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# THE FINAL MOST OVERPOWERED CLASS (BUILD) THREAD

124 replies to this topic

### #41 Livegood118 Posted 19 March 2017 - 05:44 AM

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Honestly this thread is starting to feel like a troll/honey pot.

Views of people with extensive experience of the game who provided mathematics/experience to support their arguments are just being misrepresented.

### #42 Phenomenum Posted 19 March 2017 - 06:12 AM

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Hey, i am the one who like rogues, but i agree they aren't n.1 single target DPS, becose druids, yes. The answer is simple and it's all about math - highest damage for rogue crits with anihilating sabres (without priest buffs) and sneak attack/deadblows never be more than 95. This is fact.
Let's count:
Sabre have base dmg 11-16 (let's count highest possible hit as 16) and our might = 20.
Sooo... 16 + 20% (from sabers) + 30% (from might) + 150% (sneak attack + deathblows) + 45% (suberb weapon) + 110% (from crit with annihilation, domenels ability and durgan steel) + 4 dmg from Deep Wounds ability = 355% > 16 + 355% = 72,8. Then we add 25% lash on top of this and Deep Wounds (4 dmg) = 95. That's all. Highest possible gamage from regular attacks - you can't do anything else. Every other damage abilities like Backstab is limited.
P.S. may be i forgot something to calculate?
Druid lands crits far more than 120 dmg only from his native abilities. No sense to argue with this.

### #43 Phenomenum Posted 19 March 2017 - 06:18 AM

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"Take a walk to the Abbey or Cradgholt and tell me if your rogue can manage to stay alive more than 15 seconds." - you just don't know how to play for rogue.
I had completed the Cragshold on level 12, on POTD with rogue as main char without being knockout. All knockout for rogue is oneshots from casters between 1-8 levels. After 8 level Rogue have enough endurance to survive one critical hit.

### #44 Phenomenum Posted 19 March 2017 - 06:21 AM

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^^^^^
You do realise you are trying that to convince me that a rogue built for inflicting critical hits dual weilding any 2 of those 3 weapons listed above with on crit effects is one of the weakest builds in the game?
You cant be serious.

Sad but true. Every caster can AoE stun a bunch of enemies for 15+ sec. ( some of them for 30+ sec.) with one spell. Rogue can stun just one target.

### #45 Phenomenum Posted 19 March 2017 - 06:24 AM

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To be clear - i love rogues, i know how to play very effective with them, but i agree it's one of weakest class in the game.

### #46 indika_tates Posted 19 March 2017 - 06:29 AM

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"Take a walk to the Abbey or Cradgholt and tell me if your rogue can manage to stay alive more than 15 seconds." - you just don't know how to play for rogue.
I had completed the Cragshold on level 12, on POTD with rogue as main char without being knockout. All knockout for rogue is oneshots from casters between 1-8 levels. After 8 level Rogue have enough endurance to survive one critical hit.

Then I don't know how to play a rogue. It would be nice if someone post a guide about how to develop it, talents, equipment, party composition, battle tactics and so on. I'm talking about the melee ones, of course. Because it's hard to believe how a front-line 40 deflection character can manage to survive later on with 110 accuracy foes that can crit your character for 80% of your endurance and 50% of your health.

### #47 Phenomenum Posted 19 March 2017 - 06:41 AM

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Hmm... a buch of guides on this forum. Play a rogue it's not about stats and abilities - more about tactic, positioning and supporting their efforts from rest of your team. Good to have in team as many CC as possible - wizard, cypher.
It hard ro explain - maybe you can find some videos on YouTube that show the rogue playstyle... I'll take a look myself and post, if i find something. Or, maybe i can make a video, if i did't find anything.

Edited by Phenomenum, 19 March 2017 - 06:44 AM.

### #48 firkraag888 Posted 19 March 2017 - 07:24 AM

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"Take a walk to the Abbey or Cradgholt and tell me if your rogue can manage to stay alive more than 15 seconds." - you just don't know how to play for rogue.
I had completed the Cragshold on level 12, on POTD with rogue as main char without being knockout. All knockout for rogue is oneshots from casters between 1-8 levels. After 8 level Rogue have enough endurance to survive one critical hit.

Then I don't know how to play a rogue. It would be nice if someone post a guide about how to develop it, talents, equipment, party composition, battle tactics and so on. I'm talking about the melee ones, of course. Because it's hard to believe how a front-line 40 deflection character can manage to survive later on with 110 accuracy foes that can crit your character for 80% of your endurance and 50% of your health.
You can build a rogue more tankier then a fighter or paladin

Moon goodlike
Max CON and MIGHT (max con is important)
Dual wield draining weapons (the axe from endless paths is best)
Belt of bountiful healing (or the amulet)
Boots of consecrated ground

With your huge health pool that is constantly getting topped up from your draining weapons that are doing enormous damage and enhanced by the belt you will be very tanky. High might will also boost all of your healing including draining, boots and moon godlike aura.

