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Who is your disarm traps guy ?

skills mechanics

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18 replies to this topic

#1
Aginorh

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Hi again,

 

It seems like a small topic probably, but on my side I am a bit frustrated because on two instances I had not sufficient skill to disarm traps (example in 8th level of Caed Nua), and also it takes a lot of skill points.

 

Initially I chose to have my Barb PC doing the mechanics, because I thought a good idea to have someone strong to scout ahead (in case he is discovered). Now at level 8 I have seen it is quite useless because I always scout with a full party, given how stealth works...

 

So my question is who is filling the role in your party ? And is it really a waste to have my Barb do it ?

I am aware that I can build some +mechanics rest building at my stronghold, but it seems like a pain to have to come back here all the time (and also I would lose the other bonuses available).

 

I have Aloth, Sagani, Eder, Pellegina, and Durance as NPCs.

 

On a wider perspective I was also wondering which skills are really useful for a Barb.

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

Aginorh

 



#2
MaxQuest

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Very good question.

When I was starting my second playthrough, I have given that enough of thought.
There are few things that we can take in consideration:
- you need one mechanics guy; 
- you would want your steady dps guys have 4 or 10 survival for the bonus accuracy vs creature
- you might want your burst characters with no high bonus dmg coefficients (like a quick-switching ranger) to have 6 or 12 survival for the bonus damage vs flanked
- you might want a character with maxed per and int (if you have such) to have ability to cast cc-scrolls 
- you might want a character with maxed mig and int (if you have such) to have ability to cast healing-scrolls 
- you might want a character with maxed mig, int and per (if you have such) to have ability to cast aoe dmg-scrolls
- you might want to take into account opportunity cost
 .- every moment a character is using a scroll, he is not doing something else
 .- a character with low amount of abilities or spells, might be partially "idling" if he doesn't have the ability to use scrolls.
- chanters, ciphers and wizards get a +1 bonus to mechanics 
- rogues get a +2 bonus to mechanics

Taking into account all of the above, my mech guy would be (in descending order):
1. cipher
  - because he doesn't really need scrolls (as he'd better keep attacking and using powers); and can take 4 points in survival and bump the rest in mechanics
  - has innate +1 bonus
2. rogue
  - but only if my party is short on CC, because otherwise I'd like to exploit deathblows+scrolls combinations (+30 starting acc). On the other hand, if my party is short on CC, why do I have a rogue in the group? This would also mean that rogue has to be able to use cc-scrolls, so back to lore again.
  - has innate +2 bonus
3. wizard
  - because wizard has low starting acc and I don't always skill lore on them
  - because he already has enough stuff to do in a fight
  - because he also has a +1 bonus to mechanics
 

On a wider perspective I was also wondering which skills are really useful for a Barb.

Depends on the type of that barbarian.
- for a dps or interrupt barb: [4 or 10] in survival; or [6 or 12] in survival if you have a cipher with Phantom Foes.
- for a cc/interrupt barb: [4 or 10] in survival for the extra acc
- for a tank barb: could consider [8 or 14] in survival for the extra healing
- if barb has maxed int: could consider investing in lore. Specifically:
  .- maxed [int]: any defensive scrolls
  .- maxed combination of [int + per]: could consider 6 in lore for scrolls of paralysis | or maybe even 8 for confusion + valor (although valor doesn't require per)
  .- maxed combination of [mig + int]: could consider 8 in lore for scrolls of moonwell
  .- maxed combination of [mig + int + per]: could consider 10 in lore for scrolls of maelstrom, boiling spray and insect swarm

Edited by MaxQuest, 07 February 2017 - 03:46 AM.

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#3
Hynkel

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 I think there are only 2 things that really matters for a goop trap disarmer :

 

- Having a decent level of stealth (stealth bonus items might help) ;

- Being able to spend most of her points in mechanics.

