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Expansion Hopes: Sequential, not Parallel (for the Most Part)

expansion pacing dlc

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#41
Sedrefilos

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I played them after both were out. And after some time too. The latter because of financial problems. But I wouldn't have played part 1 alone anyway. Sounded pointless to me.



#42
JerekKruger

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I played through the White March part I a few times before part II came out. 


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#43
Wormerine

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Me, too. Multiple times.
I also like it very much that the expansions are exactly that: expansions of the main game, not a sequel. It gives you more items and abilities and talents which you can use in the whole big game and not only in short sequels. I would be really sad if Obsidian changed their approach to expansions.

 
Now, that is a good point indeed.
 
Although, do those make the game (after the expansion is played) easier since the balancing was done before the expansion? Unless, of course, there is scaling (yuck!). ☺

Yes, they do wreck the late game if you won't apply content scaling. That's the unfortunate trade off.

#44
Boeroer

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Late game difficulty was laughable even in the original game without expansions. That has nothing to do with the WM I and II. Of course Thaos is even more laughable at lvl 16 than he is at lvl 12 - but if you scale up it's nearly the same level of lol.

There are enough encounters in WM I and II that are very difficult even without scaling. But most "trashmob" fights are still supereasy compared to the beginning of the game where most fights are kind of tough (PotD).

All in all there's not enough (or barely enough) XP in the early game and way too much in the mid game - you will hit lvl 12 (or 14 or 16) very early as a completionist.

But all in all: yes, it's difficult to rebalance the main game if you slide some expansions in. But I think it's doable. The replay value is so much better if you expand the main game instead of adding a rather short sequel. I like to to builds, so it's obvious why I like the current approach better.

Edited by Boeroer, 05 July 2017 - 05:18 AM.

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#45
Blutwurstritter

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Late game difficulty was laughable even in the original game without expansions. That has nothing to do with the WM I and II. Of course Thaos is even more laughable at lvl 16 than he is at lvl 12 - but if you scale up it's nearly the same level of lol.

There are enough encounters in WM I and II that are very difficult even without scaling. But most "trashmob" fights are still supereasy compared to the beginning of the game where most fights are kind of tough (PotD).

All in all there's not enough (or barely enough) XP in the early game and way too much in the mid game - you will hit lvl 12 (or 14 or 16) very early as a completionist.

But all in all: yes, it's difficult to rebalance the main game if you slide some expansions in. But I think it's doable. The replay value is so much better if you expand the main game instead of adding a rather short sequel. I like to to builds, so it's obvious why I like the current approach better.

 

I guess it depends what your preference is. I finished PoE 3 times before the White March was released and my desire to replay it was satisfied. The additional story content was mostly disconnected from the rest of the game and could have been put after the main story line. This would have resolved most of the problems regarding balance and would have made it accessible to everyone who finished the game once at leisure.

The added replay value is not bound to the "position" of the DLC in the game but to the content. Usually new talents and abilities or classes also get added to the main game even in the case of a sequential DLC so the replay value  increases likewise. I would say that  this is rather a matter of added content in general. It does not depend on the moment when the quests take place in the game. It is obvious that a short DLC adds less replay value compared to an extensive expansion but a sequential DLC can be substantial while an in between DLC can be short. 

The White March DLC did not fit well into the game in my opinion and was rather out of place, although the content itself was good. 



#46
DexGames

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Personally, I'd back an additionnal FIG Side-Campaign for Deadfire,

 

if the Stretch Goals are only based on adding levels to a New Mega-Dungeon like the previous game lol.

fifteen Levels are not enough, I want MOAR ! 


Edited by DexGames, 09 July 2017 - 04:58 PM.

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#47
injurai

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There won't be any mega-dungeon like caed nua in Deadfire.



#48
DexGames

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There won't be any mega-dungeon like caed nua in Deadfire.

 

That's specificaly why I said what I've said, because I want one in Deadfire.  :yes:



#49
injurai

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I thought that you thought we were getting another one, you just wanted it to be even longer.

 

I did really like the mega dungeon. I never found it too long because you could always come back to it, and the short cuts really helped. I just liked the idea that it was this really vast and deep place. Kind of reminded me of Diablo 1. Like having Diablo within Pillars.

 

I'm sort of expecting we get an equal amount of content spread out over some sort of island hope treasure find.


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#50
Sedrefilos

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I thought that you thought we were getting another one, you just wanted it to be even longer.

 

I did really like the mega dungeon. I never found it too long because you could always come back to it, and the short cuts really helped. I just liked the idea that it was this really vast and deep place. Kind of reminded me of Diablo 1. Like having Diablo within Pillars.

 

I'm sort of expecting we get an equal amount of content spread out over some sort of island hope treasure find.

Isn't Fulvano's voyage the new Endless Paths?


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#51
Wormerine

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Well, I for one didn't enjoy Endless Paths that much. The idea was cool, the story of the place was cool but gameplay wise it felt like a filler. I expected it to pose unique challenges, maybe pushing specific game mechanics to their limit (scripted interactions, combat, stealth/traps, dialogue etc.) what we got was a lengthy dungeon which seemed to do completely run out of steam (the final levels are so small I imagine they just run out of ideas or time) filled with trash mob from the surface. It is something which to me was a fulfilment of kickstarter promise, but otherwise should have been scrapped (with entire caed nua) and resources relocated elsewhere.

I am looking forward to Fulvano's Voyage though and I hope for a more involving experience.

#52
Messier-31

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(the final levels are so small I imagine they just run out of ideas or time)

 

Ditto.

 

Endless Paths did nothing to get me more interested while descending. I'm somewhat a completionist, so I clear that dungeon anyway, but the whole thing is a place that got its lore and story made up quick and very late in the development.



#53
JerekKruger

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Endless Paths did nothing to get me more interested while descending. I'm somewhat a completionist, so I clear that dungeon anyway, but the whole thing is a place that got its lore and story made up quick and very late in the development.

 

That's my feeling as well. Had they made the whole thing five or six floors deep I suspect it would have been a better dungeon overall. I think the route they took with Fulvano's Journey will result in better (less filler) content.



#54
Sedrefilos

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Endless Paths was good. Some floors were more interesting than others. On the other hand, you had Redric's Hold, a masterpiece in dungeon design, so after you've completed that one everything else felt kinda less impressive that it would have been if RH was not there, imo.

White March dungeons were all great though.


Edited by Sedrefilos, 10 July 2017 - 07:11 AM.

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#55
smjjames

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I think going with the Fulvano's Voyage idea was and is better because then they can devote an entire island as one 'level' and not a small dungeon for each level, and they seem to have devoted one large island to at least four parts of it.



#56
injurai

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I wonder if we will progress through the voyage linearly or bound back and forth like fulvano?



#57
Sedrefilos

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The only "problem" with Fulvano's Voyage is that it's not as aw inspiring as the Endless Paths was. I mean it's kinda lame when you look at it, going back and forth, "discovering" inns and tavers in main islands and all that. It's like Obsidian is trolling us lol. Of course at the end they might all be great locations/dungeons, better that the Endless Paths. I hope so!



#58
smjjames

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Only the first one seems to be a 'main island', and hopefully there are a lot of good items. The fact that the first one doubles as the hone base for the Principi faction will certainly increase the content for that one.



#59
injurai

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For all we know the whole island sequence is subject to change.



#60
Messier-31

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One should not compare Endless Paths to the Fulvano islands in terms other than backer related unlocking of more content.


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