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Rogue build help, frustrated with losing end too fast and fainting too much

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#1
smjjames

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I realize that this is my first runthrough of the game and I'm on easy, so, I shouldn't worry about it too much. However, I'm feeling frustrated with it losing endurance really fast and fainting too much. Not even Durance (heh on that guys name) had that much of an issue.

 

In easy battles, he's fine, but on more challenging battles, it's a real problem, and I feel like I've built it wrong, using it wrong, or both.

 

The build that I tried to go with is the caleb rogue build in this steam guide (which is out of date however, and is similar to the don juan build on this forum.

 

Currently level 5 (though not far from 6)

race: Hearth Orlan

Background: Old Vailia, Aristocrat

 

Attributes without equipment (includes race and background bonus though):

 

M: 12

C: 10

D:10

P: 19 (because rogue)

I: 16 (because smart aristocrat)

R: 11

 

Skills (I noticed that the builds listed in here rarely go into the skills, but I'll list anyway):

 

Stealth: 6

Athletics: 1

Lore: 3

Mechanics: 5 (probably could have bumped it up one level or two)

Survival: 1

 

Talents:

Weapon Focus: Soldier

Two-Handed style

 

Abilities:

Crippling Strike

Crucible of the Soul (automatic Watcher ability I think)

Dirty Fighting

Minor Threat (Orlan racial ability)

Reckless Assault

Second Wind

Sneak Attack

Speaker to the Restless (Watcher ability)

 

Equipment:

head: none (though I do have the Footpad's Hood which I got recently and I could equip that)

Neck: Minor Cloak of Protection (+5 of reflex, will, and fort. Was trying to improve the endurance problem)

Body: Mail Armor

Hands: Fulvano's gloves (+2 dex)

Feet: none (just realized that I've neglected that, heh)

Waist: none

Ring/Accessory: Gaun's Pledge (that ring you get from the start) and Minor Ring of Protection (+5 fort, reflex, and will. Again, trying to solve the endurance problem)

Weapon/Shield: Fine Spear (Trying to get to that tall grass pike, but don't have the cash atm), Medium Shield (Heater)

 

So, any ideas as to how I can fix the issue of him losing endurance quickly and easily? It's only in the somewhat challenging fights that it's a problem. I'm just a bit frustrated because this is on EASY and I just feel like I'm doing something wrong here.


Edited by smjjames, 16 April 2017 - 07:17 AM.


#2
Blades of Vanatar

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Make him the second wave. Engage with others first while you strike from a distance with an Arquebuses/Arbalest. Then flank. Fights will end quickly on Easy. Continue this theory even after you get Tallgrass.

Edited by Blades of Vanatar, 16 April 2017 - 07:19 AM.


#3
smjjames

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What about with multiple enemies going on?



#4
Boeroer

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Only attack disables enemies. If you find that boring, pick up a thick armor (brigandine is thick but doesn't look too bulky) and Veteran's Recovery. You have decent INT so it will last long enough. It helps with endurance loss without the need of micromanagement. It obviously doesn't help with health loss.

#5
smjjames

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The endurance loss is the one I'm frustrated with, not health loss.

 

With what Blades of Vanatar said, maybe I am doing things wrong as I just click attack and have them go at it.



#6
Boeroer

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Yes, that's not the best strategy when using rogues. They do a lot of single target damage in the early game compared to other melee classes, but you have to babysit them a lot because they have abysmal endurance and deflection (for a melee setup) and no self buffs to make up for this.

 

As I said: Veteran's Recovery and a thick armor help. Less babysitting but also a bit less dps. But you will deal 0 dps when you're kncoed out, so maybe it isn't a dps loss after all. ;)

If you reach Defiance Bay and unlock Durance's Shop in Crucible Keep via quest, buy Shod-in-Faith boots. Those will add a lot of survivability to your rogue as well without sacrificing offense.

