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Help with optimal frontline late game itemization/build


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#21
Boeroer

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Besides that 0 recovery doesn't mean max attack speed. It's just a big step towards that goal. There's also the attack animation. It might be shorter than the normal recovery, but you only can influence it via DEX. I won't argue what is the best DEX value - I think this highly depends on your playstyle and what characters you use.
I, for myself, don't usually build high DEX guys but prefer MIG, PER and INT for most of my characters.

#22
Raven Darkholme

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@Boroer

I meant 10 dex and 0 recovery.

That's pretty close to max attack speed, my cipher in my trio party just shred whatever came close to her and built focus much faster than she could burn it.

 

@Belfaldurnik

 

My earlier comment was directed at Aerinqq who posted about having to put points into too many attributes and not wanting to drop Con too low because of it.

Your attack speed without item bonuses at 10 and 18 is not that different it's nice to have 18 dex if you can spare the points or have a char who relies on high dex more than on other attributes but going with 10 is alright for most chars and my comment about maxing out attack speed with 10 dex was just to show that higher dex than 10 doesn't do too much for that unless you use a very slow weapon.


Edited by Raven Darkholme, 19 May 2017 - 07:19 AM.


#23
Aerinqq

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You guys are awesome! Thx so much for the detailed answers!

 

So I will respec the paladin and will use small shield+some one handed weapon (the ones that Boeroer and Max mentioned (Shame or Glory / Strike Hard / The Vile Loner's Lance /  Drawn in Spring). Or maybe Unlaboured Blade or Vent Pick? How much res and con can I dump with the paladin to still be able to survive? What would be a good stat distribution? Obviously high might, high int, what about the rest? I am playing on 3.0 patch so the Unblaboured blade wasnt nerfed, right?

 

I will respec the fighter to use 2hander. Should I keep high int with the fighter, or just dump it completely? I mean the high int is useful for prolonged knockdowns, but other than that, is there actually anything else? Wouldnt it be better to just dump the int completely so I can max dex and per, or what stat distribution would be ideal? Obviously dump res, as I am gonna use Sanguine plate with him. Also, Tidefall vs. Hours of Rumbaldt vs. Blade of the Endless paths?

 

Barbarian is pretty clear now, seems to be specced optimally, will respec and lower the dex once I get the HoF.

 

thanks again


Edited by Aerinqq, 19 May 2017 - 08:02 AM.

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#24
MaxQuest

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So I will respec the paladin and will use small shield+some one handed weapon (the ones that Boeroer and Max mentioned (Shame or Glory / Strike Hard / The Vile Loner's Lance /  Drawn in Spring). Or maybe Unlaboured Blade or Vent Pick? How much res and con can I dump with the paladin to still be able to survive? What would be a good stat distribution? Obviously high might, high int, what about the rest? I am playing on 3.0 patch so the Unblaboured blade wasnt nerfed, right?

Unlabored Blade might work, but not on a pure tank paladin. Because besides high MIG, you would need high DEX to increase it's proc-per-minute. Not to mention that you would need higher PER, in order to remove grazes and misses, and try to avoid hitting creatures with high deflection altogether.

Pure tank paladin (with sup weapon): 18/14/6/6/18/16 (early game) or 18/16/6/10/18/10 (late game)
Offtank paladin (with unlaboured blade): 18/8/18/14/12/8
 
Tbh, I would go for a tank route, specifically darcozzi tank-support with 8 in survival for health modifier and rest in lore, for scrolls. Wild Orlan.
 

I will respec the fighter to use 2hander. Should I keep high int with the fighter, or just dump it completely?

Depends on the weapon :)
 

Also, Tidefall vs. Hours of Rumbaldt vs. Blade of the Endless paths?

