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Are the new Equipment Sets better?


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#1
Pediatron

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So after reading the changes in the various character stats and abilities, I am wondering if people think these changes are actually overall improvements for each of the characters. IMO Ezren's changes look better, Valeros not so much, etc. Would love people's opinions both just looking at the stats and after playing them.  Thought this might be a fun thread.



#2
Doppelschwert

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I think everyone is slightly better balanced in the alternate roles, except for valeros and sajan.

 

The skill changes mostly turn the characters from min-maxed to more balanced - personally, I think one of the biggest issues is to be able to cope with checks that characters are not good at, and a single raise from d4 to d6 makes multiple blessings scale up much much faster. They also improve survival, which is crucial for the later ADs of RotR, so thats important as well.

I don't like the change for sajan here, since monks are all about wisdom in the rpg, and wisdom is much more important than charisma for the banes in RotR.

 

The card feats mostly reduce high weapons or armor counts in favor for cards that grant explorations and may be recharged, resulting in a more active deck that doesn't clog your hand, which is also positive in my book.

I don't like valeros here, since he's the only one where its the other way around.

 

Overall, its mostly little buffs that either patch up weaknesses of the characters from todays point of view (3 base sets later) or just improve them in general. I think they did a very good job overall!

 

However, I would have prefered a more drastically changed sajan.

Don't get me wrong, apart from the wisdom/charisma change, the changes certainly help with both of his roles, so they are well designed.

However, as a monk player, I thematically never liked his roles much to begin with. Classically, monks are martial artists in melee, and sajan is even depicted with his temple sword that he uses in the rpg. However, in RotR, it's strictly better to use ranged dexterity weapons, and that never sat well with me. I would've liked more support for melee weapons in some way, granting him the melee: dexterity skill for weapons with the finesse trait for example.

Class deck sajan is one of my favourite characters, as he is all about using swords, but the RotR version is just too far away conceptually I guess.


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#3
jwfent

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I believe Lem is the most improved just looking at the stat changes. He is only one I bought so far but I plan to buy more. 



#4
Longshot11

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Seelah's Divine moving to Charisma AND giving her a Diplomacy skill AND removing an Armor slot is probably the most awesome change overall.

 

Agree that Val's extra "most useless card type in RotR" armor sucks.

Drunken Master Sajan players should also note that his alt's reduced Fortitude may cripple their build a bit.



#5
Thyraxus

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My favorite has to be the change to Harsk. D8 instead of D6 for Wisdom is especially nice once you pick up Nature's Gift and start using divine spells, and the tradeoff of having only a to a D10 in Constitution is a small price to pay - CON checks happen rarely enough for that big D12 to seem quite a bit wasted there. And giving up one weapon (4 is still plenty) for another ally is a definite win in my opinion, too.


Edited by Thyraxus, 21 December 2016 - 09:51 AM.


#6
Oh_Emgee

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There are hits, some misses, and some that are just different.

 

Strictly Better:

 

Seelah

  • Normalization of dice instead of specialization [d8/d4 for CON/INT to d6]
  • Casting now uses larger die [and has +1 Diplomacy on same die for synergy]
  • Trades Armor [dead card] for Item [heal staff, melee ioun, CHA headband, staves, lots of options]
  • Only drawback is -1 Melee

 

Lem

  • Higher DEX [which he uses for Ranged attacks, which he has a card slot for and proficiency in]
  • Lower WIS [which he doesn't use regularly and can boost incidental checks with his recharge power]
  • Trades Diplomacy [from a stat that he already has considerable strength in] for Knowledge [commonly-used and boosts a weaker die]
  • Gains armor proficiency

 

Kyra

  • Higher STR and Melee [traded for one point of Fortitude and one step in her primary casting die]
  • Trades an Armor [dead card] for a Weapon [which helps, since she isn't guaranteed to start with one in her hand]
  • Bonus undead damage

 

Harsk

  • Bigger hand size [yes pls]
  • Higher WIS and Survival [synergizes with his powers]
  • Lower CON and Fortitude [still higher than most, and not directly usable]
  • Trades a Weapon [he already has several, and can recharge any card to give combat bonuses to others] for an Ally [explore, synergizes with powers]

 

