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Planescape: Torment EE


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#21
SonicMage117

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The most important thing is that I will be able to play it on my phone/tablet and Steam...

I must admit I have alot more found memories of playing and beating BG2 on my tablet at age 28 than I do playing and beating the original BG2 on a trinitron crt at age of 13.

A+ for portability which trumps small content changes :)
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#22
Majek

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I'll just ignore this like everything they've put out. Ef them and all their work.



#23
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I think I'll buy it for all platforms they put it out on....

I'm not the kind that let's my nostalgia goggles keep me from experiencing something again but, in a different way but that's just me. I can understand the "purist" who wants things to remain untouched but let's face it, that's an unrealistic way of thinking for remasters/enhanced editions/HD ports.
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#24
kensu

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Do you think they'll fix that bug where the game crashes if you attempt to re-enter the mortuary by the front door? I still can't believe that bug was never fixed...



#25
Tigranes

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I think I'll buy it for all platforms they put it out on....

I'm not the kind that let's my nostalgia goggles keep me from experiencing something again but, in a different way but that's just me. I can understand the "purist" who wants things to remain untouched but let's face it, that's an unrealistic way of thinking for remasters/enhanced editions/HD ports.

 

"Nostalgia" is not a magic word that lets you say "hey people who don't like new stuff is just irrational nostalgia infected". I refer you to Brecht's Parade of the Old New. As for the 'purist' argument, as someone who has enjoyed every IE game with all sorts of mods for years, that's pretty far from being a 'purist'. I could easily dismiss those who disagree with me as 'casuals' or '12 year olds', but I know that most of the time, I would be grossly wrong.

 

Instead of those meaningless labels that too often become a substitute for thinking, let's look at the facts. 

 

If you want to play PST on your phone, this remake is great news, because there's no nice way to do it right now. End of story.

 

Maybe people who don't want Beamdog to mess content-wise with PST... are thinking about the fact that (1) the game is really very good and complete the way it is; (2) a bunch of mostly unrelated people who have never made a full game of their own as a studio and has made mostly bad/mediocre additions to older games, you know, probably won't make anything great this time round.

 

PST isn't particularly odious to run on newer systems. It is highly unlikely they could restore or add new content of any acceptable quality to harmonise with existing material. Their usability and aesthetic changes in past EEs have been godawful (UI), replicating existing services done by mods, or new and positive but not that significant. 

 

Those are the reasons that lead some folks to say, stop cashing in with your half-arsed 'enhancements' and go make a real game of your own. Not some 'Nostalgia' or 'Purist' sticker stuck to my head that forces me to oppose any kind of remaster of anything by anyone.


Edited by Tigranes, 27 March 2017 - 01:46 PM.

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#26
Bartimaeus

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Do you think they'll fix that bug where the game crashes if you attempt to re-enter the mortuary by the front door? I still can't believe that bug was never fixed...

 

If previous EEs are any indication, they'll likely implement community mod fixes, so likely, yes.


Edited by Bartimaeus, 27 March 2017 - 01:48 PM.


#27
kensu

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I'm not sure how much they can conceivably add to it without running into trouble. The other two endings are invalidated in-game (the Bad Ending can't take place because the Transcendent One has intended to trap The Nameless One in the Fortress of Regrets this time around, so even if you somehow ended up back on the slab in the Mortuary, he'd still be coming after you. The Good Ending was made impossible once they decided that someone else died every time the Nameless One came back from the dead, not to mention that it's heavilty played up that severing your mortality is an abomination), so putting them back wouldn't really work.

 

The Nameless One not having the ability to become a cleric was a narrative decision and not an oversight, so changing it would go directly against the wishes of the original designers.

 

It's also impossible to add companions willy-nilly like they did in BG, since the party members are much more in-depth. They'd need to come up with matching artwork, character models, music, not to mention the problem of coming up with a character who could stand beside the other companions, all of whom are legends in CRPG lore these days. The only unimplemented party member was the Lim Lim, who was mentioned in the strategy guide, so we might get that, but he was just a novelty character.

