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I never finished Pillars of Eternity.


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#361
Messier-31

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There is nothing "strange" about the "missing demons and other entities from Hell". It's a direct consequence of the setting's theology. The souls of the dead are recycled to the wheel, this is established as fact, no belief. No one goes to Heaven or Hell, no matter how good or bad they have been, or which gods they worship. With no Hell there are no demons to punish the wicked. They simply do not exist in this setting.

 

If any "outsiders" showed up in this setting they would be aliens from another planet, not demons out of Hell.

 

Well, there is something called "Hel" though (with one "L"), but no-one yet knows for sure what it is. It supposedly is beyond the Shroud.

 

https://pbs.twimg.co...AGnWg.jpg:large


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#362
Fardragon

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If they are drawing on mythology "Hel" is a person, not a place.



#363
tinysalamander

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If they are drawing on mythology "Hel" is a person, not a place.

Realm’s name is the same, AFAIR.



#364
Ninjamestari

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@Ninja, I think we're really far from having no sense. I never felt it that way in my playthroughs, until it was brought up here, on the forums. Obsidians approach lorewise has sense in the world they created, because of this whole soul reasons (apparently). As long as there is a diversity between characters with different stats this is not a big issue to me, or a issue at all.

 

It has an *illusion* of sense, until you realize that the world they created is actually aiming for high realism in the renaissance setting. That's one reason this soul-based stats stick out like a sore thumb. For example, why would body size matter for a character's might, and thus his ability to perform feats of strength? If Might if the property of the soul and not the body, then an Ogre shouldn't necessarily be any stronger than an orlan with a strong soul, which would mean that ogres should've effectively gone extinct long ago due to not having any real benefits for their larger bodies. If the metaphysical reality is more important than the physical reality, why do people even bother with technology? The soul-stat-system makes zero sense in the context of the world they created and it breaks the immersion, it doesn't add to it.


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#365
anameforobsidian

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@Ninja, I think we're really far from having no sense. I never felt it that way in my playthroughs, until it was brought up here, on the forums. Obsidians approach lorewise has sense in the world they created, because of this whole soul reasons (apparently). As long as there is a diversity between characters with different stats this is not a big issue to me, or a issue at all.

 

It has an *illusion* of sense, until you realize that the world they created is actually aiming for high realism in the renaissance setting. That's one reason this soul-based stats stick out like a sore thumb. For example, why would body size matter for a character's might, and thus his ability to perform feats of strength? If Might if the property of the soul and not the body, then an Ogre shouldn't necessarily be any stronger than an orlan with a strong soul, which would mean that ogres should've effectively gone extinct long ago due to not having any real benefits for their larger bodies. If the metaphysical reality is more important than the physical reality, why do people even bother with technology? The soul-stat-system makes zero sense in the context of the world they created and it breaks the immersion, it doesn't add to it.

 

 

Three things:

 

Isn't there already a thread on stats?

Physics still works in this world.  Metaphysics just also work.

Strong souls in general are fairly rare, and get increasingly so as time passes.



#366
Ninjamestari

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Three things:

 

Isn't there already a thread on stats?

Physics still works in this world.  Metaphysics just also work.

Strong souls in general are fairly rare, and get increasingly so as time passes.

 

 

1) Yes. Probably several, and they're being discussed in several threads that are not about stats. The current stats thread is quite a bit younger than the discussion on stats on this one.

2) No they don't, as your body in this world doesn't have a bearing on the strength of your muscles, clearly physics no longer function. The moment you declare that strength is the property of ones soul and not ones body, you abandon natural physics quite completely. Worse, physical strength doesn't even appear to exist in this world, and since the story and the setting do not reflect on the implications of that a single moment tells that this bit of 'lore' was made for the singular reason of justifying the ridiculous stat-system, not the other way around.

3) The "strong souls are rare" and "souls get reborn weaker" is an interesting story-concept, but has absolutely nothing to do with the character stats.


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#367
Baltic

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Isn't that always an isssue with magic?

#368
zimcub

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Isn't that always an isssue with magic?

Not if strength actually exists without magic


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#369
Baltic

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Isn't that always an isssue with magic?

Not if strength actually exists without magic
Which it does.

#370
zimcub

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No it doesn't 


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#371
Baltic

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In the might stat they come together, sure but we don't know if there's a lore friendly reason for that and the way it's presented is not that your physical strength is decided by your soul.

#372
Ninjamestari

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Maybe not, but the way they presented the whole stat system when it was made was all about your soul determining your stats. Also, having the two together is just moronic, as it kills the 'feeble but powerful' archetype so many of us are so fond of. It doesn't matter how you twist the issue, the end result is, always has been and always will be that the way the Might stat works is detrimental to the game as a whole, and the people who defend it tend to do so out of some misguided sense of loyalty rather than any insight on the supposed benefits of the system. I have never ever heard anyone complain that STR should also represent spiritual power in D&D, and the whole notion is just damn ludicrous. Physical strength is a fundamental part of what makes a person who they are, and not having a stat to represent it properly is simply a bad idea.


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#373
Baltic

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What they may have been going for with might, I'm not saying it's a good idea, is that either you're physically strong or because you're good at magic you can increase your physical strength that way for intimidation and getting rid of obstacles. I don't know.




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