If you use those things you might also want to boost survival a bit (8 points are ok) in order to get the +40% healing bonus and also get Fulvano's Amulet (it's obtainable very early) which will give you additional +25% healing bonus. Those bonuses also boost Veteran's Recovery and Shod-in-Faith. That way your rogue will be sturdy enough for most encounters because his self healing capabilites will be very good. Those bonuses also work with any other heals you might receive, including potions. Then comes the part where you will run into health issues. ;) Potions with Infuse with Vital Essence can help a lot here.


Edited by Boeroer, 16 April 2017 - 07:54 AM.


#7
Blades of Vanatar

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Also note that if you pick abilities/talents that lessen your deflection like Reckless Assualt in the early levels then you are making yourself even more of an easy target. Pick Savage Attack or Weapon Focus first. Or anything else that doesn't reduce your melee survivability.

#8
Boeroer

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First talent pick: Veteran's Recovery. ;)
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#9
Blades of Vanatar

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First talent pick: Veteran's Recovery. ;)


You know it!

Rogue has high starting ACC, your build has very high Per for more ACC and if you flank attack as the 2nd wave you don't need talents like Reckless Assualt in the early game. It's easy to look at ability/talent descriptions in PoE and think 'Wow! That's awesome!' But then feel very disappointed when you constantly go down for the count. You will get hit in the early game if your a Rogue so give yourself some staying power.

#10
Livegood118

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I find that Rogues' value increases proportional to the amount of AoE CC you can churn out in the party, namely because:

 

– Hard CC'd enemies can't hurt the naturally squishy Rogue, meaning you're less likely to die

– The Rogue can go balls to the wall with damage when enemies are hard CCd

– Hard and other cc will mean the Rogue is dealing damage optimally (Sneak Attack, Deathblows) 

– Having other characters CC means the Rogue doesn't have to be able to CC and can invest in passive damage increasing abilities

 

Naturally as a result of the above I find Rogues get better the farther in to the game you go, and they can be pretty lacklustre in the beginning.

 

I wouldn't run a Rogue without at least 2 of Cipher/Druid/Wizard/CC Chanter as I'd much rather take a fighter instead.


Edited by Livegood118, 16 April 2017 - 12:36 PM.

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#11
JFutral

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I don't think the ring of protection stacks with the cloak of protection.

 

I'm a big believer in Perception, but I probably would have put a couple of those into Dexterity.

 

I love using my rogue for hit and runs with escape, smoke screen, and any disengagement bonuses. But mine are primarily archers until about mid-game game. For melee I usually go with sabre and stiletto or dagger. I had two unique stiletto's for a while and did fairly well. Although right now I am using the Nightshroud mace

 

Rogue definitely takes more management, which is probably why I like him so much. Most everyone else I kind of have my own play style set on auto-pilot, but I love micromanaging my rogues. A lot of setting a trap, then using a bow to draw the enemy in. He retreats to behind the group and then pulls out melee as or if the enemy envelopes the party. When my wizard gets Pull of Eora, I usually drop it centered on the trap.

 

Unless you feel the need for your rogue to use scrolls, I wouldn't waste any points in Lore. I am a big believer in 3 points in Athletics to get a decent Second Chance, especially early game.

 

Just some thoughts,

Joe



#12
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Right - the ring and the cloak don't stack. The only cloak whose defense bonuses stack with everything is Cloak of Comfort.

Athletics gives you Second Wind - it doesn't scale with level and has awful casting time and recovery. I don't put a single point into Athletics no matter the build. I nmy opinion it's better to invest in lore and cast Moonwell or invest in survival and get healing bonuses instead.

Edit: corrected some horrible grammar mistakes (left some in for your amusement ;))

Edited by Boeroer, 17 April 2017 - 12:31 AM.


#13
JFutral

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Right - the ring and the cloak don't stack. The only cloak which defense bonuses stacks with everything is Cloak of Comfort.

