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Ydwin to return in the expansion?


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#41
rjshae

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Regarding the sidekicks, per https://www.fig.co/c...ate=273#updates:

 

Here are some ideas the team has put together - these are not final and will probably change during development.

 

 

So yeah, they're subject to change... including Ydwin.


Edited by rjshae, 30 April 2017 - 07:28 AM.

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#42
tinysalamander

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So, uh... who is Ydwin and why do people want her as a full companion so badly? This is greatly confusing to me.

Because all the kids think that "deeper companion relationships" = Japanese dating sim and therefore assume that she will be their waifu. That is the only reason.

This. I just can't stretch enough how much Obsidian dropped the ball with that character art. The moment I saw that 'is Ydwin yandere or tsundere?' thread pop up on this forum it was obvious that certain people had gotten way too enthusiastic about the anime like qualities of the character. (And its potential dateability.) I really wished that they wouldn't have crossed over to an anime style when designing the concept art of this character, or the overall character's description: so uninspiring and bland. I feel it was really out of place as I can't see animé tropes, especially of the simplistic 'is Ydwin yandere or tsundere?' kind mix well with PoE's bleak and grim setting. Rather, I hope that Obsidian will keep developing more complex, human like characters as they did in PoE 1. In the end, I trust Obsidian to do a good job in character development, but actually hope that this character doesn't get developed into a full companion and someone else takes her place instead.

 

I can create a similar post for every companion. Or I can (the horror!) THINK about it. And you wouldn’t even know! That doesn’t really change anything. Judge the character by what (s)he is, not by something that’s in the heads of others :cat:


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#43
LuccA

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From Josh' Frog Helms Fan Club (https://twitter.com/jesawyer):

"Olá.

If we don’t hit the stretch goal by 5pm PDT today, she will be a sidekick in Deadfire.  It would be possible for her (or Rekke, etc.) to become a companion in an expansion, but not in the core game.  The new features we’re adding for companions increase the amount of work we need to do per companion by about 50%.  We’re fully scheduled for companion writing through the rest of the project just with the core 7."

 

God, just leave them out of the main game and introduce them completely in the expansion... This is a mess.

 

 

Maybe for you.  I personally glad they're doing the sidekick thing since I like  having a variety of characters to choose from.

 

 

My only worry is that they do it seamlessly. I don't wanna be playing the game remembering that I can't relate deeply with some character because there was not enough budget, but rather because he or she speaks another language, is deeply traumatized etc.

 

But you guys are right, Obsidian is probably thinking about this and I hope they come up with four different excuses for the sidekicks being less deep than the companions which I won't roll my eyes to.

 

And more importantly, how one of them will become a full deep companion in an expansion if that happens. This is all headache for the writers, which they gave themselves...


Edited by LuccA, 30 April 2017 - 01:54 PM.


#44
Gromnir

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we give the obsidians a hard time 'bout ydwin 'cause the character concept and initial artwork for goth-girl is so... trite.

 

*shrug*

 

that being said, am not certain why an animancer is absent from the core poe2 companions.  before the poe beta, the thing Gromnir were most vocal 'bout were animancy.  need not rehash in this thread, but the kickstarter descriptions and developer interviews concerning animancy left us unsatisfied. clearly the game would need better explain animancy and how in a world with tangible and real evidence o' souls, people would be anything other than horrified and terrified o' animancers who apparently with some frequency were experimenting on soulless babies and creating hordes o' undead. 

 

poe were released and seeming our initial animacy concerns were understated.  heck, the developers o' poe admit they did not do a good job o' integrating animancy into the game setting.  so what is the thinking behind creating an animancer companion for poe2, but having her relegated to sidekick status pending the achievement o' an unlikely monetary funding goal? the goth-girl with glasses is a silly sidekick we can do w/o, but how is a poe2 animancer companion anything other than a certainty?

 

lack o' an animancer companion is baffling to us.

 

HA! Good Fun!


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#45
rheingold

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One of my concerns about POE 2 is the sidekicks. I really don't see the point at all. Rather do them properly i.e. As full companions or not at all. Doing something half assed never works out well.
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#46
smjjames

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Not entirely sure what the point of the sidekicks are either, other than as a way to get around party size limits. Some of them appear to have interesting backstories that could certainly be made into very interesting stories and quests.

 

Ydwin: An animancer who is on the cutting edge of Forensic Science. Her insight into things alone would be interesting.

 

Bonteru: Hiravias would find him to be a fellow explorer. Though I'm not sure what sort of story he would have.

 

Radora: mmh, sounds like the standard trope of troubled drifter.