All 3 choices are good, but they ask for different stat distribution:
- Tidefall - max MIG as high as you can. Butdump INT, because of how wounding works. Although this mean there is little incentive to learn knockdown.
- Hours of Rumbaldt - to reliably proc the Overbearing and benefit from Annihilation you need high effective accuracy, and high PER + darcozzi paladin will help you at that. Plus you might want above average INT, which will benefit your prones and knockdowns.
- Blade of the Endless paths - doesn't really need high PER, as critting will dilute the benefit from DR bypass. Max MIG and DEX. Keep average PER.

So in the end I think the following are optimal:
- Tidefall: 20/14/18/15/3/8 (without knockdown / self buffs); v2: 20/12/18/10/10/8 (with knockdown / self buffs)
- Hours of Rumbaldt: 16/9/15/15/15/8
- BotEP: 18/12/18/10/12/8

For difficulties below PotD you can additionally lower RES, by 2-5 points.

Edit: updated stats.

Edited by MaxQuest, 19 May 2017 - 09:11 AM.

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#25
Raven Darkholme

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I think Hours of Rumbaldt is the best choice for the fighter as you don't want to lose Knockdown and since Fighter already has high starting Acc, going for crit should not be a prob at all.


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#26
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I would also use Rumbalt and even push INT to the max. High INT is so awesome with Constant Recovery, Disciplined Barrage and crits with Knockdown. Also the prones from Rumbalt will last long. I would also use Bonus Knockdown and Clear Out. Clear Out is supergood with high INT but bad with mediocre or low INT. Keep it for the tough fights and it can really make a difference.
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#27
MaxQuest

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Agreed, Rumbaldt looks like a better choice overall. Plus the party has access to Painful Interdiction, so it will be easier to 'confirm' the overbearing roll.

Tidefall can be carried in the second weapon set through, and used vs high-dr/high-fort enemies (mainly eyeless and animats).
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#28
Aerinqq

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Perfect, thanks again guys!

little Off topic: I think I will try to enable the PoTD and see if its doable. Its my first playthrough, so not sure if I should play PoTD, but since I am min-maxing I dont want to steam roll through everything without even microing (which is kinda happening right now). I kinda dont like using scrolls/food though, so if its necessary for PoTD, I should prolly play on hard. I am lvl 9, I wanted to start WM1 with scaling enabled, should I wait on higher lvl, enter it without scaling or just go for it? I am 1 main quest off finishing ACT II atm.


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#29
Raven Darkholme

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If you feel like you're steamrolling PotD is no problem.

Scaling might be too much but a well played full party handles it pretty well and even solo chars can do it. :p



#30
Aerinqq

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If you feel like you're steamrolling PotD is no problem.

Scaling might be too much but a well played full party handles it pretty well and even solo chars can do it. :p

Do you think PoTD is doable without scrolls, potions and food without pulling all my hair out? Not solo, talking about 6 man min-maxed party, of course. I just dont like using the consumables, as for most of the encounters you dont know if its going to be just random easy one or actually a very though one. I mean getting into every encounter without this knowledge, without consumables, just to find out after few minutes that ure fighting a lost battle so u gotta load all the time so u can use the consumables before that fight doesnt sound like fun to me xD



#31
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It's doable you have a priest.

Just use stuff like protection from fear vs dragons and vampyres and protection from charm vs the latter.

A solo char who uses consumables still has much less buffs than a party without consumables.



#32
Belfaldurnik

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Consumables are not needed for PotD. Food and/or drugs can be very helpful against the dragons and other boss-like enemies, however. And keeping a few potions and scrolls in your quick item slots can be a good idea for other fights, too.



#33
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If you feel that it's difficult at the beginning: that's OK. Act I is the hardest part. After that it gets easier and easier (with a few bumps).

#34
Aerinqq

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Also wanted to ask, when using The Hours of Rumbaldt, are there any good specific enchantments? I assume it would be better to use the Accurate 3 version rather than exceptional, but what about lash and slaying enchantments? Just go Kith slaying and corrosive, or something else? I guess its also beneficial not to use only 1 type of lash on all party members and rather have a mixture of 2-3 and also while dual wielding not use the same one on each weapon?


