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How to survive with Seelah?


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18 replies to this topic

#1
Tiltowait

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First game.

First card...Shadow.  

Second card...Shadow.

Third card...Shadow.

Fourth card...Shadow.

Fifth card...oops she dead now. 

 

No way to customize her deck otherwise I'd drop Cure for a damage spell for a 1 in 15 chance of having a magic trait for when you run into the same monster 5 turns in a row. Customize deck no longer shows all common cards as it did before. It only shows the same crap set they start her with (all slashing vs. skeleton / magic only heavy decks)


Edited by Tiltowait, 31 January 2017 - 06:43 PM.


#2
nsr

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I suggest moving her to a different location until the Shadow is killed (although probably in your next game you won't run into it again).  Kyra can kill undead without needing magic weapons.  Ezren and Seoni have spells that add the magic trait.



#3
TheSapient

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This seems like extremely bad luck that is exceedingly unlikely to repeat itself.



#4
Faray

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This is why IMO, you shouldn't play this game with just 1 character. 

 

I'm not sure why you died though, you can still do the combat check, you just won't be able to defeat it, but you won't lose any cards. 



#5
chaosticket

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Seelah is terrible solo. In general always have someone else to help like giving her a weapon if she doesnt start with one or healing.

 

Upgrading her to be much more combat capableis necessary. She needs to the best melee weapons you can get. Get more weapon slots. She cant do much without a weapon and unfortunately you DONT have Weapons as your Favored(aka starting) card.

 

That said she does eventually become a Blessing factory at about 4 Power Feats where she can carry 8 Blessings to recharge(Iomedae though) instead of discarding. She also has Crusade which allows you to go through locations quickly and gets significantly better with additional feats.

 

Shes just really hard to grind for a while.



#6
aksFourpaws

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Seelah is terrible solo. In general always have someone else to help like giving her a weapon if she doesnt start with one or healing.

 

Upgrading her to be much more combat capableis necessary. She needs to the best melee weapons you can get. Get more weapon slots. She cant do much without a weapon and unfortunately you DONT have Weapons as your Favored(aka starting) card.

 

As a disclaimer, the Paladin is my favorite Class since AD&D second Edition, so my Opinion is probably highly biased.

 

This opinion baffles and amuses me ever since the boardgame came out. So how long? 3 years?

 

After all she is the only character that CAN beat any corporeal Monster, Henchmen and most of the Villains up to and including AD3 WITHOUT a single card in her hand. Notice the can, you won't win them all. Just often enough to probably get what you want from your deck. I won complete Games without ever getting a weapon ito my hand.

Rolling the Equivalent of a d10 on every roll you want is not bad either, even if it scales badly with blessings. Take a look into support magic and you will be a lot happier.

 

For being terrible solo: I soloed heroic and legendary difficulty with her without any troubles well into AD4. And for a note I havn't finished AD5 yet so no, she isn't maxed out.

Seelah is the Character I add when the rest of the party struggles with a game.

 

I also disagree a bit on the upgrade priorities. I usually go with recharge Spells on inspired Grace first, followed by an increased handsize. That means also investing into additional Spellslots first, before dipping into Blessings and Allies. A fourth weaponslot is nice to have, but it can wait a while until you can get some better weapons for it.

Ironicaly with formal Seelah I am contemplating buying the third Armor Slot. There are some really nice Supportive Armors in the treasure Chests.


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#7
Hannibal_PJV

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So true, there Are no bad characters just different types of playing them!

#8
Edannan

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Seelah is terrible solo. In general always have someone else to help like giving her a weapon if she doesnt start with one or healing.

 

Upgrading her to be much more combat capableis necessary. She needs to the best melee weapons you can get. Get more weapon slots. She cant do much without a weapon and unfortunately you DONT have Weapons as your Favored(aka starting) card.

 

As a disclaimer, the Paladin is my favorite Class since AD&D second Edition, so my Opinion is probably highly biased.

 

This opinion baffles and amuses me ever since the boardgame came out. So how long? 3 years?

