Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Politics 2017 part 4


  • Please log in to reply
450 replies to this topic

#41
Elerond

Elerond

    One of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 2601 posts
  • Location:Finland
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

http://www.usatoday....email/98637782/

Pence used personal email for state business — and was hacked

 

Vice President Mike Pence routinely used a private email account to conduct public business as governor of Indiana, at times discussing sensitive matters and homeland security issues.

 

Emails released to The Indianapolis Star, part of the USA TODAY Network, in response to a public records request show Pence communicated via his personal AOL account with top advisers on topics ranging from security gates at the governor’s residence to the state’s response to terror attacks across the globe. In one email, Pence’s top state homeland security adviser relayed an update from the FBI regarding the arrests of several men on federal terror-related charges.

 

 

fSUktbE.png


  • Hurlshot, ShadySands and Azdeus like this

#42
Guard Dog

Guard Dog

    (5) Thaumaturgist

  • Members
  • 542 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer

Irony... definitely my favorite form of humor!


  • Azdeus and Chilloutman like this

#43
Enoch

Enoch

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2595 posts
  • Location:Other Planes of There
  • Pillars of Eternity Gold Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer

And, perhaps most damning of all, that email address was @AOL.com.  (Seriously!)


Edited by Enoch, 02 March 2017 - 07:57 PM.

  • Pidesco likes this

#44
Guard Dog

Guard Dog

    (5) Thaumaturgist

  • Members
  • 542 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer

In other news gun manufactuer stocks are down 5% since Trump took office. Now that the fear of draconian gun control has been lifted folks are not racing out to arm themselves... more than they were before 2008 anyway. I was far less worried about that kind of thing after the Republicans took over the House in 2010. And Hillary losing is a big win because any justice she seated would likely have been amenable to reversing the Heller decision.



#45
Zoraptor

Zoraptor

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2127 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Is anyone really surprised that Pence uses AOL? Hardly seems equivalent in any way to Hillary's situation.


  • Wrath of Dagon likes this

#46
Sharp_one

Sharp_one

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 664 posts
  • Location:Poland

Did US citizens freedom not already suffer enough from this fight against "Islam"? Did you really learn nothing from your fight against "communism"?


Ironic that a guy living in a country existing in present shape solely because the west won the cold war criticize the "fight against communism".

#47
BruceVC

BruceVC

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 4326 posts
  • Location:Johannesburg, South Africa
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

Did US citizens freedom not already suffer enough from this fight against "Islam"? Did you really learn nothing from your fight against "communism"?

Well the West won the ideological war against  Communism and it will obviously win the war against Islamic extremism....what lesson should we learn?



#48
Malcador

Malcador

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 6740 posts
  • Location:Someplace in Canada
  • Xbox Gamertag:Pft, consoles.
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

Is anyone really surprised that Pence uses AOL? Hardly seems equivalent in any way to Hillary's situation.


Well could argue it is, external server is as bad as your own. Is a fun situation for types like Pence harping on about integrity or justice or whatever moralizing hill they want to shoot from.

#49
Hurlshot

Hurlshot

    Obsidian Order Hockey Puck

  • Members
  • 8368 posts
  • Location:Gilroy, CA
  • Xbox Gamertag:Hurlshot
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

I still get the idea that Pence and Clinton are simply old people with no real grasp of technology, and they are just doing what someone tells them to do, but also being stubborn about it.  :p


  • redneckdevil likes this

#50
Ben No.3

Ben No.3

    (5) Thaumaturgist

  • Members
  • 523 posts
  • Location:Frankfurt a. M., Germany

Did US citizens freedom not already suffer enough from this fight against "Islam"? Did you really learn nothing from your fight against "communism"?

Well the West won the ideological war against Communism and it will obviously win the war against Islamic extremism....what lesson should we learn?
Essentially, what it means for freedom and freedom of speech. The Cold War took away everyone's opinion who was himself a communist or just somewhat around that spectrum in the name of security and te American way. Black List and all, does that ring a bell?
Now, it takes on different forms with Islam, namely the constant surveillance. But in essence, it is the exact same thing all over again.

