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List of Subclasses as we learn about them.

Subclasses Sub-classes

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358 replies to this topic

#341
injurai

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My point is that josh mentioned some time ago (I think on his tumblr, or twitter), that he is not sure yet whether you should decide on a multiclass at character creation, with a fixed progression throughout the game, or if you can just take levels of a second class whenever you want.

 

Just to be clear: the first option means you advance in both classes equally (think dualclassing of AD&D / BG), while the second option means you can decide each lvl which of two classes to take (think multiclassing of D&D3.X / NWN).

 

My impression was that he described the first option in the IGN interview, which seems like a huge loss in build diversity (I'd actually prefer that, since it would probably balance the dual classes much much better).

 

Maybe he was toying with implementation ideas at somepoint?

 

As far as I know though, the second option you describe is how it is going to be in Deadfire.

 

The question that remains for me, is more of a usability issue. Will they lock you out of multi-classing if you disable it? I know not the official word on this at all, just going by what I'm hearing here. I can trust myself to keep the multi-classing option open. I'd just hate for other players to get locked out of the option because they at first think they want to roll a pure class. Of course I can see the opposite issue happening were someone feels compelled to pick up a second class only to find it's not working for them. I guess you can't protect the player in the end.

 

A think as long as I can defer picking up a second class until way later I'll be most happy. Though I think I may have read you have to at least pick up that second class at level 2 or something... not sure...



#342
blotter

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This interview (https://www.bleeding...eternity-ii-e3/) goes into a bit more detail on the subclass mechanics for corpse-eater: 

 

And when it comes to Sawyer and Brennecke’s favorite multi-class and sub-class combinations, one of highlights was the corpse-eater barbarian, which is pretty much exactly what it sounds like. As a corpse-eater barbarian, you have less rage to start with, which is one of the key aspects of being a Barbarian, but then “once an enemy is killed, you just sort of get in there and start digging in,” which boosts that rage counter pretty well.

 

Nothing too surprising, but confirmation of literal corpse-eating action in the game, as opposed to passive boosts triggered by kills, may be illustrative in terms of what subclass abilities may entail overall (e.g., new animations as opposed to new mechanics only, etc.)



#343
Katarack21

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Gonna keep my PoE 1 character a cipher for my first playthrough, but I suspect a Corpse-Eater may be my second playthrough. That class sounds *fun*.



#344
SaruNi

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So what will be the official (default) name for a Corpse Eater - Cipher? (One for Corpse Eater - Vanilla Cipher, another for Corpse Eater - Soul Blade, another for Corpse Eater - Ascendant...).



#345
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Holy crap, Corpse-Eater/Soul Blade...that didn't even occur to me. That sounds like what I'm doing in Deadfire!



#346
smjjames

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Josh Sawyer said that the multiclass combo name is going to be the same regardless of the subclass, so, corpse eater/ascendant will have the same name as corpse eater/soul blade. Same if it's berserkoid (a barbarian subclass I made up just now)/ascendant as it's still barbarian/cipher.

 

You have to realize that with three subclasses for each class, that multiplies the number of possible combinations by, well, a lot. Better to just use the base class.


Edited by smjjames, 20 June 2017 - 07:45 AM.

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#347
Boeroer

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Just to be clear: the first option means you advance in both classes equally (think dualclassing of AD&D / BG)

But that's only an assumption. Nobody said that. In former explanations Josh always gave examples of characters who advance in both classes individually so that you could end up with 19 fighter/1 ranger and so on.

His statement (if he really meant it this way) can also mean that you only have to decide on your multiclass combination at the start of character creation - so that it's clear what special class(combo) you are throughout the whole game. His statement says nothing about class level advancement. I doubt he changed the whole multiclass mechanics. And I would be angry if they change multiclassing in such a bad way.

Maybe it's easier to react to the character in dialogues properly if you already know he's going to be a priest/fighter for example. May help with that strange thing that some people have with these games. "Immersion" or what it's called. ;)

Edited by Boeroer, 19 June 2017 - 09:34 PM.


#348
Quillon

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Maybe it's easier to react to the character in dialogues properly if you already know he's going to be a priest/fighter for example. May help with that strange thing that some people have with these games. "Immersion" or what it's called. ;)


But what if I choose multiclass combo at start and stick with one class all the way to lv20? Would the game still react to my multiclass? Or would it force me to invest in the second chosen class at level 2 or 20? :p

Btw. I seriously doubt game'd react to multiclass names.

#349
Doppelschwert

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Just to be clear: the first option means you advance in both classes equally (think dualclassing of AD&D / BG)

But that's only an assumption. Nobody said that. In former explanations Josh always gave examples of characters who advance in both classes individually so that you could end up with 19 fighter/1 ranger and so on.

