124 replies to this topic

[Boeroer]

Well you had a big part in creating "this crap". I find it interesting enough to read though - no insulting or aggression so far. That's a good thing, even if we disagree completely and you try to evade my challenge.

A quite civilized discussion for such an emotional (or so it seems) topic. So it's all cool.

I could do a video. Why not? I will come up with something. Maybe it will take some time because today is the day where they start to build my new house and I'm pretty sure there's a lot of hard, back-aching work waiting for me...

Edited by Boeroer, 19 March 2017 - 10:04 PM.

[Nail]

Let's duel!

 

This would be awesome, but it seems Obsidian is not interested in such feature neither PoE I, nor PoE II: Deadfire

[Boeroer]

I meant it in a way than one tries to solve a given encounter better than the other player.

It would be great if OBS would give us a kind of PvP arena in PoE2. Or maybe a mod is possible, don't know.

[Phenomenum]

Too many variables - party composition, party level, equipment and weapons.
You may use weapons end equipment, which other player never finds - so it already not fair competition.
One proper way - is to do it from one save.

[Phenomenum]

If we comparing tactical abilities of players and knowlege of game mechanics, anyway...

[BALONEYPWNY]

The creator of this topic wrote:
"Chanters suck" OK, I am closing the page now.

Oh c'mon man, Rangers only have Twinned Arrow and he doesn't like Monks, therefore they're the worst class.

How can you argue against such durganized reasoning?

[Boeroer]

The best way would be to use the console. Who wants to play through the game every time he wants to try out a new build idea in a certain encounter?

All my build ideas are tested with tje console first and if they seem to be good I will put them through the whole game - not the other way round.

And a proper way would be to define a ruleset. Else you couldn't compare properly. But if you want to compare single target damage or overall damage - which are pretty narrow things - you can easily define some simple rules and try it out. And if we see afterwards that it wasn't fair game we could still adapt the rules.

Edited by Boeroer, 20 March 2017 - 10:46 AM.

[Gorgon]

Hello, I'm a mod. Just here to say that I prefer the light touch and as far as I can see people are still talking about class builds. 

[Boeroer]

"Durganized reasoning" - I have to write that one down into my book of awesome phrases.

[Phenomenum]

"And a proper way would be to define a ruleset. " - ok, i'm in. Let's start from encounter and level 16? Which encounter? Naired? Level 16 will be overpowered in any case, i prefer 13.

[Hariwulf]

The most embarrasing thing for a rogue is that a spiritshifted druid outperforms him in single target damage without the need of Sneak Attack and Deathblows AND can cast awesome stuff on top of that. A monk with 10 wounds also can compete in single target CC & damage but has high endurance/health/deflection and can do AoE stuff like Torment's Reach and even has the most awesome ranged weapon there is.

I concord.

I swapped my ranger with a monk (call it Crusader/ Valkyrie). Max Might and Per. Heavy/ Medium armor (according lvl and quality). Sword and board (and a side 2 handed for high DR enemies).

Oh boy...the FUN I am having with it!!! It's a marvel to watch!

[Boeroer]

A monk with a shield is unusual but cool.

Once you find Badgradr's Barricade please give it to the monk and try if it still procs Thrust of Tattered Veils with the cone of Torment's Reach, will you? It used to be very nice.

Oh - and the shield Aila Braccia is very nice for a monk who also has the missile reflection ability. Try it out against Lagufaeth! You will reflect every graze and a lot of misses. They will paralyze themselves and also Cleansing Flames of Thaos and Lagufaeth Broodmothers will be reflected.

[Boeroer]

"And a proper way would be to define a ruleset. " - ok, i'm in. Let's start from encounter and level 16? Which encounter? Naired? Level 16 will be overpowered in any case, i prefer 13.

I would say lvl 16 because spellcasters might want to use all spell levels.
Picking a level in between might be tricky because some abilities are peaks of power (like Heart of Fury, Sacred Immolation, Deathblows and so on) and picking the max level would be the easiest way to determine every class build is fully developed. If we wanted to be superthorough we could do encounters at lvl 4, 8 and 16 for example. But you can already see that this would be bad for chanters. Maybe 5, 9 and 16 - would be bad for rogues... And the finer the grid the more work and fuzz. It's tricky. So I would suggest lvl 16 - seems to be the most easiest way.

Nalrend encounter has a TON of endurance to reduce, a lot of damage and ACC and low defenses. It favours sturdy builds with high damage potential but not too high accuracy (like Dragon Thrashed chanter for example). But I still like it. Just saying. It's my number one testing encounter for builds, so maybe that's not fair.

[firkraag888]

 

"And a proper way would be to define a ruleset. " - ok, i'm in. Let's start from encounter and level 16? Which encounter? Naired? Level 16 will be overpowered in any case, i prefer 13.

I would say lvl 16 because spellcasters might want to use all spell levels.
Picking a level in between might be tricky because some abilities are peaks of power (like Heart of Fury, Sacred Immolation, Deathblows and so on) and picking the max level would be the easiest way to determine every class build is fully developed. If we wanted to be superthorough we could do encounters at lvl 4, 8 and 16 for example. But you can already see that this would be bad for chanters. Maybe 5, 9 and 16 - would be bad for rogues... And the finer the grid the more work and fuzz. It's tricky. So I would suggest lvl 16 - seems to be the most easiest way.

Nalrend encounter has a TON of endurance to reduce, a lot of damage and ACC and low defenses. It favours sturdy builds with high damage potential but not too high accuracy (like Dragon Thrashed chanter for example). But I still like it. Just saying. It's my number one testing encounter for builds, so maybe that's not fair.