 

Now if they could just fix Curst.... (kidding... they'd probably make it worse)



#28
algroth

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I'm actually rather curious about this: one of the biggest flaws about the game is its horrible UI and at the very least Beamdog seem to be making an effort so as to bring it to speed with the other IE releases. That would mean an improvement in and of itself. What I'm perhaps more concerned about is whatever additional content they'll make for the game, how jarring and forceful it'll appear, and how they might alter the content that is already there to reflect on their ideology. Based on my experience with the Baldur's Gates I do feel they go about this all pretty stupidly, unfortunately.

 

Realistically speaking, probably not. Most of their work on the other EEs has been of the same tier as that of modders: fan-made content, tweaks and little feature changes, and small graphical changes - much of this, besides the "fan-made content", that was literally originally done by modders (such as Erephine's 1pp graphics changes, or ToBEx's myriad of engine changes, or the Fixpack's, er, well, fixes) and just implemented them into the base game. There has been scant little done beyond this scope. As such, it's hard to expect much...unless they're importing the game into their BG2EE version of the Infinity Engine, which would likely mean getting rid of that clumsy spin-wheel right click action system and and just BG-izing things. ...Which, based on those icons on the UI in that screenshot, may very well be what they're doing. This may be the most interesting and worthwhile - perhaps - of the EEs, if so. I'm curious as to how differently the game might play in terms of handling if that is actually the route they're going - PST was certainly the most clunky of the IE games, so it'd be a novelty, at the very least, to play it in the BG2EE Infinity Engine.

 

 

Yeah, that is what I meant. I assume they're trying to "BG-ize" the UI which I reckon would be an improvement. Either way I feel this is the game where its problems can be best fixed/improved on by Beamdog, assuming they don't start smearing their jam all over the actual content of the game in turn.

 

This aside, I'm also curious if they'll try implementing new bestiary renders. I like the originals but would be willing to see their version on these too.


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#29
SonicMage117

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I think I'll buy it for all platforms they put it out on....
I'm not the kind that let's my nostalgia goggles keep me from experiencing something again but, in a different way but that's just me. I can understand the "purist" who wants things to remain untouched but let's face it, that's an unrealistic way of thinking for remasters/enhanced editions/HD ports.

 
"Nostalgia" is not a magic word that lets you say "hey people who don't like new stuff is just irrational nostalgia infected". I refer you to Brecht's Parade of the Old New. As for the 'purist' argument, as someone who has enjoyed every IE game with all sorts of mods for years, that's pretty far from being a 'purist'. I could easily dismiss those who disagree with me as 'casuals' or '12 year olds', but I know that most of the time, I would be grossly wrong.
 
Instead of those meaningless labels that too often become a substitute for thinking, let's look at the facts. 
 
If you want to play PST on your phone, this remake is great news, because there's no nice way to do it right now. End of story.
 
Maybe people who don't want Beamdog to mess content-wise with PST... are thinking about the fact that (1) the game is really very good and complete the way it is; (2) a bunch of mostly unrelated people who have never made a full game of their own as a studio and has made mostly bad/mediocre additions to older games, you know, probably won't make anything great this time round.
 
PST isn't particularly odious to run on newer systems. It is highly unlikely they could restore or add new content of any acceptable quality to harmonise with existing material. Their usability and aesthetic changes in past EEs have been godawful (UI), replicating existing services done by mods, or new and positive but not that significant. 
 
Those are the reasons that lead some folks to say, stop cashing in with your half-arsed 'enhancements' and go make a real game of your own. Not some 'Nostalgia' or 'Purist' sticker stuck to my head that forces me to oppose any kind of remaster of anything by anyone.
Actually, when it comes to gaming community, nostalgia is just that, it's a standard in which the community says "That's not how I remember it, therefore that's not how it should be". Now change something and the fans will react with "You're ruining the franchise! You're ruining my childhood!!"

Now, nostalgia on any other industry medium IS different because the communities for those act/behave differently. Perhaps it lies in the passion of the fanbase but I believe there are a few things to be learned here.

If you openly admit you're not a purist, then the comment wasn't for you. If you're modding the game with all kinds of user-created content then you're no lomger playing the original game. However, if you're just installing user-patches with fix/iron out bugs, allow HD resolutions, that is still keeping the original game to its purist form.