 

After all she is the only character that CAN beat any corporeal Monster, Henchmen and most of the Villains up to and including AD3 WITHOUT a single card in her hand. Notice the can, you won't win them all. Just often enough to probably get what you want from your deck. I won complete Games without ever getting a weapon ito my hand.

Rolling the Equivalent of a d10 on every roll you want is not bad either, even if it scales badly with blessings. Take a look into support magic and you will be a lot happier.

 

For being terrible solo: I soloed heroic and legendary difficulty with her without any troubles well into AD4. And for a note I havn't finished AD5 yet so no, she isn't maxed out.

Seelah is the Character I add when the rest of the party struggles with a game.

 

I also disagree a bit on the upgrade priorities. I usually go with recharge Spells on inspired Grace first, followed by an increased handsize. That means also investing into additional Spellslots first, before dipping into Blessings and Allies. A fourth weaponslot is nice to have, but it can wait a while until you can get some better weapons for it.

Ironicaly with formal Seelah I am contemplating buying the third Armor Slot. There are some really nice Supportive Armors in the treasure Chests.

 

 

Yeah, I'm a little baffled as well. Other than possibly Lini, Seelah's the most flexible solo character in existence. Yes, she can be a little slow out the gate due to hand size (I'm a little on the fence as to whether it's best to get the 5 hand size or the recharge spells for Inspired Grace first), but total agreement that her card upgrades should always be spells/blessings until maxed out. I also tend to give her nothing but Cure spells. She pretty much becomes immortal after a while.

 

To the OP, hitting Shadow in an early scenario sucks, but it's just bad luck. It's one of only a very few monsters that require Magic/Fire in the B deck (Might be the only one, I'd have to check the Gallery). Move to other locations and finish them off first so that the Villain is in the deck with the Shadow and just keep exploring till you hit the villain and close the location.

You'd have the same problem with Valeros, Amiri, Harsk, Merisel, or Sajan.


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#9
Celedhring

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To the OP, hitting Shadow in an early scenario sucks, but it's just bad luck. It's one of only a very few monsters that require Magic/Fire in the B deck (Might be the only one, I'd have to check the Gallery). Move to other locations and finish them off first so that the Villain is in the deck with the Shadow and just keep exploring till you hit the villain and close the location.

You'd have the same problem with Valeros, Amiri, Harsk, Merisel, or Sajan.

 

 

Shadow is a Deck 1 character, so the chances of having acquired Magic weapons when you first face it are greater. That said, Deck B has the Spectre which is really annoying at that point in the game.

 

Sajan starts with an Amulet of Mighty Fists, so he can deal with magic only monsters.



#10
chaosticket

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Well OP either neglected to get magic weapons or really meant FIRST game ever using Seelah. I would think after the first encounter with an Incorporeal(invincible against non-magic) you would move or forfeit to try again.

 

However its interesting from what Ive read that other players went in the opposite direction I went. I go for increasing Seelah's practical usage. Inspiring Grace would take a while to minimize the damage from feats so a simple melee weapon like a Great Sword or Bastard Sword +1 are much more practical.

 

That doesnt mean its bad. I can still see that as a viable option to use Inspired Grace from everything between combat, boons, banes, closings, spell recharges. Its not for my first choice because its so risky to burn through your own deck without key feats at least let you keep from discarding your Cure Spells, weapons, and the rest. You would need multiple Cure's and Iomedae's Benediction feat to keep a stable deck size.

 

Thanks for that character build.


Edited by chaosticket, 17 February 2017 - 04:42 PM.


#11
wakasm

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As other's have said, immediately moving to another location and hunting down henchmen + villain's is your only play if it's early and you don't have any method of adding magic to a check.  You can still win the check without defeating that monster to cause the location to shuffle - then move and hope that later you can get the villain into this location.  

 

Seelah is terrible solo.

 

+1 to the bafflement of this as well.  I don't even have a comment for this lol.  Unless by terrible, you meant not terrible.


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#12
chaosticket

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Hey if you burn through everything but your blessings by using Inspiring Grace that is dangerous.