Another thing is that the ideologies in question become senselessly defied in pure black and white patterns. Very few in the Cold War bothered to read Marx, Engels or even Lenin. Very few today bother to read the Quran (even though it would do good-one of the last few Textes even specifically tells Muslims that they have their religion, others have their own religion, and everyone should just get along). This of course does not only result in the waging of a war against the abstract concept of a certain ideology, but it also creates so much unnecessary fear, justifying the measures I've previously mentioned in the first place.

#51
KaineParker

KaineParker

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2601 posts
  • Location:Houston, Texas
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer

Very few in the Cold War bothered to read Marx, Engels or even Lenin.


And neither have you. If you're going to constantly use Marx as your only frame of reference, at least bother to read something he wrote.

Edited by KaineParker, 02 March 2017 - 10:24 PM.


#52
Ben No.3

Ben No.3

    (5) Thaumaturgist

  • Members
  • 523 posts
  • Location:Frankfurt a. M., Germany
See, even if I told you I had, it would be useless ^^

And always such ad-hominem. Can't we just all agree that that is an useless form of argument?

Edited by Ben No.3, 02 March 2017 - 10:29 PM.

  • Hurlshot likes this

#53
BruceVC

BruceVC

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 4326 posts
  • Location:Johannesburg, South Africa
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

 

 

Did US citizens freedom not already suffer enough from this fight against "Islam"? Did you really learn nothing from your fight against "communism"?

Well the West won the ideological war against Communism and it will obviously win the war against Islamic extremism....what lesson should we learn?
Essentially, what it means for freedom and freedom of speech. The Cold War took away everyone's opinion who was himself a communist or just somewhat around that spectrum in the name of security and te American way. Black List and all, does that ring a bell?
Now, it takes on different forms with Islam, namely the constant surveillance. But in essence, it is the exact same thing all over again.

Another thing is that the ideologies in question become senselessly defied in pure black and white patterns. Very few in the Cold War bothered to read Marx, Engels or even Lenin. Very few today bother to read the Quran (even though it would do good-one of the last few Textes even specifically tells Muslims that they have their religion, others have their own religion, and everyone should just get along). This of course does not only result in the waging of a war against the abstract concept of a certain ideology, but it also creates so much unnecessary fear, justifying the measures I've previously mentioned in the first place.

 

I know the high level views of Marx and guys like Lenin and I haven't read even a single page of the Quran but I doubt reading these works would change my view that I am fundamentally opposed to both Communism and Islamic Extremism.....

 

I know you not suggesting I should read them but what would the benefit be?



#54
HoonDing

HoonDing

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 8698 posts
  • Location:Absurdistan

Marx was a good man; I saved his ass in Asscreed Syndicate.



#55
Zoraptor

Zoraptor

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2127 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

 

Is anyone really surprised that Pence uses AOL? Hardly seems equivalent in any way to Hillary's situation.


Well could argue it is, external server is as bad as your own. Is a fun situation for types like Pence harping on about integrity or justice or whatever moralizing hill they want to shoot from.

 

 

Eh, don't think you really can. It's comparing the governor of a fairly unimportant state- with appropriate apologies to any Indiana natives- with the country's Secretary of State when it comes to things like email security expectations. In terms of civilian positions SoS is top 3? in terms of the security that is required and it's a massive deal if their correspondence is being read by 3rd parties, I'd doubt Governor Pence would come close to cracking the top 100 (and likely not even the top 1000) on the importance level. There's also the other Hillary baggage, like archiving avoidance and it being potentially outright illegal for her to have the server. Pence seems to have been nothing other than typical Internet Grandad dumb, it's pretty easy to argue that Hillary was considerably worse than merely dumb, as well as being in a more important job.



#56
Ben No.3

Ben No.3

    (5) Thaumaturgist

  • Members
  • 523 posts
  • Location:Frankfurt a. M., Germany

Did US citizens freedom not already suffer enough from this fight against "Islam"? Did you really learn nothing from your fight against "communism"?

Well the West won the ideological war against Communism and it will obviously win the war against Islamic extremism....what lesson should we learn?
Essentially, what it means for freedom and freedom of speech. The Cold War took away everyone's opinion who was himself a communist or just somewhat around that spectrum in the name of security and te American way. Black List and all, does that ring a bell?
Now, it takes on different forms with Islam, namely the constant surveillance. But in essence, it is the exact same thing all over again.