 

The issue with Barbarian is that you either wanna max out athletics to make Second Wind relevant for the bazillion HP you have, or spend points in Lore for scrolls.

 

So it's probably best to pick someone who don't care about either, namely Aloth or Durance.


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#4
Boeroer

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My approach:

 

For barb: always survial. I try to reach 14 in order to get +60% healing bonus when I need it and also have a good acc bonus at hand if I need it. Atheltics is useless for me because it takes too long to cast and recover and the barb has enough other possible sources of healing (draining, Savage Defiance, Veteran's Recovery, Shod-in-Faith boots and so on).

I can't emphasize too much on how awesome +60% healing is when combined with +25% from an item and high might.

 

Mechanics I usually give to a rogue. If there's no rogue I will give it to a wizard or a priest - especially when it's a buffing/healing priest with low PER. 



#5
Aginorh

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Very good question.

When I was starting my second playthrough, I have given that enough of thought.
There are few things that we can take in consideration:
- you need one mechanics guy;
- you would want your steady dps guys have 4 or 10 survival for the bonus accuracy vs creature
- you might want your burst characters with no high bonus dmg coefficients (like a quick-switching ranger) to have 6 or 12 survival for the bonus damage vs flanked
- you might want a character with maxed per and int (if you have such) to have ability to cast cc-scrolls
- you might want a character with maxed mig and int (if you have such) to have ability to cast healing-scrolls
- you might want a character with maxed mig, int and per (if you have such) to have ability to cast aoe dmg-scrolls
- you might want to take into account opportunity cost
.- every moment a character is using a scroll, he is not doing something else
.- a character with low amount of abilities or spells, might be partially "idling" if he doesn't have the ability to use scrolls.
- chanters, ciphers and wizards get a +1 bonus to mechanics
- rogues get a +2 bonus to mechanics

Taking into account all of the above, my mech guy would be (in descending order):
1. cipher
- because he doesn't really need scrolls (as he'd better keep attacking and using powers); and can take 4 points in survival and bump the rest in mechanics
- has innate +1 bonus
2. rogue
- but only if my party is short on CC, because otherwise I'd like to exploit deathblows+scrolls combinations (+30 starting acc). On the other hand, if my party is short on CC, why do I have a rogue in the group? This would also mean that rogue has to be able to use cc-scrolls, so back to lore again.
- has innate +2 bonus
3. wizard
- because wizard has low starting acc and I don't always skill lore on them
- because he already has enough stuff to do in a fight
- because he also has a +1 bonus to mechanics

On a wider perspective I was also wondering which skills are really useful for a Barb.

Depends on the type of that barbarian.
- for a dps or interrupt barb: [4 or 10] in survival; or [6 or 12] in survival if you have a cipher with Phantom Foes.
- for a cc/interrupt barb: [4 or 10] in survival for the extra acc
- for a tank barb: could consider [8 or 14] in survival for the extra healing
- if barb has maxed int: could consider investing in lore. Specifically:
.- maxed [int]: any defensive scrolls
.- maxed combination of [int + per]: could consider 6 in lore for scrolls of paralysis | or maybe even 8 for confusion + valor (although valor doesn't require per)
.- maxed combination of [mig + int]: could consider 8 in lore for scrolls of moonwell
.- maxed combination of [mig + int + per]: could consider 10 in lore for scrolls of maelstrom, boiling spray and insect swarm

Very interesting thank you, in fact my barb stats are the one you advised me for a dps dual wielding build :) I will double check and see for the scrolls, it can be helpful when fight is difficult.

#6
Aginorh

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My approach:

For barb: always survial. I try to reach 14 in order to get +60% healing bonus when I need it and also have a good acc bonus at hand if I need it. Atheltics is useless for me because it takes too long to cast and recover and the barb has enough other possible sources of healing (draining, Savage Defiance, Veteran's Recovery, Shod-in-Faith boots and so on).
I can't emphasize too much on how awesome +60% healing is when combined with +25% from an item and high might.