A bit to tanky actually , when I built this rogue I re- rolled him around level 10 because it was almost impossible to die and I felt it was a waste not concentrating the build on doing more damage.

No need to position correctly or shadow beyond. Just full on charge anyone head on and they will all die around you while you suck the life out them.

Edited by firkraag888, 19 March 2017 - 07:47 AM.

### #49 IamNOOB Posted 19 March 2017 - 07:45 AM

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The creator of this topic wrote:
"Chanters suck" OK, I am closing the page now.

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### #50 Phenomenum Posted 19 March 2017 - 09:29 AM

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"Take a walk to the Abbey or Cradgholt and tell me if your rogue can manage to stay alive more than 15 seconds." - you just don't know how to play for rogue.
I had completed the Cragshold on level 12, on POTD with rogue as main char without being knockout. All knockout for rogue is oneshots from casters between 1-8 levels. After 8 level Rogue have enough endurance to survive one critical hit.

Then I don't know how to play a rogue. It would be nice if someone post a guide about how to develop it, talents, equipment, party composition, battle tactics and so on. I'm talking about the melee ones, of course. Because it's hard to believe how a front-line 40 deflection character can manage to survive later on with 110 accuracy foes that can crit your character for 80% of your endurance and 50% of your health.

I've recorded video.

I was in a hurry, and this is not a perfect battle (thing got messy when spirit and siren showed up), but it's okay, becose we all making some mistakes - i desided to not replay it. In my video rogue is only lvl 10, so no Deathblows, which is sighificantly faster kills enemies.

So the main tactic is: your casters disables backrow casters/ranged mobs, then rogue jump in and take them out; in the meantime your tanks and casters hold the line and do damage for some heavy armored mobs. When rogue's job done, he returns to team and flanking rest of enemies, which already heavily injured.
If you watch video attentively, you see - rogue has killed 5 enemies and no one barely touched her.

Oh, forgot about video, here it is:
P.S. Sorry for quality, i made it for the first time.

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### #51 Boeroer Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:39 AM

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You can build a rogue more tankier then a fighter or paladin.

Good joke. You can build him tanky enough, that's true. Another nice approach is to use Badgradr's Barricade and have both high deflection and reflex as well as good damage. But do the same with any other class, especially fighter or paladin, and it's more tanky. So your statement is not true.

By the way if you build and play your rogue that way you will have to rest frequently because of low health (not endurance).
Rogues have one of the crappiest health pool (I seriously don't know why). Maybe you meant endurance - but that' also bad compared to most other classes.

And even if the rogue was more sturdy he would still be the weakest class overall. Sure, running around with dual disabling weapons can be fun - but it's not as much fun (in my opinion) as watching a barb doing the same thing to a while crowd. Rogues can't do anything besides single target damage and maybe single stunlocking. Nothing else - and that's just not good enough on PoTD - after the ealy game - compared to the things that ALL other classes can bring to the table. So that's why I say rogues are the weakest class. Most other classes can be build in a way that they kill a bunch of enemies faster than a rogue. And those who can't can do something else like doing better CC or giving great support.

You are still not willing to show me a screenshot or a video of a rogue doing some great stuff I take it. As I said: do Nalrend or his gang in front of the cave with a rogue and then I'll do the same with another class of my choice. Or choose another encounter, doesn't really matter.

Edited by Boeroer, 19 March 2017 - 10:43 AM.

### #52 indika_tates Posted 19 March 2017 - 11:16 AM

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A burst of summer flame of Hiravias (level 2 spell vs reflex) against the paralized mobs would have done more damage than that rogue in 30s of fighting. I estimated about 300 damage vs vessels more or less.  This is a class I ever tried to play because I find rogues interesting. And you can play with a rogue MC on POTD but everything you can do with a Rogue there is another class that do it better. I'm with Boeroer. A spiritshift druid outdamage a deathblow one by a far margin. You can have the tankiest rogue of the game but with the current health pool you can't fight more than 2/2.5x your endurance.

You can notice that in the video there is a large percentage of your rogue damage being eaten by vessels DR. The more you advance in the game, the higher the DR of the foes then less effective your dual wield becomes. If one of the battery's Sirens engage your Rogue is a guaranteed knockout as happened with Aloth.I hope they fix Rogues for POE2, because at the moment there is no incentive to choose this class, sadly.