Edited by Aerinqq, 20 May 2017 - 06:47 AM.


#35
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If you want to use Rumbalt for the whole game I would not put any slaying enchantment on it but aim for the highest quality enchantment possible. Don't remember if it's possible to put legendary + lash on it, but I guess. Lash is a no brainer of course. And once you can have superb I would put it on and replace Accurate III.
Only if you want to keep Accurate III I would think about slaying.

#36
B4nJ0

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Hi there!

I played more then 90% of my runs with a paladin main, including my 3crown solo, and all the runs I played are done at PoTD level at the very least.

 

 

I think that most of the users are not gonna like this, but if u are looking for the best party paladin, this are my 2 cent:

 

- forgive flames of devotion, it's a waste of ability and talents given the poor accuracy and it's totally asinergic with what a paladin is all about. It's decent for solo runs (couz after some levels you can trade off some tankiness to not make fights run FOREVER, but in party you don't need that).

- pick an order with cruel NOT in disfavored behavior, better bleak walkers. Mainly couz u want the extra feat in skael temple, plus rushing cruel it's pretty easy (kill the caravan) for better ez saves. You can leave act 1 with aggressive 3 / cruel 3. Sweet! Plus all talent feats of paladins are garbage enough that they are hardly worth a talent point, with the only exception of Darcozzi, but if you check my cruel point is NOT worth it. If it's not the main char, go with Darcozzi  for +15 accuracy on an ally(easy call)

-take only lay of hands skipping, I repeat, flame of devotions. Also, do NOT take any paladin talent like improved lay of hands (or how it's called) since they aren't worth the talent point.

- play with your shield, since outworn buckler is the most retarded item ever in a party (see itemization part)

 

My last paladin atm at level 7

 

 

Moon godlike (couz Cmon, in a party you have enough heads to don't give up this retarded op race) 

Bleak Walker

 

18 Might

9Con

7Dex ( 10 with ced nua rest)

10Per

19Int

15Ris

 

this is a run with fixed companions, and everybody know they have pretty horrible Dex (wtf durance is the most gimped priest ever, from a min/maxed pow). So my rushed ced nua sleep is +3dex. If u go with your own party, +3might (trash mob) +3 per (bosses) are both better, build stats around that. This is not super min/maxed, but paladins usually don't need to be since they only really need mig/int to work.

 

At level 7 she looks like this:

 

Lay of Hands

Zealous Focus (must)

Liberating Exhortation

Reviving Exhortation

 

Talents

Weap and shield

veteran recovery

Superior Deflection

 

After having done basically all acts 2 quests. 

 

Some people don't like pure "tank" characters but god, this saves are retarded.

 

You got an immortal aura char that can ress others at command and later burn enemies overtime and on top of that you benefict from your behavior so much, giving you the feel that you have even more free talents when you pick a paladin.

 

Also, a big plus is that this type of paladin is not really item dependant, aside from that retarded aura small shield right there in chapter 1 (if you want to play a paladin in a party without outworn buckler you are just doing something WRONG, not even kidding), as long as you have 1 ring of overseeing, fenwalkers, +9 all saves ring/mantle and +9 def bracer/ring she is super good to go. So, in this case, this leaved all the space to kana to wear the "sweet" stuff with the old  but gold shot in faith, sainguine plate, fulvan's amulet combo for some "hard hitting" (trying to transform a chanter into a melee DPS it's kinda funny, don't try that at home :p)

 

Back to outworn buckler point. Guys, this is in my top 5 of the most broken items in the game, I think it's unreal that is never been nerfed. I mean, we pay 1 talent to have +10 to a single save, 1 talent to gain at the very best +6 deflection if we wear a shield. This item gives an aura of 3m +5 to ALL def for ALL your party (combined with ring of overseeing and max INT is easy to play around for everyone, not just frontliners). how in the hell is this item balanced? This is THE reason why I run a paladin in a party, literally.

 

What are you gonna use over this god item? A 2h sword to use flame of devotion? kappa...