Mechanics I usually give to a rogue. If there's no rogue I will give it to a wizard or a priest - especially when it's a buffing/healing priest with low PER.


Based on your advice (thanks to all), and since I have no rogue, I'll put Aloth on the job with the 1 point bonus. Why Durance would be better if I may ask ? Need less other skills ?

#7
JFutral

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My first play through I think I used Aloth until I came across Durance, who seemed to have a good bit of mechanics when I found him. It took me a while to get used to the idea that I didn't _need_ a rogue. As such it was problematic to get someone with high enough Mech points to be useful later in the game until I got used to the notion of respecing someone to better fit the bill. I still felt like I never got it right.

 

So the next playthrough I "hired" a rogue. I really enjoyed that character and decided to restart the game as a rogue. That was a lot of fun.

 

This playthrough I decided to use Grieving Mother (now that I better understand ciphers. I usually dropped her quickly after finding her, not understanding how useful a cipher can be. I mean most of the enemies were dead. How could a mindbender affect undead? Seemed like built in immunity to me.) Besides I want to finally complete her quest. But once again I keep hitting the ceiling of how much I can put into her Mech points in WM I Durgan's Battery quests. So I ditched her for a short while and used the NPC mechanical rogue.

 

Now she's back and we'll see how she does. I respeced her to max Mech points and Weapon Focus the Storm-thingy hunting bow.

 

Joe



#8
Aginorh

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My first play through I think I used Aloth until I came across Durance, who seemed to have a good bit of mechanics when I found him. It took me a while to get used to the idea that I didn't _need_ a rogue. As such it was problematic to get someone with high enough Mech points to be useful later in the game until I got used to the notion of respecing someone to better fit the bill. I still felt like I never got it right.

 

So the next playthrough I "hired" a rogue. I really enjoyed that character and decided to restart the game as a rogue. That was a lot of fun.

 

This playthrough I decided to use Grieving Mother (now that I better understand ciphers. I usually dropped her quickly after finding her, not understanding how useful a cipher can be. I mean most of the enemies were dead. How could a mindbender affect undead? Seemed like built in immunity to me.) Besides I want to finally complete her quest. But once again I keep hitting the ceiling of how much I can put into her Mech points in WM I Durgan's Battery quests. So I ditched her for a short while and used the NPC mechanical rogue.

 

Now she's back and we'll see how she does. I respeced her to max Mech points and Weapon Focus the Storm-thingy hunting bow.

 

Joe

OK great thanks, I had not seen that Durance started with high mechanics skill.



#9
JFutral

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OK great thanks, I had not seen that Durance started with high mechanics skill.

 

I'm not sure how the NPCs stats are figured. My next play through his Mech stats weren't as high. I don't know if they are predetermined or rolled each time. Or maybe my memory is faulty, which is just as likely.

 

Joe



#10
IamNOOB

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ALOTH because the others do not need to get mechanics or they might get it but they will suffer if they do... Kana is a scroll master for me.



#11
hobbitmonk

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This probably wont be the most helpful answer, but for me my motivation is laziness, so my Mechanic is always my tank. He's at the front of the formation anyway, so he's also my Mechanic, two birds with one stone. I dislike having to rearrange my party for every mob, pulling my Mechanic back into formation and so on. So my party moves around like a phalanx who can immediately jump into combat. It's probably not the most optimal choice, but for me it's a great quality of life boost.


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#12
Boeroer

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Based on your advice (thanks to all), and since I have no rogue, I'll put Aloth on the job with the 1 point bonus. Why Durance would be better if I may ask ? Need less other skills ?

A priest who focuses on buffing and healing needs no accuracy bonuses. And if he's in the back row and is not too squishy, he also doesn't need those healing bonsus very badly. So he can skip survival altogether (or only take a few points). Lore is also not necessary because priests already have great spells like prayers and the damaging scrolls are bad for them (as long as they are not self buffing all the time) because they have terrible base accuracy right from the start. So, pumping mechanics on a supporter priest can be a good thing without too many drawbacks. If your priest is build in an offensive way then it's not a smart move though.

