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The most unfortunate tale of Durgan's Battery - helping understand

durgans battery white forge ondra abydon

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#1
Messier-31

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Howyadoin'?

 

I have some questions about the main plot of the White March, hope you mates could help me understand these things a bit. This is me replaying the whole game, but still I find the story of White March a little too complex here and there. There are some things I would like to point out, since the Pillars wiki is not as plentiful as one would like.

 

1. The komendants of the Battery

 

I'm not sure if I understand correctly, but to me it looks like this - correct me if I'm wrong:

 

EXANDRU wants to STAY in the hold and worship ABYDON.

ZOLTUN wants to STAY in the hold and sell the goods to the HIGHEST BIDDER.

MARUNN wants to LEAVE the hold and explore like the PARGRUNEN.

 

Is this the initial conflict that led to the later events?

Where does this tie-up with the Eyless storming into the keep?

What was GREGUR's role in this (apart from stealing the goods)?

 

2. Ondra's master plan

 

What did ONDRA want to accomplish by slaying ABYDON?

What was her plan, plain and simple?

 

3. Leaden Key's involvement

 

Was there really a reason for the Leaden Key to intervene in the Battery? The secret of the gods was quite safe, the hold was abandoned for 200 years before they showed up. They failed miserably, and it only looks like a way of telling your PC that it might be worth checking what's going up in the White March, because, you know - Leaden Key, omg.


Edited by Messier-31, 31 March 2017 - 12:59 PM.

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#2
Messier-31

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Either you guys know squat about WM or don't care :p

 

I'm gonna go with the latter.



#3
Achilles

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1) Folklore is that the dwarves of Durgan's Battery sealed themselves inside and killed themselves off in a civil war. Everything you encounter while exploring supports this until you get to the Foundry where you discover inexplicable damage. Once you meet the Komendant's they reveal that, yeah, sure, they had some disagreements but nothing they would resort to violence over. What really happened is that they fought for their lives against the "Eyeless".

 

2) Ondra didn't set out to slay Abydon. She wanted to wipe out all trace of the Engwithans. Abydon, being the patron of preservation, opposed this, took steps to prevent it from happening, and sacrificed himself in the process. 

 

3) Looks like you're pretty much on track here.


Edited by Achilles, 03 April 2017 - 06:23 PM.

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#4
Messier-31

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Thanks for the insight, mate!

 

And sorry, but I'm still a bit in the dark here. A lot has been happening and I haven't been paying attention to my playthrough as much as I would like.

 

1) Folklore is that the dwarves of Durgan's Battery sealed themselves inside and killed themselves off in a civil war. Everything you encounter while exploring supports this until you get to the Foundry where you discover inexplicable damage. Once you meet the Komendant's they reveal that, yeah, sure, they had some disagreements but nothing they would resort to violence over. What really happened is that they fought for their lives against the "Eyeless".

 

2) Ondra didn't set out to slay Abydon. She wanted to wipe out all trace of the Engwithans. Abydon, being the patron of preservation, opposed this, took steps to prevent it from happening, and sacrificed himself in the process. 

 

1) But why the Eyless attacked the dwarves of the Durgan's Battery? Was it because they were Abydon's "minions" but after his "death" they were loyal to Ondra?

2) What the Engwithans had to do with the Durgan's Battery? The hold was built by the Pargrunen, not by the Engwithans.

  • Also,

3) As I understand correctly, Abydon came back to "life" after he was hit by the moon (Ionni Brathr). Does he have no memory of what happened?



#5
Achilles

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1) The second question: mostly yes. She co-opted them (which isn't the same thing as them changing allegiances). The first question: they had unearthed something she meant to keep forgotten.

 

2) Engwithans had nothing to do with Durgan's Battery. The reason why the gods decided to wipe out the Engwithans has not yet been revealed (so far as I've been able to tell), though I have my theories and I suspect we'll learn more in Deadfire.

 

"The other gods knew what had to be done. But they lacked the will to through with it. Even gods have their attachments. To erase all knowledge of such a grand thing required unthinkable devastation. The Eastern Reach. Deadfire. Mine was the only solution."

 

Don't confuse Ondra's reason for wiping out the Pargrunen with her reason for wanting to wipe out the Engwithans.

 

3) That's correct. Though you have some say over to what extent this remains true by the time you're finished in White March. I fully expect this choice to have consequences in Deadfire (I can't wait to see what sailing is like when Ondra hates your f**king guts).


Edited by Achilles, 05 April 2017 - 09:45 PM.

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#6
Messier-31

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1) (...) The first question: they had unearthed something she meant to keep forgotten.

 

2) Engwithans had nothing to do with Durgan's Battery. The reason why the gods decided to wipe out the Engwithans has not yet been revealed (so far as I've been able to tell), though I have my theories and I suspect we'll learn more in Deadfire.

 

(...)

 

3) That's correct. Though you have some say over to what extent this remains true by the time you're finished in White March. I fully expect this choice to have consequences in Deadfire (I can't wait to see what sailing is like when Ondra hates your f**king guts).

 

 

1) I seriously don't remember that part. It sounds like LOTR dwarves that dug too deep and undearthed the Balrog. But back on track: was that "something" explicitly mentioned and named in the game? What was it, that they unearthed?
 
2) Most logical explanation would be that the gods wanted to get rid of their creators, just in case. But that is a bit too obvious, isn't it?
 
3) At this point I'm curious too, because this even I see: Ondra would be pissed at you big time. In my case this is kinda strange, becuase I always considered Ondra to be the deity that my PC would worship. I miss the possibilty of picking your deity like in Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2, even though it had no impact whatsoever.