Ezren

  • Higher WIS [helps get Divine spells when exploring, which still triggers his power]
  • Lower DEX and loss of Weapon [which he isn't great with anyway, and this actually clears his deck out, making it even more recyclable and synergistic with his powers]
  • Loses 1 Arcane [which he already has an enormous amount of] for 1 Knowledge [commonly-used, helps close difficult locations and get rare items]
  • +1 Item [which he, arguably, puts to better use than anyone else, as the only primary INT-based character, now has more room for Necklaces of Fireballs, Amulet of Inescapable Location, etc.]
  • Can grab items in addition to spells [meaning that Allies are the only cards he cannot grab when he casts spells]

Amiri:

  • Trades higher CON [synergizes with her powers] for lower CHA [arguably a dump stat for her]
  • Trades a Weapon [which she is guaranteed to start with and she has plenty of already] for an Ally [explore]
  • Makes her Berserk power even more useful [especially outside of combat]

   

 

Simply Alternative:

 

Seoni

  • Lower CHA die countered in combat by +1 Arcane [but also hit with -1 Diplomacy]
  • Better dice and less-resisted cold type for power [but no backup fire for trolls]
  • +1 Spell that is always rechargeable [at the cost of 1 Blessing, which can be an explore or boost for others]
  • Higher DEX die [good but not particularly usable outside of small bonus on random checks]

 

Lini

  • Higher DEX is less helpful when she can discard to make it a d12 [and withg her predilection for high-crit Melee based on STR]
  • Gains +1 to the frequently-used Survival [but loses the same to the also-frequently-used Knowledge]
  • Raises a stat she can improve anyway and loses a stat she cannot, gains additional Ally [fantastic with her power] but loses an Item [which she doesn't have many of]

Merisiel

  • Trades STR [actually does make some bows less useful, like Black Arrow Longbow] for WIS [helps her Perception and synergizes with her powers]
  • Trades the more-useful Acrobatics [dodging dragon attacks, anyone?] for the less-useful Stealth [only closes a couple locations and helps acquire Ven Vinder, AFAIK]
  • Trades an Ally [explore] for a Blessing [explore or Boost, probably a good trade]
  • Gets +1 to combat when alone and discarding a card [risky, her power is arguably better when just recharging, though a free benefit is never a bad thing]

 

Strictly Worse:

 

Valeros

  • Lowered Melee [his primary role]
  • Specializing dice instead of keeping high average [d8s in dex/con to d6/d10]
  • Trades an Ally [explore] for an Armor [dead card]

 

Sajan

  • Pointless switch of WIS and CHA
  • Trade point in the more-useful Fortitude for the less-useful Acrobatics [lowering efficiency for Drunken Master]
  • Addition of comparatively useless Craft
  • Trades an Ally [explore] for a Weapon [which he doesn't start with proficiency with and nullifies one of his powers]

Overall, I think that Harsk, Lem, and Ezren get flat-out better, Seelah, Kyra and Amiri get considerable benefits with only slight losses, Seoni and Lini make out about even (with changes to their playstyles), and Sajan and Valeros trade very useful elements for less-useful ones.

 

Merisiel is tricky - one could argue that she breaks even, but I think that she loses too much to make the trade worthwhile. +WIS is nice for Perception, and it can be used to help her Item-recharge ability, but that power is rarely worth it for her. STR is nice to have, especially when using Black Arrow or Frost Longbows. I find that Acrobatics is helpful far more often than Stealth, and I seldom get into battles that I need to Discard cards for Sneak Attack in order to win. Usually, I either recharge them for a modest bonus or evade the fight if it is too risky.

 

Anwho, there's my two cents! I can't wait to get that Ezren and Harsk! :3


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#7
Doppelschwert

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Thanks for the write-up!

I agree with most of your analysis, except for seoni and sajan.

 

 


Seoni

  • Lower CHA die countered in combat by +1 Arcane [but also hit with -1 Diplomacy]
  • Better dice and less-resisted cold type for power [but no backup fire for trolls]
  • +1 Spell that is always rechargeable [at the cost of 1 Blessing, which can be an explore or boost for others]
  • Higher DEX die [good but not particularly usable outside of small bonus on random checks]

 

Sajan

  • Pointless switch of WIS and CHA
  • Trade point in the more-useful Fortitude for the less-useful Acrobatics [lowering efficiency for Drunken Master]
  • Addition of comparatively useless Craft
  • Trades an Ally [explore] for a Weapon [which he doesn't start with proficiency with and nullifies one of his powers]

 

 

Seoni becomes much better with an additional spell slot. More rechargable cards make the deck recycling much smoother, so this really helps her a lot. Another copy of haste lets you explore just like the blessing she is losing, but she can use it multiple times during a scenario due to the recharge without the need of healing. Apart from that, you might as well choose any other spell for added versatility.