 

Plus: DUrance has a bonus right from the start. I guess because of being a priest of Magran and so on.


Edited by Boeroer, 07 February 2017 - 09:16 AM.

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#13
Aginorh

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This probably wont be the most helpful answer, but for me my motivation is laziness, so my Mechanic is always my tank. He's at the front of the formation anyway, so he's also my Mechanic, two birds with one stone. I dislike having to rearrange my party for every mob, pulling my Mechanic back into formation and so on. So my party moves around like a phalanx who can immediately jump into combat. It's probably not the most optimal choice, but for me it's a great quality of life boost.

Good point ! It was also part of my initial decision... Now "my Durance" is geared quite tanky so he can stay safely on second row. It should work :)



#14
Aginorh

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Based on your advice (thanks to all), and since I have no rogue, I'll put Aloth on the job with the 1 point bonus. Why Durance would be better if I may ask ? Need less other skills ?

A priest who focuses on buffing and healing needs no accuracy bonuses. And if he's in the back row and is not too squishy, he also doesn't need those healing bonsus very badly. So he can skip survival altogether (or only take a few points). Lore is also not necessary because priests already have great spells like prayers and the damaging scrolls are bad for them (as long as they are not self buffing all the time) because they have terrible base accuracy right from the start. So, pumping mechanics on a supporter priest can be a good thing without too many drawbacks. If your priest is build in an offensive way then it's not a smart move though.

 

Plus: DUrance has a bonus right from the start. I guess because of being a priest of Magran and so on.

 

Ah yes I got it. Brilliant, it all makes sense, and also I suppose it's worth to invest in survival for Aloth...



#15
Boeroer

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Yes. Additional accuracy is a good thing for wizards - higher move speed is also very beneficial for them.

#16
KDubya

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I agree with MaxQuests analysis - a Cipher is the best choice, especially if the main as there are a few quest rewards that add to the skill.

 

Hopefully in the next game they take an idea from Tyranny and combine Stealth and Mechanics into Subterfuge. That way a Rogue would not have to choose between being the trap monkey or actually being able to be stealthy and "rogue like"


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#17
Boeroer

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Hm... I don't get it why the cipher should be the no.1 candidate. He can make great use of the accuracy bonus survival can give you since he has to deal damage in order to do CC. Both requires ACC and I would totally miss survival on my ciphers. Against kith (where I can't have bonus acc from survival): when the cipher is doing melee I would want the option of better healing and if he's ranged I would want more move speed.

 

A buffing priest for example neither needs scrolls nor accuracy at all. Durance already has points in mechanics if i recall correctly. But a +1 bonus doesn't matter that much if you go all the way with mechanics.



#18
JFutral

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Hm... I don't get it why the cipher should be the no.1 candidate. He can make great use of the accuracy bonus survival can give you since he has to deal damage in order to do CC. Both requires ACC and I would totally miss survival on my ciphers. Against kith (where I can't have bonus acc from survival): when the cipher is doing melee I would want the option of better healing and if he's ranged I would want more move speed.

 

A buffing priest for example neither needs scrolls nor accuracy at all. Durance already has points in mechanics if i recall correctly. But a +1 bonus doesn't matter that much if you go all the way with mechanics.

Are you talking about the resting bonus? Or is there some other benefit with Survival that I missed as I am still unsure of all the intricacies of the game?

 

Joe



#19
Boeroer

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Yes, I mean the bonus you can get when camping (using camping supplies). Resting in an inn or in the stronghold will give you other bonuses. You can often stack those with camping bonuses since they usually last for more than once rest.


Edited by Boeroer, 08 February 2017 - 04:02 AM.

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