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Comparing Weapons to Keep After Adventure


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#1
Chicken The God

Chicken The God

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Ok, so this is always a big struggle for me after the game: deciding which weapon cards to keep on my heroes. There is a lot that goes into my choices, but I'm looking here for anybody that has a couple tips on how they choose or fast methods of choosing.

These are the factors I examine when deciding which weapon boon to keep on my hero:

1. Average Amount of reveal damage: Obviously this is the most important one as the primary purpose of the weapon is to do a lot of damage. So I take the lowest possible roll then add the highest possible roll then devide by two. I.e., shortsword +1: 1d6+1, 2+7=9, then 9/2=4.5.

2. I then calculate the discard average using the same method as #1. Reveal damage has an edge on discard damage because it alows you to keep the card, but this value diminishes if you have a character that draws weapons often, as discarding them isen't as big a deal.

3. I then look at damage subtype and energy damage. Eventually I make sure my character has a nice balance between his weapons. For example, fire damage and magic damage eventually become 'a must' at least somewhere amount his equipment. I also tend to have at least 1 bludgeoning weapon too, ect...

4. What weapon has a higher difficulty check to acquire? Usually this is the fastest and easiest way to calculate early in the game, but doesn't always work as the game goes on.

5. How many hands does the weapon require? This is likely the least important, as two-handed weapon rarely become a problem because shields (like armor) are weakest category of items (dissapointly so). The number of hands the weapon uses also skews the difficulty check making 1 handed weapon with lower damage have higher difficulty checks than two-handed weapons that do more damage.

6. Finally, I look at the extra-special abilities, then factor that in. I.e., whenever you kill a monster with this item, you can recharge a card.


There are a couple other things I can talk about my choices, but I think this is a good start.


I'm very interested in anybody that has a fast method or a good online resource for their methodology, but I'd love to hear from anyone willing to share theirs. Cheers!

#2
Eumaios

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I like your list and I was going to discuss each bullet point in depth, but that just seems too nerdy. My one golden rule is: all things being equal, basement always beats ceiling damage with the exception of:


1. -1 to each die roll, where the basement damage can be greatly lowered depending on the number of dice you're rolling. Having a good bunch of larger dice types helps get past the disadvantage.

and


2. The scenario where all 1, 2, and 3 rolls are treated as zero. That really bites. I would also point out that some characters recharge rather than discard and Val can reshuffle which is even better.

Discard values mean a lot more when you know you're going to recharge your weapon after battle. Reshuffle isn't as vital, but it is a way to make sure you don't end up with all of your weapons at the bottom of your deck. Some monsters need fire, which you've cited already. On the other hand, while it's not that big of a deal at first, the whole last deck is filled with henchmen who are immune to a couple big damage types. That great big shocking two handed sword isn't worth it for Val as far as I'm concerned. Has great upper threshold, which isn't as important as making sure you've got the minimum value anyway but, even worse, you can't use the discard ability against a ton of monsters. Force, brother, is the way to go. Poison, on weapons, is not. Too many undead throughout the game. However, even so, having one or two poison weapons isn't so bad as long as you've got other weapons. You'll still get the base damage. You just lose the opportunity to discard for greater output.

For melee, there're at least a scythe and a falchion that have a ton of small die that turn 4s into... 6s? I can't remember exactly, but the upshot is that they're great weapons. Still, a lot of 4s is good because you're guaranteed a good basement, but you don't have a lot of room to play with the ceiling with a bunch of d4. You can't always make success certain and enough larger dice make technically uncertain rolls almost certain. I've virtually never missed where I calculated the chances of missing as so statistically implausible that it wasn't worth worrying about it. I say virtually because I can't remember one, but one may have occurred. I have, on occasion, missed rolls that I was reasonably assured a positive outcome. Nail biters where I just couldn't see using the resources to make the roll certain have often gone against me.

I've played through with sinper Harsk with and without the weapon recharge ability and, in my opinion, recharge is simply the way to go. However, and this is also something you cited above, the extra die on discard is strength on a some ranged stuff, particularly bows, which means a lot less to our dwarvish friend.

Anyhow, gone on for some time, hopefully at least somewhat cogent.