Another thing is that the ideologies in question become senselessly defied in pure black and white patterns. Very few in the Cold War bothered to read Marx, Engels or even Lenin. Very few today bother to read the Quran (even though it would do good-one of the last few Textes even specifically tells Muslims that they have their religion, others have their own religion, and everyone should just get along). This of course does not only result in the waging of a war against the abstract concept of a certain ideology, but it also creates so much unnecessary fear, justifying the measures I've previously mentioned in the first place.
I know the high level views of Marx and guys like Lenin and I haven't read even a single page of the Quran but I doubt reading these works would change my view that I am fundamentally opposed to both Communism and Islamic Extremism.....

I know you not suggesting I should read them but what would the benefit be?
Well let's differentiate... you don't need to agree with Lenin in order to agree with Marx, and you don't need to fully agree with Marx to see that he has a point (in some cases.... admittedly, other cases are just moronic). But let's not go there, that's not the point.

So I recommend you read the Quran, just because it is simply well written. It contains, even when translated, quite beautiful poetry. And some none of us speak Arabic, to my knowledge, it appears we are missing out on some true art.
And of course, itll be a huge cultural benefit.

But anyway, you can't really oppose the extreme version of an ideology (be it Marxism-Leninism or Islamic Extremism) if you don't understand the ideology it is based on (Socialism or Islam). If you try to do that, then you are not opposing something, you are just being ignorant.

And then of course, ignorance leads to unreasonable fear, a dogmatic world view and unnecessary, unhelpful and useless prejudice. There are communists/socialists and Muslims out there who genuinely want to make the world a better place. And they are even the vast majority of said groups. Of course there are extremists, but this is true for any ideology.

But if you just oppose their entire ideology, without fully understanding it, how will you ever tell the difference between an extremist and someone who simply has a different point of view?
So I will stress this again: you need to read the Quran.

Edited by Ben No.3, 03 March 2017 - 06:03 AM.


#57
Chilloutman

Chilloutman

    (7) Enchanter

  • Members
  • 889 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

'unreasonable fear'

 

HAH, Good one



#58
Ben No.3

Ben No.3

    (5) Thaumaturgist

  • Members
  • 523 posts
  • Location:Frankfurt a. M., Germany

'unreasonable fear'

HAH, Good one

Name me one ideology that has not and could not produce extremists. Let's start with one!

#59
Chilloutman

Chilloutman

    (7) Enchanter

  • Members
  • 889 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

 

'unreasonable fear'

HAH, Good one

Name me one ideology that has not and could not produce extremists. Let's start with one!

 

 

Democracy?

 

And what extremists are you talking about? 30+ millions of people dead in gulags were product of few extremists?



#60
Malcador

Malcador

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 6740 posts
  • Location:Someplace in Canada
  • Xbox Gamertag:Pft, consoles.
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

Is anyone really surprised that Pence uses AOL? Hardly seems equivalent in any way to Hillary's situation.

Well could argue it is, external server is as bad as your own. Is a fun situation for types like Pence harping on about integrity or justice or whatever moralizing hill they want to shoot from.
Eh, don't think you really can. It's comparing the governor of a fairly unimportant state- with appropriate apologies to any Indiana natives- with the country's Secretary of State when it comes to things like email security expectations. In terms of civilian positions SoS is top 3? in terms of the security that is required and it's a massive deal if their correspondence is being read by 3rd parties, I'd doubt Governor Pence would come close to cracking the top 100 (and likely not even the top 1000) on the importance level. There's also the other Hillary baggage, like archiving avoidance and it being potentially outright illegal for her to have the server. Pence seems to have been nothing other than typical Internet Grandad dumb, it's pretty easy to argue that Hillary was considerably worse than merely dumb, as well as being in a more important job.
But same idea, as I said it is a fun thing to jab him with not necessarily something worth more. Forgot it isn't illegal. Kind of makes Indiana a bit slow for it not to be, maybe they'll fix that

Edited by Malcador, 03 March 2017 - 06:16 AM.

  • ShadySands likes this




3 user(s) are reading this topic

1 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users


    Chilloutman