#7
Achilles

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1) It's all in the first 5 lines Ondra speaks to you. The "something" is Durgan's Battery/The White Forge.

 

"Deceitful wretch! Grave robber! You, who dig for that which you did not bury, speak! Explain yourself and be judged. You seek what is mine! What was rightfully lost! Your actions speak for themselves. The Battery opened. The forge ignited. You set free souls that hid from me. That stole from me and evaded my judgement. The dwarves sealed their own fate. The forge was meant to be forgotten."

 

2) Could be but doubtful. Ondra makes it sound like a decision no one wanted to make and that she was the only one willing to do "what needed to be done". My take is that not all of the gods agree with what the Engwithans did/were doing. In other words, some of the gods agreed with Iovara.

 

3) You have the option to keep her happy too. But then I suspect there will be a consequence with Abydon (or possibly other gods who don't appreciate that you took Ondra's side).


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#8
Messier-31

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1) It's all in the first 5 lines Ondra speaks to you. The "something" is Durgan's Battery/The White Forge.

 

"Deceitful wretch! Grave robber! You, who dig for that which you did not bury, speak! Explain yourself and be judged. You seek what is mine! What was rightfully lost! Your actions speak for themselves. The Battery opened. The forge ignited. You set free souls that hid from me. That stole from me and evaded my judgement. The dwarves sealed their own fate. The forge was meant to be forgotten."

 

OK, almost done here.

 

What, the Battery and the Forge are this buried secret? Didn't we just agree few lines above that DB was built by the Pargrunen and not Engwithans?

 

2) Engwithans had nothing to do with Durgan's Battery. 

 

Confusing.

If they had nothing to do with it, then it wasn't a secret.

If it wasn't a secret, then it wasn't meant to be forgotten.

If it wasn't meant to be forgotten, then Ondra fcuked sth up.


Edited by Messier-31, 06 April 2017 - 08:35 AM.


#9
Achilles

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Durgan's Battery = one thing. The White Forge = another. The Pargrunen discovered the latter and built the former.

The White Forge is where Abydon worked, making it a thing of the gods (not meant for kith). When he died trying to preserve the Engwithans, it became a forgotten thing (and therefore the "property" of Ondra). The Pargrunen overstepped and Ondra sent the Eyeless to wipe them out (she now had a tool for surgical strikes and didn't need to pull down moons anymore). When you reopen Durgan's Battery and restart the White Forge, you do the same thing (which is why the Eyeless come after you).
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#10
Achilles

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Sorry for the double post.

Re: the bit you quoted above - the events involving the gods deciding to wipe out the Engwithans, Ondra taking steps to do so, and Abydon taking steps to oppose her are completely unrelated to the Pargrunen discovering the White Forge, building Durgan's Battery, and getting wiped out by the Eyeless. This is what I meant when I said that the Engwithans had nothing to do with Durgan's Battery.
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#11
Messier-31

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Thank you @Achilles and +100 internet points to You.

 

In my case this truly is EOT.



#12
Achilles

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Happy to have helped :)

#13
Messier-31

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You know, I'm still pondering on the topic and wonder...

 

I wonder how long it took the Eyless to attack the Pargunen after they've started using the White Forge. Because after restarting it yourself you are pretty quickly acquainted with the Eyless (in terms of days, maybe weeks). Beside the Battery you have Fort Bonepicker, The Hawk, so the dwarves built the entire nation around the Battery that was called the White March, they were famous for making the Durgan steel, so it must've been YEARS of operations before the Eyless attack.

 

I wonder for how long this dwarven kingdom thrived and if the Eyless were lazy back then.


Edited by Messier-31, 06 April 2017 - 10:12 PM.

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#14
Regggler

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You know, I'm still pondering on the topic and wonder...

 

I wonder how long it took the Eyless to attack the Pargunen after they've started using the White Forge. Because after restarting it yourself you are pretty quickly acquainted with the Eyless (in terms of days, maybe weeks). Beside the Battery you have Fort Bonepicker, The Hawk, so the dwarves built the entire nation around the Battery that was called the White March, they were famous for making the Durgan steel, so it must've been YEARS of operations before the Eyless attack.

 

I wonder for how long this dwarven kingdom thrived and if the Eyless were lazy back then.

Interesting point - maybe they were simply quicker to react the second time around because it was still a sore spot. Perhaps the gods didn't think the Pargrunen working the Forge was a problem at first, and so they let them continue. Then, when the Pargrunen were on the verge of discovering the true power of the Forge ("digging too deep", so to say), Ondra intervened.

 

When the Watcher rediscovered the White Forge, Ondra knew the danger, and so reacted much quicker.

 

(Just my ramblings. I don't have a source to back this claim.)


Edited by Regggler, 06 April 2017 - 11:56 PM.

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#15
Achilles

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Yeah, there are a few plot points in WM that bug me as well. We touched on one of them earlier re: the Leaden Key. This is another. Chock it up to a small team of writers working against a clock?

#16
Messier-31

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Leaden Key was clearly a McGuffin.

 

Lazy Eyless might be a plothole.



#17
Achilles

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FWIW, I've only been through the dialog with the Eyeless a couple of times and haven't paid nearly as much attention to that encounter. It's entirely possible that an explanation is provided there.

#18
Gnomic

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Maybe after clearing out the dwarves, the Eyeless were parked near the White Forge, so less travel time was necessary to come after $CHARNAME.


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#19
Messier-31

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Trivia time! How many of you returned to the top of the Durgan's Battery west tower? After finishing the quest "Ready the cannons" you find several workers and Wengra there. Clicking multiple spyglass icons on the cannons triggers Wengra's dialogue. Each cannon has a unique name.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: durgans battery, white forge, ondra, abydon

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