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A Reqeust for a walk toggle this Time


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173 replies to this topic

#161
RedKnight

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...

Wow... look dude, you are not even worth responding to. Your attempts at arguments just makes me cringe.

Edited by RedKnight, 13 August 2017 - 05:16 AM.


#162
Karkarov

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Wow... look dude, you are not even worth responding to. Your attempts at arguments just makes me cringe.

I appreciate you proving that you have no real points for the third time.



#163
RedKnight

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Wow... look dude, you are not even worth responding to. Your attempts at arguments just makes me cringe.

I appreciate you proving that you have no real points for the third time.

 

You know what, I'll bite.
 

You know that if this was a debate of any merit you just lost in the worst way? Slinging insults only proves your argument is based on emotion.

I wasn't insulting you. I was calling you out on you pulling stuff out of your arse, which is a fact. I mean, if I am wrong, please show me a link to the poll where you can demonstrate that 90% of people DO NOT WANT this in the game.
 

Walk Toggle does not increase immersion on any reasonable level.

According to you. The very fact that there are whole threads all over the internet on this topic proves without a shadow of a doubt that to some people sprinting everywhere is immersion-breaking. How do we know that it's imerssion breaking to them? Well, they bloody said so. I mean, if I tell you that I like vanilla ice-cream, are you going to argue with me how vanilla ice-cream is not good on any reasonable level?
 

Catering to 90%+ of your players is not called bowing to the majority, it is called making decisions based on what most of your customers want.

Funny, that is exactly the response Obsidian got when they were asking to make these types of games :)
 

Immersion is already a poor argument for a feature to begin with, because immersion is based only on the player and their feelings. Not everyone feels the same.

Again, thank you for proving my point. You feel one way, me and many others feel different.
 

A reasonable amount of players don't even play for immersion, they play for the "combat puzzle" and "min maxing".

And many people play for other reasons, imerssion being one of it. So, again.. what's your point? Oh, that's right, you don't have any. You just want to impose your way of playing on everyone else.
 

I can promise you one undeniable fact. Lack of walk toggle was not a factor in many players not completing eternity 1.

I never said it was. But when your game already has numerous issues, why add to the pile of problems something that can be fixed with a few lines of code?
 

Okay..... colorblind mode lets colorblind people play the game. That's sort of a really nice feature to make your game more accessible to actual people.

But wasn't your whole argument that it's about quote: "...making decisions based on what most of your customers want"??  :)
... 

... or are you trying to say that people who care about imerssion are not quote: "actual people"? You see... this is why I didn't want to respond to you. I thought you must be a troll.

 

Does walk toggle make the game more accessible to people with disabilities? Does it serve any purpose in combat, even if it is only a slight one?

You are asking a loaded question. Whatever dude, I am done with you and this is my last response to you. You are not worth responding to. In fact, I refuse to believe anyone can be so thick, so I will just assume you are trolling.


Edited by RedKnight, 13 August 2017 - 06:05 AM.

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#164
Wormerine

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Listen with an intent to understand, not with an intent to respond.
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#165
Rosbjerg

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Let's tone down the rhetoric, we are after all not discussing international politics here - just a walk toggle function.


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#166
Cerebro83

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I don't like that they added in respecs at inns.  Far more immersion breaking than no walk toggle too.  But guess what, they did, likely because a majority of their customers wanted it.  Did you see me making a huge post on this forum railing against it?  Nope.

 

Any why should you? Its optional, so you don't have to use it. (I'm not a big fan myself and always plan my builds so that I don't have to respec.) As the walking toggle is not (officially) in the game, people don't get to chose, so the situation is completely different.

 

 

Immersion is already a poor argument for a feature to begin with, because immersion is based only on the player and their feelings.  Not everyone feels the same.  A reasonable amount of players don't even play for immersion, they play for the "combat puzzle" and "min maxing". 

 

If immersion wasn't important, we could play a game purely based on numbers floating an a black screen without any animations, dialogue or story at all. Min-Max your stats and solve combat-scenarios aka arithmetic problems. Sounds fun, doesn't it? The point is: What level of immersion is needed to have fun? For you and the majority of people - walking is totally unimportant. For a few others - it is not. I totally get why this feature is not very high priority, but it's not useless as many requests since the launch of Pillars 1 prove.

 

 

The largest group of players actually never even beat the game.  What a good dev should be doing, is asking themselves, why did that massive group not beat my game after playing it, and doing things to address legitimate concerns so more people play the game to completion.

 

What a good dev should be doing, is enhance the gaming experience to the best of their abilities by squashing bugs, adding requested features and overall presenting the best game they can possibly deliver. The more fun people have playing, the more will complete and replay it. So... for some people, a walking toggle would enhance the experience. Maybe not many, but the work behind this is also neither expensive, time consuming or demanding, so it's not unreasonable to ask and / or consider.