You're really only losing a potential one-time buff for one check, which is not her primary role anyway. When I play her aggressively, I always end up with her decked thinned to the point of only consisting of rechargable cards, and this change helps a lot.

 

Sajans weapon slot is actually very useful. Playing a heavy crossbow (a B card!) is essentially the same as playing a blessing for his combat check, with the potential downside that it lacks the magic trait, but the advantage that it stays in his hand. This helps a lot in the number of combat checks he can succesfully deal with in a single turn.

For combat purposes, a weapon slot is more or less superior to a blessing, so he traded an ally [exploration] for an superior combat tool, which frees up a blessing you don't need for combat and can use for other things [exploration, buff]. In a way, you get to use a blessing for that ally he loses, which is an upgrade IMHO.

I think the intention of adding craft was to give his drunken master role an easier time with acquiring potions, at the disadvantage of making it harder to keep them around. I'm not a fan of potions in RotR besides the healing potion, so I'm not so interested in this role either, but I guess it was meant as a sidegrade rather than downgrade of that role for certain playstyles. In particular, he now has an easier time to allocate some potions before actually getting to his role. I'd personally agree that the fortitutde is more important for this role, but I can see a playstyle where its helpful.



#8
Oh_Emgee

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Thanks for the feedback!

 

Like I said, I don't think Seoni got a bad trade - I just don't think she got a particularly useful one. I wholly agree with you that the +1 spell slot is the best benefit from the switch. Especially considering the new spells in AD6...  :yes:

 

Otherwise, I think the rest of her changes are middling. I'll always take 2d4 isntead of 1d6, and there seem to be fewer enemies resistant to Cold compared to Fire. That said, I loved having a back-up Troll-killing ability with Seoni, as it lets me stock her up with more universally-helpful spells like Haste, Scrying, Disintegrate, Swipe, and now Bewilder. I love having Diplomacy available to snag additional Allies when questing, but the trade for Arcane is great. The DEX boost seems a bit odd to me, seeing as how she doesn't have a pocket weapon slot like Ezren or Lem. In my experience, I'd rather have benefits that I can actively plan on and take advantage of than a passive chance at a benefit in unpredictable circumstances (like needing to roll a DEX save for a Falling Bell or whatnot). After all, I usually just let the ill effects through and use a Sihedron Medallion to ignore them.

 

Now Sajan, on the other hand, I think really does lose too much with the switch. Having been playing the Pathfinder RPG since the beta, there's something flat-out wrong to me about a monk eschewing WIS for higher CHA, especially if there isn't a specific build or benefit in mind. Acrobatics and Fortitude are at best a wash, but Craft? I think you may have hit the nail on the head with the developers' intent for this on Sajan with the potion-grabbing, but even considering that, how effective would that strategy be? Like you stated, potions aren't that great, even with the Drunken Master abilities. Why dilute them further by reducing your chance to keep them around?

 

The point I'll actually argue will be on his use of weapons - especially when comparing the trade of one for a Blessing. Even if you have a weapon in-hand that provides the same statistical benefit to Sajan's combat check, it is still inferior to a blessing (any blessing) in almost every way. Here's some things to consider:

  • The weapon can only be used for combat checks, nothing else. The blessing, on the other hand, can be used for absolutely anything (or anyone).
  • The weapon will most likely sit in Sajan's hand (unless you choose a cycling Ranged weapon like a Venomous Dagger +1 or Returning Flaming Throwing Axe +1). Even if you use a recharging thrown weapon, any Blessing will do the same thing for Sajan.
  • Sajan's favored card is Item, and an Amulet of Flaming Fists is a much better replacement for a ranged weapon. If Sajan has, say, 6 items in his deck, he has at LEAST a 1/6 of his guaranteed item being that Amulet. Then, with the rest of the cards in hsi starting hand, he has five MORE chances of getting the Amulet than he would drawing a Crossbow.
  • Sajan's ability to get weapon-level strength in combat checks without using a weapon or spell makes him AMAZING in later missions, especially against Warchanter-like monsters (Harpy, I'm looking at you!) that can make your either 1) unable to use a weapon or spell, or 2) waste resources passing a check in order to USE said weapon or spell.
  • Tack on that each of the Amulets of ____-y Fists give Sajan the Magic trait and an element; this makes them demonstrably better than simple, non-magical weapons like a crossbow. Additionally, if you end up with the Fiery Fist, you can avoid taking his Power that gives him the ability to add Fire to his unarmed strikes (always handy in case of Trolls).
  • Sajan doesn't have the Ranged skill, so these styles are inherently equal in plain statistics. This changes when you consider other cards to include! Consider Shalelu Andosana or an Archer vs a Sabertooth Tiger, Soldier, Orc Assassin (can't recall the new name), etc. With ranged-boosting allies, they are only useful if Sajan has that ONE weapon in his hand; otherwise, they cannot add to his Melee check. Focusing on his Melee with an Amulet, however, makes these allies useful whether or not the Amulet is in his hand! (This said, I love to give him Black Arrow Rangers, which essentially do both...)


#9
Thyraxus

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I loved having a back-up Troll-killing ability with Seoni, as it lets me stock her up with more universally-helpful spells

But the description for her Stormfire power says that it adds the Cold and Fire traits to the check. Now, I haven't tried it (not enough gold to buy her yet) but by my understanding that should mean that it deals with trolls just fine.

 

That said, it would be better if it would let you choose between Cold or Fire so you have a way for dealing with fire-resistant critters. But that would be pretty much equivalent to her having Acid Blast right from the start (instead of having to earn a Role first and spend a power feat for it), so I guess due mainly to balance reasons it has to be both.


Edited by Thyraxus, 22 December 2016 - 01:27 AM.


#10
Oh_Emgee

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Oh hoho! It appears I misread that. Thanks for the catch! I think that certainly tips the scales for Seoni. I think the Diplomacy hit is the only serious drawback now, and it is well worth the benefits.

#11
Doppelschwert

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The point I'll actually argue will be on his use of weapons - especially when comparing the trade of one for a Blessing. Even if you have a weapon in-hand that provides the same statistical benefit to Sajan's combat check, it is still inferior to a blessing (any blessing) in almost every way. Here's some things to consider:

 

Those are all valid points. I think a lot comes down to playstyle and party size. In larger parties, blessings are certainly more important, and since you can split sequential checks, it suffices to use all the blessings on a single combat check.

 

However, I use sajan in parties of at most 3 characters, and often solo. The amulets are nice, but I'm playing with treasure cards off, so the box contains a single fiery amulet, which I put in my deck in addition to the crossbow. I'm bound to get damaged at some point from something like the enchantress, so its nice to have a backup weapon.

 

All I can really say is that I played through the (physical) game once without ranged weapons, but now that I'm playing with a ranged weapon, I feel like I'm having an easier time - mostly because whenever a villain demands sequential checks, my average combat is a little higher than with the amulet, and I don't need to care for resistances against fire. (Note that I would happily prefer feeling that the amulet is stronger, since I don't like the ranged weapons for a monk conceptually, but from my experience so far, I can't).

The bonus against warchanter enemies stays, I just don't use the weapon in that case.

 

Once you hit AD6, there is also the force sling +3, which gives 1d6+3, so 2 points above the expected roll of an amulet and less variance.


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#12
jumpthegun

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Seelah still definitely OP



#13
StormbringerGT

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I wonder why we gave Sajan Craft?! Hmmmmmm.....


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#14
Longshot11

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I wonder why we gave Sajan Craft?! Hmmmmmm.....

Tuh-duh-Duh-DUHNNN!!

 

 

CONFIRMED! Ships are coming to Rise of the Runelords!


Edited by Longshot11, 23 December 2016 - 03:35 AM.

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#15
Oh_Emgee

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However, I use sajan in parties of at most 3 characters, and often solo. The amulets are nice, but I'm playing with treasure cards off, so the box contains a single fiery amulet, which I put in my deck in addition to the crossbow. 