#3
Chicken The God

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I like your list and I was going to discuss each bullet point in depth, but that just seems too nerdy. My one golden rule is: all things being equal, basement always beats ceiling damage with the exception of:1. -1 to each die roll, where the basement damage can be greatly lowered depending on the number of dice you're rolling. Having a good bunch of larger dice types helps get past the disadvantage.and2. The scenario where all 1, 2, and 3 rolls are treated as zero. That really bites. I would also point out that some characters recharge rather than discard and Val can reshuffle which is even better.Discard values mean a lot more when you know you're going to recharge your weapon after battle. Reshuffle isn't as vital, but it is a way to make sure you don't end up with all of your weapons at the bottom of your deck. Some monsters need fire, which you've cited already. On the other hand, while it's not that big of a deal at first, the whole last deck is filled with henchmen who are immune to a couple big damage types. That great big shocking two handed sword isn't worth it for Val as far as I'm concerned. Has great upper threshold, which isn't as important as making sure you've got the minimum value anyway but, even worse, you can't use the discard ability against a ton of monsters. Force, brother, is the way to go. Poison, on weapons, is not. Too many undead throughout the game. However, even so, having one or two poison weapons isn't so bad as long as you've got other weapons. You'll still get the base damage. You just lose the opportunity to discard for greater output.For melee, there're at least a scythe and a falchion that have a ton of small die that turn 4s into... 6s? I can't remember exactly, but the upshot is that they're great weapons. Still, a lot of 4s is good because you're guaranteed a good basement, but you don't have a lot of room to play with the ceiling with a bunch of d4. You can't always make success certain and enough larger dice make technically uncertain rolls almost certain. I've virtually never missed where I calculated the chances of missing as so statistically implausible that it wasn't worth worrying about it. I say virtually because I can't remember one, but one may have occurred. I have, on occasion, missed rolls that I was reasonably assured a positive outcome. Nail biters where I just couldn't see using the resources to make the roll certain have often gone against me.I've played through with sinper Harsk with and without the weapon recharge ability and, in my opinion, recharge is simply the way to go. However, and this is also something you cited above, the extra die on discard is strength on a some ranged stuff, particularly bows, which means a lot less to our dwarvish friend.Anyhow, gone on for some time, hopefully at least somewhat cogent.



1st off, great stuff all good points.

I agree about 'basement' damage, 1 of my character's has been using a magical scythe for the longest time and seem to always nudge out the competition. In terms of 'bonus damage when you roll X', I always prefer that X=the lowest numbers rather than the highest numbers for the exact reasons you discussed. Weirdly enough, my scythe fits into both categories discussed here. It's great because about have multiple dice, but that bonus +1 when i roll a 4 would have been a lot more valuable if it wall on a roll of 1. I remember an early weapon called 'dogslicer' or something that modified 1's into 3's, needless to say, that was a really beneficial ability. The only problem about these abilities is that they make calculating the average damage of a roll slightly more complicated and annoying.

I also agree about the riskiness of poison damage, seems too often my poison weapon had a lock on it 50% of the time.

Good point about characters who recycle weapons, that also is a factor that should be on the list. My current party has great spell recycle right now, but not as good weapon recycle. Although my barbarian holds enough weapons (with little investment in weapon card feats) that I rarely mind just discarding for full damage as I hate getting stuck with too many weapons in my hand.

I remember calculating similar weapon choices when I used to play d&d 3.5, but, honestly, its a lot more complicated calculating it in this game because of all the factors such as, discard, reveal, recharge. Also the cost of a weapon was a lot more accurate of a weapon's value in d&d than the difficulty modifiers in pathfinder card game.


Maybe after we get enough input from a lot of users, I can streamline these tips/tricks into a guide for beginners or other players looking it up.

And feel free to add your 'nerdy' input---we are waaay beyond that threshold here: we are using a mathematical approach to discussing fantasy weapons in a video game based on a solo playing board game, which is based on, arguably, the most famous nerd game (d&d/pathfinder). Don't worry we can chug beers, watch football and talk about women after we get through this to balance the scales :)
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#4
Eumaios

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"And feel free to add your 'nerdy' input -- we are waaay beyond that threshold here" made me laugh out loud. Hopefully some other folks join the discussion.




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