As far as Beamdog content, we don't really even know if there will be any and if there is, what will be the extent of it. It's all speculation and assumption right now. Regardless, again I say that my fondest memories have been with Beamdog's Enhanced Editions on the go. Not only do they make things highly accessible and easy for the user but also very high quality.

Nothing I have said is really debatable, what's debatable is how the additional content of Beamdog being good or bad and why the user feels it is so because this is a community built of IE fans, and even though people like us have grown up on IE games, there are things that people will come to disagree on.
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#30
majestic

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I'm hoping Beamdog adds the real name of TNO to the game and what his original crime was. /slits wrists.



#31
Zoraptor

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I'd agree with those saying that PST could benefit most from an EE. BG1/2 and IWD were pretty self contained and complete games in their own right, I didn't sit down after playing them and think of anything additional that could have improved them. PST- by its, heh, nature- does have a lot more flesh that could be added to things like the factions that would be an improvement rather than just 'more', plus an extra pass over Curst could improve that section and the games UI was certainly not the greatest. Aspects of the 'evil path' were also rather lacking in places.

 

Problem is that you kind of suspect that instead or in addition to that they'll be tempted to try some Question Answering (yeah, like who TNO was/ what his crime was) or end up just adding more for the sake of it and so they can justify the additional cost.


Edited by Zoraptor, 27 March 2017 - 02:09 PM.


#32
algroth

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Maybe people who don't want Beamdog to mess content-wise with PST... are thinking about the fact that (1) the game is really very good and complete the way it is; (2) a bunch of mostly unrelated people who have never made a full game of their own as a studio and has made mostly bad/mediocre additions to older games, you know, probably won't make anything great this time round.

 

 



I'm hoping Beamdog adds the real name of TNO to the game and what his original crime was. /slits wrists.

 

Yeah, these two posts here reflect my problem with Beamdog's work so far on their Enhanced Editions. I'm still unconvinced that they have paid any close attention at all to the actual content, so in a game that is so reliant on themes, on ideology and detail as Torment the risk of really blundering the experience is considerably greater. Their track record really doesn't help, leading into a game that will be far more demanding and challenging to intervene on than any of the others tried so far.



#33
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I don't mind if they keep the game more leaned to its purist form or if they add some of their own twist. When I played my first Beamdog game, I went into it with the mentailty that it wasn't going to be 100% identical but would be somehow augmented. And it was, but that didn't make it bad in my eyes. It actually made me curious to find out exactly what had been changed and how much. The more Beamdog games I played, the more I found that not every game was changed to the same extent and that it varied per vision.

It seems that some people don't trust Beamdog, but is it because Beamdog changed stuff without warning the community/fanbase of the franchise, or is it because they poorly did stuff and made poor decisions?

Judging by the overall reviews and reception that Beamdog has gotten, maybe they're not so bad after all (yes I'm looking up Beamdog stuff for the heck of it).

#34
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I'd agree with those saying that PST could benefit most from an EE. BG1/2 and IWD were pretty self contained and complete games in their own right, I didn't sit down after playing them and think of anything additional that could have improved them. PST- by its, heh, nature- does have a lot more flesh that could be added to things like the factions that would be an improvement rather than just 'more', plus an extra pass over Curst could improve that section and the games UI was certainly not the greatest. Aspects of the 'evil path' were also rather lacking in places.

 

Curst I think is definitely the place where more content could be added, but I don't think the factions need work. I don't think the factions are there to provide additional content but rather as additional facets and points of view to some of the central themes of the game. In this regard I can't say they need more 'fleshing out', I think they are portrayed richly enough as is. Moreover I'm not convinced of yet that anything Beamdog will add in these fronts would amount to more than just 'more'. I guess we'll have to see, ultimately...



#35
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I would be down for this.

the BGEE 1 and 2 were pretty solid. I think they could pull this off.


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#36
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Holding out hope that it means that an Icewind Dale II: EE that actually has proper widescreen support is on the horizon.



#37
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Holding out hope that it means that an Icewind Dale II: EE that actually has proper widescreen support is on the horizon.