 

Excellent points. Without treasure, I can see where that'd be a good way to go. And as far as characters, that's also a keen observation. I've started only using groups of five and six for the challenge, so blessings are essentially gold - more explores, usable by everyone, etc. Solo or with fewer allies, I can certainly see where keeping a static bonus in-hand would be effective.

 

Also, let me say that I share your love of the Force Sling +3! That thing is fantastic! Certainly Harsk's favorite weapon, and even Ezren uses one (until he becoems a Scholar and eschews tedious martial weapons :) )/


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#16
macurvello

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There are hits, some misses, and some that are just different.

 

Strictly Better:

 

Seelah

  • Normalization of dice instead of specialization [d8/d4 for CON/INT to d6]
  • Casting now uses larger die [and has +1 Diplomacy on same die for synergy]
  • Trades Armor [dead card] for Item [heal staff, melee ioun, CHA headband, staves, lots of options]
  • Only drawback is -1 Melee

 

Lem

  • Higher DEX [which he uses for Ranged attacks, which he has a card slot for and proficiency in]
  • Lower WIS [which he doesn't use regularly and can boost incidental checks with his recharge power]
  • Trades Diplomacy [from a stat that he already has considerable strength in] for Knowledge [commonly-used and boosts a weaker die]
  • Gains armor proficiency

 

Kyra

  • Higher STR and Melee [traded for one point of Fortitude and one step in her primary casting die]
  • Trades an Armor [dead card] for a Weapon [which helps, since she isn't guaranteed to start with one in her hand]
  • Bonus undead damage

 

Harsk

  • Bigger hand size [yes pls]
  • Higher WIS and Survival [synergizes with his powers]
  • Lower CON and Fortitude [still higher than most, and not directly usable]
  • Trades a Weapon [he already has several, and can recharge any card to give combat bonuses to others] for an Ally [explore, synergizes with powers]

 

Ezren

  • Higher WIS [helps get Divine spells when exploring, which still triggers his power]
  • Lower DEX and loss of Weapon [which he isn't great with anyway, and this actually clears his deck out, making it even more recyclable and synergistic with his powers]
  • Loses 1 Arcane [which he already has an enormous amount of] for 1 Knowledge [commonly-used, helps close difficult locations and get rare items]
  • +1 Item [which he, arguably, puts to better use than anyone else, as the only primary INT-based character, now has more room for Necklaces of Fireballs, Amulet of Inescapable Location, etc.]
  • Can grab items in addition to spells [meaning that Allies are the only cards he cannot grab when he casts spells]

Amiri:

  • Trades higher CON [synergizes with her powers] for lower CHA [arguably a dump stat for her]
  • Trades a Weapon [which she is guaranteed to start with and she has plenty of already] for an Ally [explore]
  • Makes her Berserk power even more useful [especially outside of combat]

   

 

Simply Alternative:

 

Seoni

  • Lower CHA die countered in combat by +1 Arcane [but also hit with -1 Diplomacy]
  • Better dice and less-resisted cold type for power [but no backup fire for trolls]
  • +1 Spell that is always rechargeable [at the cost of 1 Blessing, which can be an explore or boost for others]
  • Higher DEX die [good but not particularly usable outside of small bonus on random checks]

 

Lini

  • Higher DEX is less helpful when she can discard to make it a d12 [and withg her predilection for high-crit Melee based on STR]
  • Gains +1 to the frequently-used Survival [but loses the same to the also-frequently-used Knowledge]
  • Raises a stat she can improve anyway and loses a stat she cannot, gains additional Ally [fantastic with her power] but loses an Item [which she doesn't have many of]

Merisiel

  • Trades STR [actually does make some bows less useful, like Black Arrow Longbow] for WIS [helps her Perception and synergizes with her powers]
  • Trades the more-useful Acrobatics [dodging dragon attacks, anyone?] for the less-useful Stealth [only closes a couple locations and helps acquire Ven Vinder, AFAIK]
  • Trades an Ally [explore] for a Blessing [explore or Boost, probably a good trade]
  • Gets +1 to combat when alone and discarding a card [risky, her power is arguably better when just recharging, though a free benefit is never a bad thing]

 

Strictly Worse:

 

Valeros

  • Lowered Melee [his primary role]
  • Specializing dice instead of keeping high average [d8s in dex/con to d6/d10]
  • Trades an Ally [explore] for an Armor [dead card]

 

Sajan

  • Pointless switch of WIS and CHA
  • Trade point in the more-useful Fortitude for the less-useful Acrobatics [lowering efficiency for Drunken Master]
  • Addition of comparatively useless Craft
  • Trades an Ally [explore] for a Weapon [which he doesn't start with proficiency with and nullifies one of his powers]

Overall, I think that Harsk, Lem, and Ezren get flat-out better, Seelah, Kyra and Amiri get considerable benefits with only slight losses, Seoni and Lini make out about even (with changes to their playstyles), and Sajan and Valeros trade very useful elements for less-useful ones.