 

The Banter has been thoroughly enjoyable but why don't we make it slightly more on topic......or is that off topic........im confused.

 

What do you @Boeroer think is the most powerful build you can possibly build in the the game.

 

Mine is the fire priest.

 

and I don't want any what about this or that just straight out give me your most powerful build for overall Power. Im talking Drizzt or Elminster style

[Hariwulf]

A monk with a shield is unusual but cool.

Once you find Badgradr's Barricade please give it to the monk and try if it still procs Thrust of Tattered Veils with the cone of Torment's Reach, will you? It used to be very nice.

Oh - and the shield Aila Braccia is very nice for a monk who also has the missile reflection ability. Try it out against Lagufaeth! You will reflect every graze and a lot of misses. They will paralyze themselves and also Cleansing Flames of Thaos and Lagufaeth Broodmothers will be reflected.

 

Dunno what would do without you. Thanks!

Yeah, this build is awesome for disable, damage and a bit of CC. It "leads" the tide of the battle much more than other melee dedicated classes. Disengage and movement are awesome to get where there is need, and with Passives etc, you crit like a beast!

 

Question: what you deem as most effective between dual wield and 2-handed as side option?

EDIT: I ask because I got a bit inspired by that dual bittercut build....... :D

 

http://images.akamai...F2278B77C495FF/

 

http://images.akamai...70A773BC39B2C8/

 

Trying this with a Retailate armor, Barricade shield and a good saber.

I. EXPLODE. PEOPLE.

Edited by Hariwulf, 21 March 2017 - 09:45 AM.

[Phenomenum]

 

"And a proper way would be to define a ruleset. " - ok, i'm in. Let's start from encounter and level 16? Which encounter? Naired? Level 16 will be overpowered in any case, i prefer 13.

I would say lvl 16 because spellcasters might want to use all spell levels.
Picking a level in between might be tricky because some abilities are peaks of power (like Heart of Fury, Sacred Immolation, Deathblows and so on) and picking the max level would be the easiest way to determine every class build is fully developed. If we wanted to be superthorough we could do encounters at lvl 4, 8 and 16 for example. But you can already see that this would be bad for chanters. Maybe 5, 9 and 16 - would be bad for rogues... And the finer the grid the more work and fuzz. It's tricky. So I would suggest lvl 16 - seems to be the most easiest way.

Nalrend encounter has a TON of endurance to reduce, a lot of damage and ACC and low defenses. It favours sturdy builds with high damage potential but not too high accuracy (like Dragon Thrashed chanter for example). But I still like it. Just saying. It's my number one testing encounter for builds, so maybe that's not fair.

 

Ok, maybe you right. So, what rules and win conditions? Maybe time - the winner is one, who defeat Nalrend gang faster?
And, just sayin' - if we play one encouter then every caster class (exept cipher, maybe) will outdamage any of melee build, blowing in all high level spells, becose no need to bother about camping supplies.

Edited by Phenomenum, 21 March 2017 - 04:55 AM.

[Phenomenum]

In all my games, for example, Aloth always doing more crits than the others, becose AoE spells.

[Elric Galad]

The single most powerful build of the game is most likely Fire Priest indeed. I would argue that a support oriented (very high Int) fire priest with fire damages as backup is probably optimal: priest buffs are ridicuously powerful and Int is also nice for AoE and Duration of damage spells. Priest isn't less versatile than wizzard. It's just Party Buffs and Damages vs Crowd Control and Damages.

Eothas priest is my favorite. Weapon talent is crap but weapons are unnecessary for priest anyway. Symbol of Eothas is one the best spell of the game and it does fire damages which combines nicely with Scion of Flames.


Wizzard, preferrably with high accuracy and decent might, is also incredibly good.

Then comes the Thunder Cat.

Edited by Elric Galad, 21 March 2017 - 10:32 AM.

[Boeroer]

I would also say that the max MIG & INT priest is the most powerful build. Doesn't even need to be "fire priest" - which basically just means picking Scion of Flame. But that is the best pick if you want an elemental booster talent of course.

[Boeroer]

"And a proper way would be to define a ruleset. " - ok, i'm in. Let's start from encounter and level 16? Which encounter? Naired? Level 16 will be overpowered in any case, i prefer 13.

I would say lvl 16 because spellcasters might want to use all spell levels.
Picking a level in between might be tricky because some abilities are peaks of power (like Heart of Fury, Sacred Immolation, Deathblows and so on) and picking the max level would be the easiest way to determine every class build is fully developed. If we wanted to be superthorough we could do encounters at lvl 4, 8 and 16 for example. But you can already see that this would be bad for chanters. Maybe 5, 9 and 16 - would be bad for rogues... And the finer the grid the more work and fuzz. It's tricky. So I would suggest lvl 16 - seems to be the most easiest way.

Nalrend encounter has a TON of endurance to reduce, a lot of damage and ACC and low defenses. It favours sturdy builds with high damage potential but not too high accuracy (like Dragon Thrashed chanter for example). But I still like it. Just saying. It's my number one testing encounter for builds, so maybe that's not fair.

Ok, maybe you right. So, what rules and win conditions? Maybe time - the winner is one, who defeat Nalrend gang faster?
And, just sayin' - if we play one encouter then every caster class (exept cipher, maybe) will outdamage any of melee build, blowing in all high level spells, becose no need to bother about camping supplies.

Yeah - true. But that's why they are considered to be the most powerful classes in the first place.