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114 replies to this topic

#101
KaineParker

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Get a room and **** already nerds, this is a muscle wizard board.

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#102
Fenixp

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#103
dukeisaac

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Honestly, I don't understand why some posters insist on posting about a game they clearly cant stand. We get it, you dont like POE. Why waste time repeating it? There are plenty of other games that can scratch your itch.

 

For the rest of us, the stats fill their purpose. Is it an elegant/genius solution? Nope. They are serviceable and play in ok with the mechanics. Nothing minor tweaks cant solve.

 

There are a lot of things about PoE I do like, that's why it bothers me so to see an otherwise excellent game ruined by a few idiotic design decisions. This is an old issue, a small but incredibly impactful part of the game that many people dislike immensely. I'm not here to mindlessly praise Obsidian like an idiot, I'm here because I'm interested in ideas that could improve the game, and that means discussing about things I don't like so much.

 

And if you think that minor tweaks can solve the issues then by all means, share your ideas with the class: those ideas are the reason this thread exists, not this bull**** spewed by infantile people getting defensive because their favorite game gets criticism.

 

I don't pretend to have the awesome solution that solves everything. I read posts, show my support when good ideas are thrown around and very rarely, I express my disagreement. In cases such as this one, I try to explain (in a polite and respectful tone) my point, which basically is this : if you want the devs to listen to you, maybe spitting on their work isn't the way to go.

 

If your goal is actually that. I'm starting to believe otherwise.

 

In any case, being condescending only goes so far. Eventually, people don't take you seriously.



#104
Ninjamestari

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So you just decided that now is a good time to act like an ****.

 

That's basically it.

 

 

Glad we cleared that up. Now was there something you'd like to say regarding this discussion about the attribute system you so rudely interrupted or are we done?

 

Not to nitpick, but that's often not the impression you leave. Personally, I question the value of repeated attacks against a system that pleases or is at least considered serviceable by most players. In any case, I'm happy to see that you enjoy enough of the game to feel so strongly about it.

 

Fair enough. But you need to take into account that I didn't start half of these conversations. There are plenty of people who dislike the attribute system, but they've had to face with the same disingenuous arguments and other bull**** I've had to endure when speaking up, and thus many of them have been effectively bullied into silence or completely out of these forums. I'm completely serious when I say that these forums are a kind of an echo chamber when fans congregate to agree with eachother; this happens with gaming forums quite often so this isn't so surprising, but the kind of attitude some people here have towards differing viewpoints is downright disgusting. With lesser games I don't even bother to look at the forums, let alone create an account and post on them, for this very reason.

 

And to emphasize again where I come from: I'm interested in ideas that could improve the game, that's why I naturally focus on the flaws. Sitting in a circle repeating a mantra of how good the game is isn't useful to anyone, not to us as players and not to Obsidian as the developer.



#105
KaineParker

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#106
Ninjamestari

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I don't pretend to have the awesome solution that solves everything. I read posts, show my support when good ideas are thrown around and very rarely, I express my disagreement. In cases such as this one, I try to explain (in a polite and respectful tone) my point, which basically is this : if you want the devs to listen to you, maybe spitting on their work isn't the way to go.

 

If your goal is actually that. I'm starting to believe otherwise.

 

In any case, being condescending only goes so far. Eventually, people don't take you seriously.

 

I'm sure that the people at Obsidian are professional enough to focus on the arguments and not the tone. I don't see how people not taking me seriously is a bad thing in any way, then they can more easily either focus on what I say and should that inspire creative thought they can then contribute, and if not, they can ignore me and not derail the conversation. I trust in my words to justify themselves, and thus have no interest in trying to establish any sort of authority or personal credibility. The last thing I want is a bunch of mindless sycophants praising every word I say, those kind of people make me sick.



#107
dukeisaac

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So you just decided that now is a good time to act like an ****.

 

That's basically it.

 

 

Glad we cleared that up. Now was there something you'd like to say regarding this discussion about the attribute system you so rudely interrupted or are we done?

 

Not to nitpick, but that's often not the impression you leave. Personally, I question the value of repeated attacks against a system that pleases or is at least considered serviceable by most players. In any case, I'm happy to see that you enjoy enough of the game to feel so strongly about it.