 

Rekke: Now, this guy has LOADS of story potential, someone who is clearly not local to the Deadfire, or any known culture, wears strange clothes, speaks a language nobody knows or recognizes. Perhaps you, the watcher, can glean into his past, or in your explorations of the Deadfire, you find clues to his past and identity, perhaps find a way to communicate with him, etc. SO MUCH potential. Of course though, having him as a sidekick could satisfy that kind of thing.


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#47
Katarack21

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Not entirely sure what the point of the sidekicks are either, other than as a way to get around party size limits.

Not party size limits; companion resource costs. Sidekicks don't have narrative arcs and don't participate in the companion reactionary system, so they don't cost *NEARLY* as much to make; thus, you can make a lot more of them for the same monetary and time cost, and you can get more of them in.

That's it. That's the *whole* point. More player choice for same amount of investment from Obsidian. That's literally the whole point.


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#48
smjjames

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I hope they still have some banter text and possibly interjections, outside of the quest or whatever that you need to do to have them join. Other than Rekke anyway, who apparently speaks a language nobody knows.


Edited by smjjames, 30 April 2017 - 01:23 PM.


#49
Karkarov

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lack o' an animancer companion is baffling to us.

 

HA! Good Fun!

I know it isn't the same thing but Serafen I think can either be a barbarian or cipher.  *shrug*

 

In the first game the original intent was to have the orlan cipher detective be a companion, but that got scrapped for Grieving Mother.  I have to admit, that was the one mistake they made with companions in game one.  GM was so disconnected from the actual plot, she made no sense as a companion.

Fortunately Eternity 2 seems to be way less focused on Animancy.  So we shall see.



#50
Wormerine

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One of my concerns about POE 2 is the sidekicks. I really don't see the point at all. Rather do them properly i.e. As full companions or not at all. Doing something half assed never works out well.


Baldurs Gate2 worked quite well, and as Josh pointed out many of those characters had limited interactions and no story archs. I do appreciate the choice with companions (not a fan of creating custom party). I think it is a great idea, giving you a solid amount if companions, with relationship system, side quest and a story arch, and a couple additional characters with personality and cool background. If it's written well, it might work very well. After all, not everyone you meet and work with becomes your good buddy. They might just be interesting characters who ally with you for the quest
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#51
Sedrefilos

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From what I make, sidekicks are companions that their story doesn't link to the main quest. Kewl. 



#52
injurai

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From what I make, sidekicks are companions that their story doesn't link to the main quest. Kewl. 

 

They also won't get the combinitorial explosion of dialogue and situation writing that the relationship system will implement. Because remember, relationships are also between companions not just the watcher.

 

Honestly, I'd expect side-kicks to come off more like companions from the first game. Maybe a tad less writing, but honestly it's not like you had all that much to talk with your companions about.


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#53
Gromnir

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One of my concerns about POE 2 is the sidekicks. I really don't see the point at all. Rather do them properly i.e. As full companions or not at all. Doing something half assed never works out well.


Baldurs Gate2 worked quite well, and as Josh pointed out many of those characters had limited interactions and no story archs. 

 

the observation by josh were a criticism o' the bg2 approach.  rather than doing as bg2 wherein a handful o' companions got full treatement and a few received little more than bg1, all poe 2 companions will have quests and party dynamic dialogues and whatever else obsidian deems essential to core companions.  no companion crapshoot for the new player such as existed with bg2.  you perhaps liked mazzy and only realized after a few dozen hours o' gameplay she were gonna be developed less than jaheira, and less than even non-romance options such as keldorn? sucker. the poe2 sidekicks, on the other hand, will get less development than companions, and the player will be aware from the start that he/she is only gonna get bg1 level development when choosing a sidekick to be filling a party slot. 

 

HA! Good Fun!



#54
Katarack21

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One of my concerns about POE 2 is the sidekicks. I really don't see the point at all. Rather do them properly i.e. As full companions or not at all. Doing something half assed never works out well.


Baldurs Gate2 worked quite well, and as Josh pointed out many of those characters had limited interactions and no story archs. 

 

the observation by josh were a criticism o' the bg2 approach.  rather than doing as bg2 wherein a handful o' companions got full treatement and a few received little more than bg1, all poe 2 companions will have quests and party dynamic dialogues and whatever else obsidian deems essential to core companions.  no companion crapshoot for the new player such as existed with bg2.  you perhaps liked mazzy and only realized after a few dozen hours o' gameplay she were gonna be developed less than jaheira, and less than even non-romance options such as keldorn? sucker. the poe2 sidekicks, on the other hand, will get less development than companions, and the player will be aware from the start that he/she is only gonna get bg1 level development when choosing a sidekick to be filling a party slot. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Right, so instead of getting 2/3rd of the way through the game and realizing this character is mysteriously silent all the time, you'll know going in. Exactly like BG2, some characters will have less interactions, but *unlike* BG2, you'll know before hand. That's literally the only difference--you'll know what characters have full interaction and what characters don't.

