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Expansion Hopes: Sequential, not Parallel (for the Most Part)

expansion pacing dlc

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#21
Wormerine

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Yeah, really hope the expansion happens at the end rather than the middle. WM and Pillars were excellent - on their own. Put together they made no sense. There simply was no reason for the Watcher to go to WM.

 
If you consider being asked for help to not be a reason, or just lack any desire for adventure, then I suppose that is true.

Sure, but taking a trip to White March, while you are going mad doesn't feel very sensible.
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#22
blotter

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Sure, but taking a trip to White March, while you are going mad doesn't feel very sensible.

 

There actually is a reason to go there tied to the main plot: the Steward mentions having heard disturbing reports of the Leaden Key's movements in the area, suggesting that they have an interest in the ruins as they have in others throughout the game. In that sense, the Watcher's trip to Stalwart isn't much different from their trip to Dyrford, with both being little more than transit points en route to the far more interesting ruins that are nearby, even if the lead you get to head over to Clîaban Rilag is significantly more compelling given its source and Lady Webb's interest. The main problem that I see is that the Leaden Key angle potentially ceases to work as a motivator once you learn that their known agents in the area are already dead, though you could argue that the Watcher might remain interested in investigating the ruins that drew them there.



#23
Messier-31

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Sure, but taking a trip to White March, while you are going mad doesn't feel very sensible.

 

There actually is a reason to go there tied to the main plot: the Steward mentions having heard disturbing reports of the Leaden Key's movements in the area, suggesting that they have an interest in the ruins as they have in others throughout the game. In that sense, the Watcher's trip to Stalwart isn't much different from their trip to Dyrford, with both being little more than transit points en route to the far more interesting ruins that are nearby, even if the lead you get to head over to Clîaban Rilag is significantly more compelling given its source and Lady Webb's interest. The main problem that I see is that the Leaden Key angle potentially ceases to work as a motivator once you learn that their known agents in the area are already dead, though you could argue that the Watcher might remain interested in investigating the ruins that drew them there.

 

 

True dat. The Leaden Key in the White March are kinda McGuffin.



#24
FlintlockJazz

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A tribute to Tales of the Sword Coast isn't a very good reason, since ToSC was kind of bad. And part of it was suddenly yanking you away from the main plot to entirely different places.

 

Didn't say it was a good idea to do! ;)



#25
Wormerine

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Sure, but taking a trip to White March, while you are going mad doesn't feel very sensible.

 
There actually is a reason to go there tied to the main plot: the Steward mentions having heard disturbing reports of the Leaden Key's movements in the area, suggesting that they have an interest in the ruins as they have in others throughout the game. In that sense, the Watcher's trip to Stalwart isn't much different from their trip to Dyrford, with both being little more than transit points en route to the far more interesting ruins that are nearby, even if the lead you get to head over to Clîaban Rilag is significantly more compelling given its source and Lady Webb's interest. The main problem that I see is that the Leaden Key angle potentially ceases to work as a motivator once you learn that their known agents in the area are already dead, though you could argue that the Watcher might remain interested in investigating the ruins that drew them there.

Sure, that is all true. I guess, I didn't really express my mind well as it is not the lack of explanation that bothers me. I think it is just how separate the expansion feels from the base game. New map, kinda different design (more packed and focused).

I feel like it should be more closely tied to the game, if it is going to be a parallel expension. Heart of Stone for Witcher 3 works well, as it starts as a regular quests, happens on the same world map as main game, and many of the quests will take you back to Novigrad. You can do expansion and base game at the same time. And story wise there is no conflict there. Blood&Wine on the other hand, I will always do after the main game is completed. It is a much more separate adventure and abandonig the main quest would be odd, even if the invitation Geralt gets doesn't leave much space for turning down.

To conclude: I won't mind a pararell expansion for Deadfire, if it is I more intertwined with the base game. However, if it is a more standalone adventure, I would prefer for it to be its own thing.
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#26
blotter

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 Sure, that is all true. I guess, I didn't really express my mind well as it is not the lack of explanation that bothers me. I think it is just how separate the expansion feels from the base game. New map, kinda different design (more packed and focused). 

I feel like it should be more closely tied to the game, if it is going to be a parallel expension.

 

Yeah, I agree that it tends to be less jarring when such content clings more closely to the base. Especially in games like Pillars 1 and 2, where the stakes for resolving the plot are saving your sanity in the first game and, quite possibly, what's left of your soul in the second, it seems extremely important to integrate added content into the overarching story, so I also hope that they do so for Deadfire if they go the parallel expansion route. 

 

That being said, I'd still hope for an expansion taking place after the events of the main game, possibly as an epilogue of sorts. Whatever plans they may or may not have for Pillars 3, Pillars 2 plus any expansions should probably mark the end of the Watcher's story; I'm not keen to see any further soul-draining shenanigans to justify the Watcher's involvement in the stories for any other games down the line.


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#27
Baltic

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The thing that makes the White March feel weird from a narrative standpoint is how far away it is. Investigating a Leaden Key lead makes sense after Never Far From the Queen, but it a lot further away that the other leads given. Mechanically it only takes one day to get there, but the way it's talked about it game suggests it's further away that that.
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#28
Messier-31

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The thing that makes the White March feel weird from a narrative standpoint is how far away it is. Investigating a Leaden Key lead makes sense after Never Far From the Queen, but it a lot further away that the other leads given. Mechanically it only takes one day to get there, but the way it's talked about it game suggests it's further away that that.