 

 

I can promise you one undeniable fact.  Lack of walk toggle was not a factor in many players not completing eternity 1.

 

I agree, but so what? Most people don't complete most games of any type. This doesn't say or prove anything at all regarding the topic at hand.

 

 

Also I have to ask, did someone actually compare color blind mode to walk toggle?  And big head mode?  Okay..... colorblind mode lets colorblind people play the game.  That's sort of a really nice feature to make your game more accessible to actual people.  Big head mode is funny, and in heavy combat situations can actually be useful for determining character position etc when turned on just to check.

Does walk toggle make the game more accessible to people with disabilities?  Does it serve any purpose in combat, even if it is only a slight one?  No.

 

Yes, I did compare them - to show that it's useful and appreciated to add optional features even if the majority of players won't use them. A walking toggle would enhance the experience for some people as well as colorblind mode enhances the playability for others. Both features have their interested parties and just because one part of the playerbase does not want or require them, doesn't make them unnecessary or a waste of dev time. What I get from your posts (and some others) is this: "I see no need for it so there is none. Because my opinion is all that matters."

 

Look, I totally get why this feature is not very high on the priority list. Obsidian has to pick their fights, because they cannot do everything everyone wants from them. And I'm totally cool with people who come here saying they don't need a walking toggle. But I'm not cool when people come here and declare what is important in an RPG and not as a matter of fact, because that's as subjective as everything else. You may play for Min-Maxing and combat. I play for story and immersion. Is my preference more important than yours? No. Is yours more important than mine? Not in my book.

 

The purpose of this thread - for me anyway - is to show that there is demand for this feature, so it doesn't get swept under rug like in Pillars 1. If you don't agree: Fine, don't chime in, then. Ignore this thread and post in others. This unending back and forth here does not lead anywhere constructive, so I'll release myself from it. I think I made my voice heard and my position on this matter clear.

 

My final words: Giving a player more options is never wrong or a waste of time. Yes, there are things more important than a walking toggle, but I hope that one will make it into the game, nevertheless. Love and respect.


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#167
DexGames

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Pro Tip :

 

Put the Game in Slow Mode, there you go, Walking Animation !

Problem Solved  :aiee: :facepalm:



#168
Osvir

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Walking toggle would be amazing. No need to be snide about it.

But it doesn't need to be "crusaded" either. If it gets in, it gets in. Like any other feature. However, thinking about it, if I got to choose, which feature would I have wanted more... Walking Animations, or Idle Animations? Tough call. They both hold pretty much the same value (in terms of gameplay), although I suppose from a design perspective Idle Animations adds a little bit more. But what would I want if I got the choice and could only choose one? I don't know to be honest.

Idle:
1) It adds "character" to the characters. Allowing you to put one on your MC (the Watcher) also adds CC (character creation) options.
2) Atmosphere
3) Immersion

Walking:
1) Atmosphere
2) Immersion

But put into perspective of how they would function:

Idle: Stand still long enough and the characters will go into Idle Anims
Walking: Press a button and the characters will start walking

One is a passive feature, the other is an active feature. Active features tend to be most interesting if they have some meat to them. Like Assassin's Creed, Walking literally allows you to blend in with a crowd and hide. It's also a very useful feature in games where you're following someone, stalking them to find out a hideout, spying, detective work etc. etc.

Basically, Active features are most satisfying when they have a purpose, whilst passive features are more or less "cute" or "atmospheric".

Another example is Dynamic Weather. It's a passive feature. It doesn't add anything to combat, or to the gameplay, or to the Player Party. It's just atmosphere and immersion (of course, at a bigger scale than either Walking or Idle, because Dynamic Weather affects World, not just individual Character). You won't get status effects from it. But Obsidian might have some "Actions" and "Conditions" that only happen during a Rain (Like Final Fantasy 12, where you could only hunt some monsters or have some encounters when it was a specific type of weather). E.g. most NPC's runs inside when it rains or is a storm outside, but a band of ruffians might take that opportunity to steal or pillage a nearby locale. Guards will probably stand their ground, keep patrolling and stuff like that.

But my point is that, it's a passive feature in that it's not something the Player controls. It adds to the atmospheric level of the game, making it more beautiful and feels more reactive to environments and the world, and makes the experience more sensually satisfying. The same applies to both Idle and Walking.


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#169
Baltic

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.


I'm not against implementing a walking toggle but don't idle animations have a kind of purpose in telling you that you're being idle and may not wish to leave your game that way? Similar to the comments that played in the first game if you were inactive for a while.

#170
swaterik

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Walking toggle is not a difficult feature to add. At the same time it's very important for immersion. It's details like this that break or make a game for me. Will not buy the game if they don't add such a basic function.