 

At the end, you can hybrid her later with bittercut, +25% corrosive flames of devotion talent (taking, ofc, flames of devotion) and spirit of decay. But it's a useless waste of feats no matter what in a party. And again, you don't really want to dual wield or use a 2h weapon to maximaze flames of devotion DPS, since outworn buckler is just THAT good unless you straightly solo run. Still it's a funny way to roleplay a bit your weap and shield cruel pally, I guess.

 

 

Paladin tank, just the best frontliner in the game (especially as a main char) IMO.


Edited by B4nJ0, 20 May 2017 - 02:10 PM.


#37
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What poor accuracy with FoD? Paladins have 25 starting accuracy and FoD has +20 accuracy and also +1 accuracy per char level. If you combine it with Sworn Enemy, Weapon Focus and Zealous Focus you will nearly always crit with FoD.

FoD + burning lash + Intense Flames + Scion of Flame leads to an additional lash damage of +120% (lash damage, not weapon base damage like Deathblows which is a lot weaker. With Merciless Hand and Firebrand or an arquebus he will deal way over 100 damage per FoD use which will most likely end most dangerous foes like priests or other casters.

So I'd say FoD is superhandy - if you don't want to be a turtledin.

Edited by Boeroer, 20 May 2017 - 01:50 PM.


#38
Aerinqq

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If you want to use Rumbalt for the whole game I would not put any slaying enchantment on it but aim for the highest quality enchantment possible. Don't remember if it's possible to put legendary + lash on it, but I guess. Lash is a no brainer of course. And once you can have superb I would put it on and replace Accurate III.
Only if you want to keep Accurate III I would think about slaying.

What lash specifically would you recommend? Corrosive/burn or it doesnt rly matter?



#39
B4nJ0

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@Boeroer

 

Why FoTD is  handly in a party?

 

 

1 ability + at least 1 talent to have a burst on a char that has, literally, the best shield in game?

 

I pick the best aura ingame (avaible at level 1) and I save a bunch of extra talents and 1 ability, no regret on that in a party. 2 burst /combact VS all res +5 all day long for everyone? In a game that is super dependant from afflictions of any kind? FoTD would be appealing but, for me, the problem is that the other option is just that good and, if devs can't balance they're own game, it's not my fail (super greedy min/maxer pow, be free to hate me for that). 

 

 

The only thing that make that buckler feel "balanced" is that it's asinergic with FoTD potential (you can't dual or use a 2h) but, well, that's a FoTD problem, not mine XD

 

 

The only, ONLY, party that I have found fotd usefull is, actually, solo party :p

 

When fight goes forever you wish to have more damage, especially when you are high level enough to pick sworn enemies and you gain 2 good sabre to use (plus all the items/talents to be, basically, immortal even in PoTD). In party play, I go for the imbaness shield and I'm glad they never nerfed that (or suspicious about in game balance, pick your pow)

 

It's more about an ok burst ability, that to work require extra talents, and a single, let me repeat 1 last time, totally umbalaced item right there to use for no cost aside the off hand slot (lol, it's even the best type of shield, small one xD)

 

Why should I pick the 1st over the latter in a party? I can see myself go for bittercut + shield and some acid FoTD later, but that's only couz my char will be probably so godlike (moon, godlike :p) in this 5man run that I will have a bunch of free talents at high levels.
 


Edited by B4nJ0, 20 May 2017 - 02:41 PM.


#40
Aerinqq

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Hi there!

I played more then 90% of my runs with a paladin main, including my 3crown solo, and all the runs I played are done at PoTD level at the very least.

 

 

I think that most of the users are not gonna like this, but if u are looking for the best party paladin, this are my 2 cent:

 

- forgive flames of devotion, it's a waste of ability and talents given the poor accuracy and it's totally asinergic with what a paladin is all about. It's decent for solo runs (couz after some levels you can trade off some tankiness to not make fights run FOREVER, but in party you don't need that).