His statement (if he really meant it this way) can also mean that you only have to decide on your multiclass combination at the start of character creation - so that it's clear what special class(combo) you are throughout the whole game. His statement says nothing about class level advancement. I doubt he changed the whole multiclass mechanics. And I would be angry if they change multiclassing in such a bad way.

Maybe it's easier to react to the character in dialogues properly if you already know he's going to be a priest/fighter for example. May help with that strange thing that some people have with these games. "Immersion" or what it's called. ;)

 

 

It's not an assumption on my part, he DID ask whether people prefer the AD&D or D&D3 approach, and linked them explicitly to the time where you pick the second class:

 

https://twitter.com/...978554973859840

 

I'm also pretty sure he said somewhere (maybe SA), that he doesn't mind either way, so he'd like to have some feedback on this.

 

Just because he used the most general examples for explaining the framework doesn't mean he can't use the framework on a restricted progression - the math would stay the same. I'm not saying that the interview proves that they will use the AD&D approach, but neither should anyone assume it is confirmed that we will get the one from D&D3, because afaik, it was never explicitly confirmed since he asked those questions.


Edited by Doppelschwert, 19 June 2017 - 11:38 PM.


#350
MaxQuest

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Interesting... how will Deadfire handle respec.
Will it allow to change second class, or will it lock main-secondary class combination once picked. Because there might be some x/y optimal builds for early-mid game and x/z for late game.

#351
Quillon

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Interesting... how will Deadfire handle respec.
Will it allow to change second class, or will it lock main-secondary class combination once picked. Because there might be some x/y optimal builds for early-mid game and x/z for late game.


You could also take advantage of being a certain class in narrative and changing secondary classes would be inconsistent/cheating so it'll be locked most certainly.

Tho I don't know how will secondary class work in dialogue; will 19 barb + 1 cipher able to use cipher powers in dialogue?.. ah maybe class calls include power source level check so instead of [CIPHER] class call in dialogue we may see [PSIONICS #].

Edited by Quillon, 20 June 2017 - 02:46 AM.


#352
MortyTheGobbo

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The buffet-style multiclassing has been resoundingly proven not to work, so I hope they don't use it.



#353
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I still think Josh just meant it differently. I can't see any reason why he would overthrow everything he told us about Deadfire's multiclassing so far (in backer updates, twitch streams, vids and so on) and secretly use a completely different approach.



#354
illathid

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Could be a situation where both are possible. You can select a multi-class at character creation like in BG or decide on a second class at some later point like in NWN. Having one doesn't necessarily mean you can't have the other.


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#355
Katarack21

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Could be a situation where both are possible. You can select a multi-class at character creation like in BG or decide on a second class at some later point like in NWN. Having one doesn't necessarily mean you can't have the other.

 

Doesn't that increase the complexity, though?



#356
Doppelschwert

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Just to reiterate that AD&D dual classing being a possibility is neither a secret nor betraying what they already said, the corresponding SA-post:
 

Still sounds like one of those early alpha things that you scrap and talk about later on in a video saying "yeah we had this awful clunky system before we came up with X"


Well, what would you like out of multiclassing? We can regulate multiclassing in a much cleaner fashion if you're willing to give up flexibility. Multiclassing at CC (AD&D style) would be relatively clean and easy because everything could be advanced according to a simple formula. We could also do something where you always start with a base class and then at a specific level, you gain the option (only then) to multiclass, progressing the joined classes in tandem, e.g. fighter into battlemage, so there's a heavier emphasis on the fighter side.

I don't have any particular attachment to this system. I made it to give players a lot of options while addressing one of the major shortcomings of 3E multiclassing. That said, ProfessorCirno is correct that synergies are the things that can make individual combos insanely good or relatively bland depending on how the mechanics work together. E.g., no, Carnage won't ultra-boost Focus, but cipher self-buffs combined with barbarian powers could still be extremely strong.

 

I'll point out again that Josh uses multiclass at CC synonymous to the system in AD&D where there is a fixed progression to follow.

 

There are some obvious benefits for the developers to constraint the free picking of classes each level. Fixed progression automatically solves any issues with level dipping and the combinations to check for QA are reduced tremendeously. I think this is a very real alternative, and I wouldn't be surprised if they end up chosing something like this - not that I overly care, since I can build fun characters either way.

 

If someone has a social media account, feel free to just ask josh directly about the issue.


Edited by Doppelschwert, 20 June 2017 - 01:16 PM.


#357
injurai

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CC?



#358
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CC = Character Creation



#359
illathid

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Could be a situation where both are possible. You can select a multi-class at character creation like in BG or decide on a second class at some later point like in NWN. Having one doesn't necessarily mean you can't have the other.

 

Doesn't that increase the complexity, though?

 

 

Well it'd depend on a couple of different factors I think. 







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