 

However like I said earlier it could work by focusing on increasing your number of blessings and spells. In that case half your deck get recharged by using it. Just a couple power feats means you dont discard your Cure spells when using it and you can give a D6+1 to everything, including your spell recharge rolls.

 

Its still risky for combats. A melee weapon is stronger and reusable.

 

So again thanks for the build Idea. Going directly for 8 Blessing and 3 spells would give Seelah good closing ability and major at about tier 4 with rechargeable Blessings.



#13
Ethics Gradient

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However like I said earlier it could work by focusing on increasing your number of blessings and spells. In that case half your deck get recharged by using it. Just a couple power feats means you dont discard your Cure spells when using it and you can give a D6+1 to everything, including your spell recharge rolls.

It works very well, which is possibly why you are confusing everyone by downplaying her solo utility.   :p

 

Ceaseless Crusade burns through location decks to find the henchman/villain.

 

Inspired Grace/Iomedae's Benediction and maxed out Spell/Blessing slots means you have a >50% chance of adding 1d6+x to everything at no cost.  Carry a healing spell or opt for Healing Hands you can recover the occasional cards that slip through the cracks.

 

Inheritor's Favor additionally gives you a pretty decent chance at getting free explores or bonus dice by recharging certain blessings instead of discarding them.

 

If you rate characters on their ability in combat, Seelah may not be the number one crusher.  But if you rate characters on their ability to clear locations and win the game, Seelah has you covered.  The powers may not seem like much taken alone, but the combination is pretty magical.


Edited by Ethics Gradient, 18 February 2017 - 05:58 PM.

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#14
chaosticket

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We are not actually arguing. My default objective is to heavily focus on increasing Seelah's combat ability. Max her weapon slots, all skill points to strength, and then go after blessings and spells.

 

The alternative I see is the other way by focusing on Blessing and Spells first off. I dont know if Strength is passed over for Wisdom/Charisma but Ill assume it is. In that case she is poor in combat but great for support.

 

Both paths can meet up eventually. Its a question of whether Inspiring Grace is your main focus on power feats. Until now I would pick just about everything else.



#15
Ethics Gradient

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Actually, I had much the same opinion of Seelah early-on.  Average combat ability, no items, favored card is Armor (ugh)...  Even one of the actual designers of the game thought so too, before he changed his ways.

 

[Chad's Best Character Ever: Seelah]

 

But her talent isn't combat, or defeating barriers, or support, it's closing locations and winning games.  She's the only character that reliably offsets the burden of an additional location deck when she's added to the party.

 

There may be no specific check she excels at, but drawing out villains and crashing through locations has a quality all it's own.



#16
wakasm

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Another way of thinking:  

 

All characters can fight things decently well in Pathfinder. When ALL characters can do a thing well, it doesn't really matter anymore who is the best at that thing.

Instead the weight of value falls to what makes the character unique from the other characters, including, how efficient their uniqueness works in the scope of action conservation, because the only real enemy in Pathfinder is the Blessing Deck.   

 

Seelah is all about efficiency.  

  • Free examines every turn BEFORE moving which means she can easily make choices for her free explore each turn, such as changing locations should she see something she can't deal with, or if she discovers a villian/henchmen/barrier/etc (Harsk can't do this since his happens at the end of turn, only Merisiel has the same flexibility because of her evasion)
  • The equivalent of a free explore when she encounters a boon, because she can just take that card and make it go to the bottom of a location deck (No one in RoTR can do this)
  • She punches with no weapon for a d8 + 2 + (d6) at Adventure Path B .  
  • 40%-58% free ability to add 1d6 + X to ANY check from their deck (not hand!) (No one in RoTR can do this from their deck, only a few can do this with cards in hand). This effectively means that even though her hand size is only 4, her available pool of cards is effectively 4 + X  where X is how many explores she gets on any turn.  Even in an "unlucky" hand draw of 4 blessings, she effectively has access to 9 cards, and keep in mind, she punches pretty hard...
  • She has high charisma, which means she can often explore Ally-rich locations, and turn them into more explores on the same turn
  • All her power feat points synergize strongly with these abilities. 
  • She benefits from being a fighter and a spell caster, which means she has a ton of flexibility with utility, like carrying a cure or types of weapons she can choose to use (or her bare hands)
  • Gets a lot of blessings for many explores, second only to Sajan

Her only downside is that Armor in RoTR is pretty lackluster, or else she'd be even stronger.  Even then, her armor still lets her do what she does best, which is Explore, Explore, Explore with very little risk, since she can often just soak any damage and try again after the first easy and free explore!