#171
RedKnight

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Pro Tip :
 
Put the Game in Slow Mode, there you go, Walking Animation !
Problem Solved  :aiee: :facepalm:

And here is a pro tip for you:
1. Hold your lip really tight between your fingers.
2. Pull the lip over your head.
3. Swallow.
4. When your head comes out of your ass, read what people already said about your suggestion.

#172
smjjames

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Pro Tip :
 
Put the Game in Slow Mode, there you go, Walking Animation !
Problem Solved  :aiee: :facepalm:

And here is a pro tip for you:
1. Hold your lip really tight between your fingers.
2. Pull the lip over your head.
3. Swallow.
4. When your head comes out of your ass, read what people already said about your suggestion.

 

 
Can't you take a joke? :p


Edited by smjjames, Today, 11:02 AM.

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#173
Wormerine

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Walking toggle would be amazing. No need to be snide about it.

But it doesn't need to be "crusaded" either. If it gets in, it gets in. Like any other feature. However, thinking about it, if I got to choose, which feature would I have wanted more... Walking Animations, or Idle Animations? Tough call. They both hold pretty much the same value (in terms of gameplay), although I suppose from a design perspective Idle Animations adds a little bit more. But what would I want if I got the choice and could only choose one? I don't know to be honest.

Idle:
1) It adds "character" to the characters. Allowing you to put one on your MC (the Watcher) also adds CC (character creation) options.
2) Atmosphere
3) Immersion

Walking:
1) Atmosphere
2) Immersion

But put into perspective of how they would function:

Idle: Stand still long enough and the characters will go into Idle Anims
Walking: Press a button and the characters will start walking

One is a passive feature, the other is an active feature. Active features tend to be most interesting if they have some meat to them. Like Assassin's Creed, Walking literally allows you to blend in with a crowd and hide. It's also a very useful feature in games where you're following someone, stalking them to find out a hideout, spying, detective work etc. etc.

Basically, Active features are most satisfying when they have a purpose, whilst passive features are more or less "cute" or "atmospheric".

Another example is Dynamic Weather. It's a passive feature. It doesn't add anything to combat, or to the gameplay, or to the Player Party. It's just atmosphere and immersion (of course, at a bigger scale than either Walking or Idle, because Dynamic Weather affects World, not just individual Character). You won't get status effects from it. But Obsidian might have some "Actions" and "Conditions" that only happen during a Rain (Like Final Fantasy 12, where you could only hunt some monsters or have some encounters when it was a specific type of weather). E.g. most NPC's runs inside when it rains or is a storm outside, but a band of ruffians might take that opportunity to steal or pillage a nearby locale. Guards will probably stand their ground, keep patrolling and stuff like that.

But my point is that, it's a passive feature in that it's not something the Player controls. It adds to the atmospheric level of the game, making it more beautiful and feels more reactive to environments and the world, and makes the experience more sensually satisfying. The same applies to both Idle and Walking.

 

I would say this is hardly a choice. Idle all the way. I really do have hard time believing that the walk toggle is REALLY so desired. I doubt it will get much use if it will be implimented. Even if some people really can't deal with them characters jogging from one place to another, most of the players would find it to be an unnecessary waste of time. Idle animations will be seen by everyone - when they look around, during conversations etc. And they enhance the game by helping in fleshing out companions, locations and your character. 



#174
RedKnight

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I would say this is hardly a choice. Idle all the way.

Why can't we have both? Yeah, you are absolutely right that this is not a choice. It should never be a choice. Both of these things need to be in the game, because it will add to imerssion to certain types of players. Not everybody of course, but that can be said about any part of the game.

Even if some people really can't deal with them characters jogging from one place to another, most of the players would find it to be an unnecessary waste of time.

And you know this based on what?... Look, just because you personally dont use a feature, doesn't mean that the same applies to everyone else. And again, there is not a high demand for colorblind mode, but the devs still made it, so why should this be treated any differently?

There people here who already said that they will not be buying the game if Obsidian doesn't introduce this imerssion breaking feature - myself included. Most people commenting here want this option. On the Obsidian's YouTube video with the latest patch I made a comment about this topic and I recieved over 30 likes in less than 12 hours since posting it. It is at this time one of the most highlighted comments! The internet is filled with comments on various sites where people are searching for a way to fix this through mods in PoE1, Tyranny and even Torment. There are even reviews by users I have seen who complain because of this, etc.

Now, we may both speculate on how much demand there is for it, but until you show me some polls, all you are doing is baseless speculation. I may say the opposite thing and be on an equal footing as you.


Idle animations will be seen by everyone - when they look around, during conversations etc. And they enhance the game by helping in fleshing out companions, locations and your character.

I will now use your argument to illustrate the above point: "Well, I doubt people will use it (idle animations), since most people are in a constant hurry to do things, so most of the players would find it to be an unnecessary waste of time."

See? We both can make unsubstianted claims. :)




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