 

One glimpse on the Eastern Reach map says it all.



#29
JerekKruger

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Honestly, the whole thing about the White March being a Leaden Key lead is fairly weakly done to my mind. It felt tacked on after the content was written in order to give the player a reason to go, but it didn't feel well integrated to the main story. Luckily the White March itself is great so I can forgive this.

 

I'd definitely prefer a sequential expansion in Deadfire though.


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#30
Sedrefilos

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The main lead is just an excuse to go explore White March. Other than that the expansion has great locations, dungeons, quests and of course main plot. Sometimes you need to not give a dime about why you're in a place, in a video game, and just enjoy the adventure.


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#31
Wormerine

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The main lead is just an excuse to go explore White March. Other than that the expansion has great locations, dungeons, quests and of course main plot. Sometimes you need to not give a dime about why you're in a place, in a video game, and just enjoy the adventure.

No one says that WM shouldn't exist because it has continuity issues:-). Discussing how it could be better implimented doesn't decrease its current value.


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#32
JerekKruger

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Sometimes you need to not give a dime about why you're in a place, in a video game, and just enjoy the adventure.

 

Oh I totally agree. I never even considered the problem of Baldur's Gate 2's motivation until I read about it online years after finishing the game several times. I simply accepted that I was expected to want to rescue Imoen/unlock my powers and rolled with it. I also thoroughly enjoyed the White March despite the feeling that the Leaden Key hook was pretty weak.

 

That said, the writers should endeavour to make such hooks as strong as they can. This isn't meant as a criticism of the writers for the White March, I thought it was full of excellently written content, I'm just saying that if it were possible to tie the expansion content in better that would be good.


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#33
Wormerine

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Sometimes you need to not give a dime about why you're in a place, in a video game, and just enjoy the adventure.

 

Oh I totally agree. I never even considered the problem of Baldur's Gate 2's motivation until I read about it online years after finishing the game several times. I simply accepted that I was expected to want to rescue Imoen/unlock my powers and rolled with it. I also thoroughly enjoyed the White March despite the feeling that the Leaden Key hook was pretty weak.

 

That said, the writers should endeavour to make such hooks as strong as they can. This isn't meant as a criticism of the writers for the White March, I thought it was full of excellently written content, I'm just saying that if it were possible to tie the expansion content in better that would be good.

 

BG2 used to be my holy grail of gaming for many years but I happily admit I completely forgot Imoen existed on my first playthrough. The side content was just soo good:-).


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#34
PrimeHydra

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BG2 used to be my holy grail of gaming for many years but I happily admit I completely forgot Imoen existed on my first playthrough. The side content was just soo good:-).

 

It's still mine. Much as I love Pillars, and Divinity: Original Sin, nothing has surpassed BG2 for me. What did it for you? Because I want to play it!


Edited by PrimeHydra, 30 June 2017 - 07:58 AM.


#35
Blutwurstritter

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I especially disliked the way the dlc's were released. Did anyone actually play the White March 1 when it was released without the second part ? This made absolutely no sense to me. For a sequential expansion i could live with it since you can't screw the balance by following the main story while your waiting for the second part but in the case of the white march it made no sense.  

When i play an expansion or dlc i want to enjoy it like it was supposed to be by design but that includes for the White March restarting the game and redoing a large amount of the content i already know. A sequential expansion allows me to play only the new content without repetitions. I hope they take this route if they add story dlc's,  unless they find a way to include it without screwing balance. 



#36
Wormerine

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BG2 used to be my holy grail of gaming for many years but I happily admit I completely forgot Imoen existed on my first playthrough. The side content was just soo good:-).

 
It's still mine. Much as I love Pillars, and Divinity: Original Sin, nothing has surpassed BG2 for me. What did it for you? Because I want to play it!

Witcher3 is my new BG2. Quite different in style, but to me it shares many important similarities - limited role playing in favour of tight story and characters, huge world which just keeps on giving, insanely ambitious project that somehow succeeded. It gave me the sense of wonder and discovery I haven't felt in years. I am a witcher fan both books, and previous games so I might be bias. I also played through it only once - we will see if it will survive multiple playthoughs (limited gameplay options might make replaying it boring)

Though more importantly, my taste has changed. While I still adore lengthy RPG and anything Infinity-Engine-like will get my attention, I do prefer shorter and more focused games these days. Looking forward to anything done by Klei or Supergiant. I do need to go back to BG one of these days. Didn't play it for years.
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#37
rjshae

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n/m


Edited by rjshae, 04 July 2017 - 10:12 AM.


#38
Katarack21

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I especially disliked the way the dlc's were released. Did anyone actually play the White March 1 when it was released without the second part ?

*raises hand*


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#39
Boeroer

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Me, too. Multiple times.

I also like it very much that the expansions are exactly that: expansions of the main game, not a sequel. It gives you more items and abilities and talents which you can use in the whole big game and not only in short sequels. I would be really sad if Obsidian changed their approach to expansions.
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#40
kierun

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Me, too. Multiple times.

I also like it very much that the expansions are exactly that: expansions of the main game, not a sequel. It gives you more items and abilities and talents which you can use in the whole big game and not only in short sequels. I would be really sad if Obsidian changed their approach to expansions.

 

Now, that is a good point indeed.

 

Although, do those make the game (after the expansion is played) easier since the balancing was done before the expansion? Unless, of course, there is scaling (yuck!). ☺


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