I wish they would have done this before even looking at PST.

#38
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Holding out hope that it means that an Icewind Dale II: EE that actually has proper widescreen support is on the horizon.

I wouldn't hold my breath...

 

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#39
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I think I'll buy it for all platforms they put it out on....
I'm not the kind that let's my nostalgia goggles keep me from experiencing something again but, in a different way but that's just me. I can understand the "purist" who wants things to remain untouched but let's face it, that's an unrealistic way of thinking for remasters/enhanced editions/HD ports.

 
"Nostalgia" is not a magic word that lets you say "hey people who don't like new stuff is just irrational nostalgia infected". I refer you to Brecht's Parade of the Old New. As for the 'purist' argument, as someone who has enjoyed every IE game with all sorts of mods for years, that's pretty far from being a 'purist'. I could easily dismiss those who disagree with me as 'casuals' or '12 year olds', but I know that most of the time, I would be grossly wrong.
 
Instead of those meaningless labels that too often become a substitute for thinking, let's look at the facts. 
 
If you want to play PST on your phone, this remake is great news, because there's no nice way to do it right now. End of story.
 
Maybe people who don't want Beamdog to mess content-wise with PST... are thinking about the fact that (1) the game is really very good and complete the way it is; (2) a bunch of mostly unrelated people who have never made a full game of their own as a studio and has made mostly bad/mediocre additions to older games, you know, probably won't make anything great this time round.
 
PST isn't particularly odious to run on newer systems. It is highly unlikely they could restore or add new content of any acceptable quality to harmonise with existing material. Their usability and aesthetic changes in past EEs have been godawful (UI), replicating existing services done by mods, or new and positive but not that significant. 
 
Those are the reasons that lead some folks to say, stop cashing in with your half-arsed 'enhancements' and go make a real game of your own. Not some 'Nostalgia' or 'Purist' sticker stuck to my head that forces me to oppose any kind of remaster of anything by anyone.
Actually, when it comes to gaming community, nostalgia is just that, it's a standard in which the community says "That's not how I remember it, therefore that's not how it should be". Now change something and the fans will react with "You're ruining the franchise! You're ruining my childhood!!"

Now, nostalgia on any other industry medium IS different because the communities for those act/behave differently. Perhaps it lies in the passion of the fanbase but I believe there are a few things to be learned here.

If you openly admit you're not a purist, then the comment wasn't for you. If you're modding the game with all kinds of user-created content then you're no lomger playing the original game. However, if you're just installing user-patches with fix/iron out bugs, allow HD resolutions, that is still keeping the original game to its purist form.

As far as Beamdog content, we don't really even know if there will be any and if there is, what will be the extent of it. It's all speculation and assumption right now. Regardless, again I say that my fondest memories have been with Beamdog's Enhanced Editions on the go. Not only do they make things highly accessible and easy for the user but also very high quality.

Nothing I have said is really debatable, what's debatable is how the additional content of Beamdog being good or bad and why the user feels it is so because this is a community built of IE fans, and even though people like us have grown up on IE games, there are things that people will come to disagree on.

 

 

As someone who very much loves old games, I dispute your broad brush declaration of what those communities are like. They sound like an outsider's dismissal saying "eh these guys are just nostalgic." Too many times people project their own opinions and experiences to say things like "you might think PST is perfect but if you played it now you'd see it is very dated"... forgetting that many such people like old games because they continue to play them today.

 

I think I can make an intelligent estimate about Beamdog's 'enhancements' based on the 3 EEs they've already released, none of which I thought was even close to worth existing. As with all estimates, they can be wrong, but I hardly think this is me making something up out of thin air.

 

I don't think you can tell me what parts of your statement is or isn't debatable. I think your casual throaway remarks about nostalgia and purist, as I said before, are pointless labelling that often gets in the way of actually using our brains to sort out the particularities of a specific situation. 


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#40
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Haha, I didn't realize how loathed beamdog is around here. Personally, I enjoyed IWD EE, and having never played the original torment (I've tried before, but it kept crashing on my modern PC), I would be happy to buy this as well.

 

But did I want IWDII EE more? Yeah, I kinda did.


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