor mummies.
Just 15 km South of where I live a 16 year old girl has been found that was sacrificed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yde_Girl
Meisje_van_Yde%2C_Drents_Museum%2C_N1897
 
So most of the people of Western European descent have ancestors that practised human sacrifices.
 
I am not prepared to assume that they were all evil people.
Just interested, what would your definition of evil be, if not human sacrifice?

 

 

Evil is in the intention. Human sacrifices may have had good intentions. A Sacrifice is giving up something of worth.

 

What is evil: sacrifice of a dear family member or sacrifice of a captured neighbour?



#10
rheingold

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I'd be prepared to suggest that any human sacrifice is evil regardless of wether it's a neighbour or family member.
BTW, I'm also really glad I don't have you as a neighbour.

#11
scythesong

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Despite the Ethik Nôl's core philosophy many of their leaders are still pretty power-hungry. It is really so surprising that they'd jump at the chance to curry favor with a powerful leader? Even a "good" Glanfathan would know better than to completely ignore such an opportunity, you need to up your game if you want to survive in that kind of primal society.

 

Intent is not the only measuring stick for defining good/evil. Some of the most terrible acts in history were made by people who were convinced they were doing the "right thing".



#12
CottonWolf

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Yeah, the Ethik Nôl's are definitely corrupt. They're not necessarily wrong when viewed through the lens of the existence of souls. Galawain's ending is basically exactly what the Ethik Nôl do. The issue is clearly consent. If I lived in that universe and people consented to being sacrificed in the with the full knowledge that it would work, I don't think I'd have an issue with it.






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