Athletics gives you Second Wind - it doesn't scale with level and has awful casting time and recovery. I don't put a single point into Athletics no matter the build. I nmy opinion it's better to invest in lore and cast Moonwell or invest in survival and get healing bonuses instead.

Of course you would. I'm lucky to remember I even have scrolls, much less use them.

 

Joe



#14
Boeroer

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Yeah - that's why I like survival's healing bonuses with Veteran's Recovery much better: you don't even need to click on an icon. ;)
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#15
firkraag888

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I realize that this is my first runthrough of the game and I'm on easy, so, I shouldn't worry about it too much. However, I'm feeling frustrated with it losing endurance really fast and fainting too much. Not even Durance (heh on that guys name) had that much of an issue.

 

In easy battles, he's fine, but on more challenging battles, it's a real problem, and I feel like I've built it wrong, using it wrong, or both.

 

The build that I tried to go with is the caleb rogue build in this steam guide (which is out of date however, and is similar to the don juan build on this forum.

 

Currently level 5 (though not far from 6)

race: Hearth Orlan

Background: Old Vailia, Aristocrat

 

Attributes without equipment (includes race and background bonus though):

 

M: 12

C: 10

D:10

P: 19 (because rogue)

I: 16 (because smart aristocrat)

R: 11

 

Skills (I noticed that the builds listed in here rarely go into the skills, but I'll list anyway):

 

Stealth: 6

Athletics: 1

Lore: 3

Mechanics: 5 (probably could have bumped it up one level or two)

Survival: 1

 

Talents:

Weapon Focus: Soldier

Two-Handed style

 

Abilities:

Crippling Strike

Crucible of the Soul (automatic Watcher ability I think)

Dirty Fighting

Minor Threat (Orlan racial ability)

Reckless Assault

Second Wind

Sneak Attack

Speaker to the Restless (Watcher ability)

 

Equipment:

head: none (though I do have the Footpad's Hood which I got recently and I could equip that)

Neck: Minor Cloak of Protection (+5 of reflex, will, and fort. Was trying to improve the endurance problem)

Body: Mail Armor

Hands: Fulvano's gloves (+2 dex)

Feet: none (just realized that I've neglected that, heh)

Waist: none

Ring/Accessory: Gaun's Pledge (that ring you get from the start) and Minor Ring of Protection (+5 fort, reflex, and will. Again, trying to solve the endurance problem)

Weapon/Shield: Fine Spear (Trying to get to that tall grass pike, but don't have the cash atm), Medium Shield (Heater)

 

So, any ideas as to how I can fix the issue of him losing endurance quickly and easily? It's only in the somewhat challenging fights that it's a problem. I'm just a bit frustrated because this is on EASY and I just feel like I'm doing something wrong here.

Build this

 

https://forums.obsid...-vampric-leech/

 

follow it and you will be very durable



#16
smjjames

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-snip-

Build this

 

https://forums.obsid...-vampric-leech/

 

follow it and you will be very durable

 

 

I can't change the characters base stats with respeccing/rebuilding.

 

edit: conflated 'rerolling' with 'respeccing/rebuilding'.


Edited by smjjames, 18 April 2017 - 03:46 PM.


#17
firkraag888

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yes you can cant you?



#18
smjjames

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I meant respeccing (or rebuilding), not rerolling (as in starting a new one from scratch), I conflated the two. sorry. Fixed my mistake, thanks for letting me know on it.


Edited by smjjames, 18 April 2017 - 03:47 PM.


#19
Boeroer

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Still you can alter the stats when retraining (in an inn for example).

Edited by Boeroer, 18 April 2017 - 09:11 PM.


#20
smjjames

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Still you can alter the stats when retraining (in an inn for example).

 

Forgot, heh. Can't for the story characters though.

 

I want to retrain Caroc however, since one rogue (my char) already uses a spear/pike type weapon.


Edited by smjjames, 19 April 2017 - 06:29 AM.






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