- pick an order with cruel NOT in disfavored behavior, better bleak walkers. Mainly couz u want the extra feat in skael temple, plus rushing cruel it's pretty easy (kill the caravan) for better ez saves. You can leave act 1 with aggressive 3 / cruel 3. Sweet! Plus all talent feats of paladins are garbage enough that they are hardly worth a talent point, with the only exception of Darcozzi, but if you check my cruel point is NOT worth it. If it's not the main char, go with Darcozzi  for +15 accuracy on an ally(easy call)

-take only lay of hands skipping, I repeat, flame of devotions. Also, do NOT take any paladin talent like improved lay of hands (or how it's called) since they aren't worth the talent point.

- play with your shield, since outworn buckler is the most retarded item ever in a party (see itemization part)

 

My last paladin atm at level 7

 

 

Moon godlike (couz Cmon, in a party you have enough heads to don't give up this retarded op race) 

Bleak Walker

 

18 Might

9Con

7Dex ( 10 with ced nua rest)

10Per

19Int

15Ris

 

this is a run with fixed companions, and everybody know they have pretty horrible Dex (wtf durance is the most gimped priest ever, from a min/maxed pow). So my rushed ced nua sleep is +3dex. If u go with your own party, +3might (trash mob) +3 per (bosses) are both better, build stats around that. This is not super min/maxed, but paladins usually don't need to be since they only really need mig/int to work.

 

At level 7 she looks like this:

 

Lay of Hands

Zealous Focus (must)

Liberating Exhortation

Reviving Exhortation

 

Talents

Weap and shield

veteran recovery

Superior Deflection

 

After having done basically all acts 2 quests. 

 

Some people don't like pure "tank" characters but god, this saves are retarded.

 

You got an immortal aura char that can ress others at command and later burn enemies overtime and on top of that you benefict from your behavior so much, giving you the feel that you have even more free talents when you pick a paladin.

 

Also, a big plus is that this type of paladin is not really item dependant, aside from that retarded aura small shield right there in chapter 1 (if you want to play a paladin in a party without outworn buckler you are just doing something WRONG, not even kidding), as long as you have 1 ring of overseeing, fenwalkers, +9 all saves ring/mantle and +9 def bracer/ring she is super good to go. So, in this case, this leaved all the space to kana to wear the "sweet" stuff with the old  but gold shot in faith, sainguine plate, fulvan's amulet combo for some "hard hitting" (trying to transform a chanter into a melee DPS it's kinda funny, don't try that at home :p)

 

Back to outworn buckler point. Guys, this is in my top 5 of the most broken items in the game, I think it's unreal that is never been nerfed. I mean, we pay 1 talent to have +10 to a single save, 1 talent to gain at the very best +6 deflection if we wear a shield. This item gives an aura of 3m +5 to ALL def for ALL your party (combined with ring of overseeing and max INT is easy to play around for everyone, not just frontliners). how in the hell is this item balanced? This is THE reason why I run a paladin in a party, literally.

 

What are you gonna use over this god item? A 2h sword to use flame of devotion? kappa...

 

At the end, you can hybrid her later with bittercut, +25% corrosive flames of devotion talent (taking, ofc, flames of devotion) and spirit of decay. But it's a useless waste of feats no matter what in a party. And again, you don't really want to dual wield or use a 2h weapon to maximaze flames of devotion DPS, since outworn buckler is just THAT good unless you straightly solo run. Still it's a funny way to roleplay a bit your weap and shield cruel pally, I guess.

 

 

Paladin tank, just the best frontliner in the game (especially as a main char) IMO.

The biggest problem with this kind of paladin (or any kind of pure tank) is that the enemies will just ignore him altogether, and since he deals no damage, other than providing some aura and healing he is completely useless. Idk, I just want to deal at least some damage, otherwise I feel like its wasted char.

 

And ye, the game NPCs have just horrible stats. I wanted to play with them though cos of the story and I found perfect solution to this problem:) https://www.reddit.c...to_permanently/






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