 

Her other downside is that when you get unlucky deck draws when boosting your checks, it can be a setback, and this is why most people rule her out when they first use her, because it's most noticable at Adventure Path B... but... it's really really really easy to reset her back to form with healing. 

 

We are not actually arguing. My default objective is to heavily focus on increasing Seelah's combat ability. Max her weapon slots, all skill points to strength, and then go after blessings and spells.

 

You can very much do the focus on strength part, but no need for maxing weapons... she literally just punches things without a weapon for:

  • D8 + D6 + 2 at Adventure Path B
  • D8 + 4 + 2 + (1d6 + 3) + (((1d8 + magic)))(if undead) at Adventure Path 6

Until at least you draw a weapon, which then, she murders things like everyone else.  And when it's not enough... she just tanks the damage with her armor, laughs, and ultimately moves on with her life to do it again.  And if the armor doesn't work, her small hand size let's her recover just as easily from mistakes.


Edited by wakasm, 19 February 2017 - 12:11 AM.

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#17
chaosticket

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Now that causes argument.

 

So I dont think she is good solo AT FIRST. She can be great at that but it takes a while. I dont understand why youre downplaying it like she is flawless.

 

For now Ill try 2 paladins. One start with weapons and the other getting spells.


Edited by chaosticket, 19 February 2017 - 05:51 AM.


#18
DrDior

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Once you get Seelah Ceasless Crusade, Inheritor's Favor and Iomedae's Benediction, she is hands down the most awesome solo character in the game.  Note that she encounters monsters so quickly that you must play her as a weapon  attacker.

 

I give her 3 Improved Guidance (+3 to any check) and 2 Evangelist (+1 to your check, or recharge for 1-4).  These raise your minimum roll substantially for the most difficult checks. 

Her blessing (Iomedae) and spells all recharge automatically.  Before being fully developed, you may miss a recharge on a roll of a 1. 

 

I find that 4 weapons and 3 armors are plenty.  If they can be recharged even better.  I used to carry one heal, but I do not carry it any more. 

 

So in the worst case you don't start with a weapon, but you can still handle almost any encounter.  Then you cycle so quickly, you get your best weapons and armors in no time.  I even will discard non-rechargeable weapon to thin my deck to all blessings and spells. 

 

So her weakness is intelligence and dexterity.  I've raised the bottom of my rolls by 4 (or more), and I have blessings to recharge....what's the problem?


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#19
chaosticket

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Missing a few steps there.

 

1 or 2 Early On getting strong weapons, magic armor(to recharge when not needed), and looking for Blessings of Gorum are my suggestion. Putting Card feats in Weapons and having a Hand Size of 5 makes her alot better both personally and gives her more support from having more options in her hand especially blessings.

 

Thats a solid way to survive early on.

 

2 or 1  Blessings or Spells are also important, possibly enough to get before weapons. I think Spells should have higher priority mainly as you would have 6 blessings and 1-3 Cure spells to allow you recover your spent blessings often. That is doubly so if you use Inspired Grace often.

 

3 Later at tier 4+ you can pick one of the most unusual and powerful power feats, Iomedae's Favor. It only works on a Blessings of Iomedae, so less powerful blessings but more versatile as they now recharge.

 

Early on you can focus on weapons, blessings, or spells. Its that you have all three later on which gives the Paladin its strengths. A Fighter only have 4 blessings maximum. a Paladin can have 8 recharging blessings


Edited by chaosticket, 20 February 2017 - 10:39 AM.





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