Edited by indika_tates, 19 March 2017 - 11:18 AM.

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### #53 Boeroer Posted 19 March 2017 - 11:45 AM

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Josh said that PoE2 rogues will be sturdier. He meant the "vanilla" version. And the new subclass, the Assassin, will focus on single target damage and be more fragile than the normal PoE2 rogue - sounds like the PoE1 rogue. Maybe we will even see a very tough subclass, like a Pit Fighter or something like that - who knows. Or a very nimble thief subclass with evasion and stuff.
I like that. That way you can also play something like a burly doorman rogue or a tough bodyguard rogue without the drawbacks (low edurance, health an deflection) all the PoE1 rogues have. I generally like rogue classes a lot. But on PoE1 they are a bit too boring (one trick pony) and too tedious to play as far as I'm concerned. Doesn't have to be the case for other players though.

Josh also said there will be pickpocketing and also reverse pickpockting. Now that would be a reason to bring a rogue in every playthrough even if they are not no. 1 single target damage dealer (or whatever they are supposed to be good at). I'm looking forward to Bronteru.

Edited by Boeroer, 19 March 2017 - 11:47 AM.

### #54 Phenomenum Posted 19 March 2017 - 11:56 AM

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Hey, i wrote earlier that i agree with Boeroer and others about Rogue. More than that, i wrote calculations about maximum possible rogue damage which is 95 with Deadblows, Crit and Superb weapon. And about druid damage too. No arguments here. See my previous posts in this tread.
Your question was "how manage rogue to survive"? I showed you example. Short answer - attack only disabled enemies, prefer light armored ones.
About my video - as i wrote, there is only 10 level, so no Deadblows. But if they were exist, the damage increase only by 11-16 (100% of base damage).
About engaging by top enemy DD, like Siren - rogue have Hide in Shadows, it's the miracle "Oh, ****" ability.

Edited by Phenomenum, 19 March 2017 - 11:57 AM.

### #55 Phenomenum Posted 19 March 2017 - 12:06 PM

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Another thing - after i've done my playtrough with druid, i desided to make a rogue for last playtrough and transfer to Deadfire, but i forgot how to manage with rogue and he start to die very often. It's very strange, tricky class.

### #56 Boeroer Posted 19 March 2017 - 12:13 PM

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Hehe - I started a rogue for the same reason (and because nostalgia - it was my first MC class in PoE)... and at lvl 8 I restarted with a monk. Can't tell you in words how much easier and more fun it is with a monk - if you like monks that is.

### #57 Natures Bounty Posted 19 March 2017 - 12:38 PM

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If you keep having this argument with people on this forum (which you have admitted above) then maybe people have different opinions other then yours and obvisouly someone is wrong and someone is right. Who cares. Me (and others) have built rogues that work very well.

I think nobody stated that rogues are not viable to play and no one stated that they cannot be fun to play. You can totally solo the game with a rogue.

If you like them, I think it says something good about you, as you seemingly like playing a class that most others find more difficult than other classes. And there is also a lot of truth to that:

Rogues do not provide a lot of AoE damage, AoE CC, or powerful self-buffs, but those are more important aspects to determine the power of a class than single-target-dps or single-target-CC provided by a weapon. On PotD, there are so many foes that you have to beat - that's just easier if you can CC and damage several foes simultaneously.

Don't get me wrong: If you love rogues, that's a good thing, please continue to do that. But if you really believe they are more powerful than chanters, ciphers, monks etc. you have to show that on a video, because most people here would not believe that.

@ Boeroer: Or could you not just start the challenge by yourself and post a video? I'm very curious to see you play and learn from it ;-)

### #58 Phenomenum Posted 19 March 2017 - 12:59 PM

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Hehe - I started a rogue for the same reason (and because nostalgia - it was my first MC class in PoE)... and at lvl 8 I restarted with a monk. Can't tell you in words how much easier and more fun it is with a monk - if you like monks that is.

I'm curious about monk, but it's a Deep Dark Forest for me (figure of speech, of course) - never understand how to handle with this guys. Monk abilities seems far more versatile and flexible than rogues, but Zahua always die in the middle of fight, surrounded by foes, becose i always want create a brave tanky kung-fu panda

### #59 QuiteGoneJin Posted 19 March 2017 - 03:10 PM

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I like how the talk about most OP classes went from focusing on them (Wiz/Druid/Priest) to arguing over silly already proven facts about the worst class in the game.

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### #60 firkraag888 Posted 19 March 2017 - 07:04 PM

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yeah im going to try and get a mod to clean it up.

people don't want to read this crap

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