 

Fair enough. But you need to take into account that I didn't start half of these conversations. There are plenty of people who dislike the attribute system, but they've had to face with the same disingenuous arguments and other bull**** I've had to endure when speaking up, and thus many of them have been effectively bullied into silence or completely out of these forums. I'm completely serious when I say that these forums are a kind of an echo chamber when fans congregate to agree with eachother; this happens with gaming forums quite often so this isn't so surprising, but the kind of attitude some people here have towards differing viewpoints is downright disgusting. With lesser games I don't even bother to look at the forums, let alone create an account and post on them, for this very reason.

 

And to emphasize again where I come from: I'm interested in ideas that could improve the game, that's why I naturally focus on the flaws. Sitting in a circle repeating a mantra of how good the game is isn't useful to anyone, not to us as players and not to Obsidian as the developer.

 

I've followed this thread (and most others) quite a bit and it seems to me that most posts are entirely from a subjective viewpoint. Not to say that good ideas arent written, but I havent seen any clear argument to justify a complete overhaul of attributes. Maybe you and many others think so, if so, so be it. In any case, this is Obsidian's game, and the devs chose a system and they should probably stick to it.

 

That being said, I agree that certain stats should be made more relevant (Resolve and Constitution comes to mind). Some good ideas have been said, namely, better bonuses for those two attributes and a clarification of their roles in dialogue. The whole Might thing is, IMO, de l'enculage de mouche, as we say in French.

 

I think we can all agree that we're impatient to learn more about the different systems in POE2.


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#108
Ninjamestari

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Hah, someone should edit a wizard hat and a grimoire hanging from a chain for that guy.


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#109
rjshae

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So you just decided that now is a good time to act like an ****.

 

That's basically it.

 

 

Glad we cleared that up. Now was there something you'd like to say regarding this discussion about the attribute system you so rudely interrupted or are we done?

 

Not to nitpick, but that's often not the impression you leave. Personally, I question the value of repeated attacks against a system that pleases or is at least considered serviceable by most players. In any case, I'm happy to see that you enjoy enough of the game to feel so strongly about it.

 

Fair enough. But you need to take into account that I didn't start half of these conversations. There are plenty of people who dislike the attribute system, but they've had to face with the same disingenuous arguments and other bull**** I've had to endure when speaking up, and thus many of them have been effectively bullied into silence or completely out of these forums. I'm completely serious when I say that these forums are a kind of an echo chamber when fans congregate to agree with eachother; this happens with gaming forums quite often so this isn't so surprising, but the kind of attitude some people here have towards differing viewpoints is downright disgusting. With lesser games I don't even bother to look at the forums, let alone create an account and post on them, for this very reason.

 

And to emphasize again where I come from: I'm interested in ideas that could improve the game, that's why I naturally focus on the flaws. Sitting in a circle repeating a mantra of how good the game is isn't useful to anyone, not to us as players and not to Obsidian as the developer.

 

I've followed this thread (and most others) quite a bit and it seems to me that most posts are entirely from a subjective viewpoint. Not to say that good ideas arent written, but I havent seen any clear argument to justify a complete overhaul of attributes. Maybe you and many others think so, if so, so be it. In any case, this is Obsidian's game, and the devs chose a system and they should probably stick to it.

 

That being said, I agree that certain stats should be made more relevant (Resolve and Constitution comes to mind). Some good ideas have been said, namely, better bonuses for those two attributes and a clarification of their roles in dialogue. The whole Might thing is, IMO, de l'enculage de mouche, as we say in French.

 

I think we can all agree that we're impatient to learn more about the different systems in POE2.

 

Yes, an attribute overhaul at this point would create more work than it would solve. Everything would need to be rebalanced and retested. It seems pretty unlikely to happen, and I really don't think the game needs it.


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#110
Ninjamestari

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I've followed this thread (and most others) quite a bit and it seems to me that most posts are entirely from a subjective viewpoint. Not to say that good ideas arent written, but I havent seen any clear argument to justify a complete overhaul of attributes. Maybe you and many others think so, if so, so be it. In any case, this is Obsidian's game, and the devs chose a system and they should probably stick to it.