How in the world could knowing how much interaction you'll get out of your party be a bad thing? I don't understand that at all.


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#55
Achilles

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she is forever a side character :(

God willing


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#56
Achilles

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Not entirely sure what the point of the sidekicks are either, other than as a way to get around party size limits. 

 

Not quite. The point is to offer the player low-risk access to a variety of classes in a party based game. Rekke has no inter-dependencies, so if you piss off Eder (or another companion runs him off), you still have a fighter around. Or maybe you decide that having a dedicated fighter (Rekke) means that you can safely give Eder a rogue build.

 

Size limit of active party members is still 5. The introduction of sidekicks does nothing to change that and Obsidian never talked about a hard cap on non-active party NPCs. 


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#57
rheingold

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One of my concerns about POE 2 is the sidekicks. I really don't see the point at all. Rather do them properly i.e. As full companions or not at all. Doing something half assed never works out well.

Baldurs Gate2 worked quite well, and as Josh pointed out many of those characters had limited interactions and no story archs.
the observation by josh were a criticism o' the bg2 approach. rather than doing as bg2 wherein a handful o' companions got full treatement and a few received little more than bg1, all poe 2 companions will have quests and party dynamic dialogues and whatever else obsidian deems essential to core companions. no companion crapshoot for the new player such as existed with bg2. you perhaps liked mazzy and only realized after a few dozen hours o' gameplay she were gonna be developed less than jaheira, and less than even non-romance options such as keldorn? sucker. the poe2 sidekicks, on the other hand, will get less development than companions, and the player will be aware from the start that he/she is only gonna get bg1 level development when choosing a sidekick to be filling a party slot.

HA! Good Fun!
Right, so instead of getting 2/3rd of the way through the game and realizing this character is mysteriously silent all the time, you'll know going in. Exactly like BG2, some characters will have less interactions, but *unlike* BG2, you'll know before hand. That's literally the only difference--you'll know what characters have full interaction and what characters don't.
How in the world could knowing how much interaction you'll get out of your party be a bad thing? I don't understand that at all.
Well, it's probably a good thing under those circumstances that you know one character is a sidekick as opposed to a companion.
My issue is I just don't see the point of sidekicks. Of course it will take resources and time to make them. But they could spend that time on the companions. Or even add one more companion instead of several sidekicks. Not sure how much time/resources is needed for a sidekick compared to a companion. But it will take time/resources. I'm also worried about the party relationship being lopsided. Ie one chirpy character v one taciturn toon. Not because it's his personality just because they ran out of money. Truth be told, I reckon many people might just go for mercs instead, in which case it's a waste.
Also: signing off, I can't help remember something I was taught ad nauseam as a kid. Do things properly or not at all. Mainly because it's a waste of time and money to do things by half. Time and money that could be spent elsewhere.

Edited by rheingold, 01 May 2017 - 01:36 AM.

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#58
Rorschach

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One of my concerns about POE 2 is the sidekicks. I really don't see the point at all. Rather do them properly i.e. As full companions or not at all. Doing something half assed never works out well.

I don't think there's anything wrong with having them. I mean, I probably won't use them much because I rather have the full companions in my party, sure, but it's not like a half-assed core mechanic (like a stronghold) that you're going to have to use. It's optional, you can safely ignore them. They are not replacing any full companions, they are an addition so we have more options when creating a party, because without them we would have only the main companions and the mercenaries. Same with the mercenaries: you don't like them? Fine, but you don't have to use them. What's the problem with that?

 

That said, I don't care much about Ydwin. I can't believe she's so popular with so little. Let's focus on the game and when we know her and it's time for an expansion, lets discuss this, but at this time it is rather pointless.



#59
Katarack21

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I doubt very much that sidekicks will have *no* interactions. They won't participate in the relationship system; that doesn't mean they won't banter and say stuff on occasion.



#60
Sedrefilos

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From fig campaign info we know that sidekicks will:

a) Have a unique quest you'll need to complete in order for them to follow you.

b) They'll have dialogues, personal preferences and will interject in conversations just as other companions.

c) They won't be part of the relationship system.

d) Their story won't be linked in the main plot.

e) They'll be something like Minsk in Baldur's Gate 2.

 

f) They won't be tsundere, yundere, fungere, marungere or whatever other -ere   :getlost:


Edited by Sedrefilos, 01 May 2017 - 03:06 AM.

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