 

That being said, I agree that certain stats should be made more relevant (Resolve and Constitution comes to mind). Some good ideas have been said, namely, better bonuses for those two attributes and a clarification of their roles in dialogue. The whole Might thing is, IMO, de l'enculage de mouche, as we say in French.

 

I think we can all agree that we're impatient to learn more about the different systems in POE2.

 

 

Whether or not you find the current system likable or acceptable is a subjective thing. The fact that a significant portion of the player-base finds the current system to be detracting is not, and the argument I make is that if a system X is acceptable to group A but not to group B, while a system Y is acceptable to both groups, then system Y is the superior choice.

 

Also, I agree that a major overhaul isn't necessary, as the problem mostly boils down to the way Might works; people want their physical and mental strength to be separate, and that is the main issue most people have with the system. Other lesser issues arise, such as perception being a bit too important for everyone due to it governing accuracy and the stats being a bit MMOy are another issue, but both issues are fixable with minor tweaking. The discussion could even evolve to brainstorming about alternatives, which could be very interesting *and* useful for obsidian, if the topic didn't get attacked by hysterical fans who are threatened by the idea. There are people who want to have an honest discussion about this subject and so far an opportunity to do so has been denied, which is part of the reason this subject keeps coming up all the time.

 

EDIT: just to clarify, what I think needs an overhaul is not the math of the stat-system, but the specifics of what they represent and such. Also, they're reworking the way classes work rather completely, with them getting rid of vancian casting and all, so redesigning the attribute-system wouldn't really add that much extra work. I'd wager in fact that they're already planning to change some details about the stat system.


Edited by Ninjamestari, Today, 01:45 PM.


#111
Messier-31

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Messier-31 didn't actually make a point with that picture. 

 

Surprise. I did.

 

 

Actually the graph you posted is simply a depiction of the current system. I really don't understand what you wished to accomplish with it.

 

The current system is exactly what you propose to "change".

 

I rest my case, take two.


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#112
Baltic

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The fact that a significant portion of the player-base finds the current system to be detracting is not,


I'm not trying to claim that this is completely wrong or anything, but do we actually know this for sure?
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#113
HooAmEye

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Edited by HooAmEye, Today, 03:07 PM.


#114
rjshae

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The fact that a significant portion of the player-base finds the current system to be detracting is not,


I'm not trying to claim that this is completely wrong or anything, but do we actually know this for sure?

 

Yes; pick any game system you want and it's going to have a "significant" number of detractors. Probably at least a half dozen. There's no way to know for sure whether the attribute system had any "significant" impact on sales. Some players may have found the system a deterrent; others may find the new approach appealing. In the end, the two may well cancel each other out. Who knows?


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#115
Durgarnkuld

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I'm not sure where these statistics always come from. What are considerably numbers for people who like or dislike that ****. Where are these coming from? I don't even know how many like it.

Anyways, **** got real in this thread.

I haven't really seen much: "oh well, we just want some civil discussion and look at problems we have and express how we feel about them and make devs notice our concerns". More: well, this isn't DnD, which is gold, and thus it's obviously **** and who can't see this is **** and stupid.

Which is ludicrous, of course. And then next point is: we are an army btw and have significant impact on sales, so better listen! These other guys would be happy with anything anyways!

 

Sure, that's my reading so far, doesn't have to be 100% accurate. I'm all for exchanging ideas, voicing concerns and debating how these come to pass. But not in the so long displayed manner of: well, Might isn't Strengths so it's objectively bad. Maybe there is a problem with having physical and mental attack powers tied to one attribute. But then just show and tell how and why. And next: is this really a problem. In case of might I can't see it. Seems more like writing and semantics so far. But I guess I can understand that it's just weird or uncomfortable for some. On the other hand, other settings have roundhouse kicking Wizards too. Doesn't seem to be a universal problem at least.

 

For all I care we can have 20 attributes if it has real merit and improves mechanics and immersion. But I somehow doubt it.

 

Then again, maybe I'm watching too much anime where magical and physical prowess seems to be linked all the ****ing time, so I don't even care about this **** anymore.


Edited by Durgarnkuld, Today, 04:41 PM.

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