 

Merisiel is tricky - one could argue that she breaks even, but I think that she loses too much to make the trade worthwhile. +WIS is nice for Perception, and it can be used to help her Item-recharge ability, but that power is rarely worth it for her. STR is nice to have, especially when using Black Arrow or Frost Longbows. I find that Acrobatics is helpful far more often than Stealth, and I seldom get into battles that I need to Discard cards for Sneak Attack in order to win. Usually, I either recharge them for a modest bonus or evade the fight if it is too risky.

 

Anwho, there's my two cents! I can't wait to get that Ezren and Harsk! :3

 

Thx for the breakdown! I just realized you didn't mention Lem's switch from an ally to an armor, which sucks big time.



#17
King_Momo

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There are hits, some misses, and some that are just different.

 

Strictly Better:

 

Seelah

  • Normalization of dice instead of specialization [d8/d4 for CON/INT to d6]
  • Casting now uses larger die [and has +1 Diplomacy on same die for synergy]
  • Trades Armor [dead card] for Item [heal staff, melee ioun, CHA headband, staves, lots of options]
  • Only drawback is -1 Melee

 

Lem

  • Higher DEX [which he uses for Ranged attacks, which he has a card slot for and proficiency in]
  • Lower WIS [which he doesn't use regularly and can boost incidental checks with his recharge power]
  • Trades Diplomacy [from a stat that he already has considerable strength in] for Knowledge [commonly-used and boosts a weaker die]
  • Gains armor proficiency

 

Kyra

  • Higher STR and Melee [traded for one point of Fortitude and one step in her primary casting die]
  • Trades an Armor [dead card] for a Weapon [which helps, since she isn't guaranteed to start with one in her hand]
  • Bonus undead damage

 

Harsk

  • Bigger hand size [yes pls]
  • Higher WIS and Survival [synergizes with his powers]
  • Lower CON and Fortitude [still higher than most, and not directly usable]
  • Trades a Weapon [he already has several, and can recharge any card to give combat bonuses to others] for an Ally [explore, synergizes with powers]

 

Ezren

  • Higher WIS [helps get Divine spells when exploring, which still triggers his power]
  • Lower DEX and loss of Weapon [which he isn't great with anyway, and this actually clears his deck out, making it even more recyclable and synergistic with his powers]
  • Loses 1 Arcane [which he already has an enormous amount of] for 1 Knowledge [commonly-used, helps close difficult locations and get rare items]
  • +1 Item [which he, arguably, puts to better use than anyone else, as the only primary INT-based character, now has more room for Necklaces of Fireballs, Amulet of Inescapable Location, etc.]
  • Can grab items in addition to spells [meaning that Allies are the only cards he cannot grab when he casts spells]

Amiri:

  • Trades higher CON [synergizes with her powers] for lower CHA [arguably a dump stat for her]
  • Trades a Weapon [which she is guaranteed to start with and she has plenty of already] for an Ally [explore]
  • Makes her Berserk power even more useful [especially outside of combat]

   

 

Simply Alternative:

 

Seoni

  • Lower CHA die countered in combat by +1 Arcane [but also hit with -1 Diplomacy]
  • Better dice and less-resisted cold type for power [but no backup fire for trolls]
  • +1 Spell that is always rechargeable [at the cost of 1 Blessing, which can be an explore or boost for others]
  • Higher DEX die [good but not particularly usable outside of small bonus on random checks]

 

Lini

  • Higher DEX is less helpful when she can discard to make it a d12 [and withg her predilection for high-crit Melee based on STR]
  • Gains +1 to the frequently-used Survival [but loses the same to the also-frequently-used Knowledge]
  • Raises a stat she can improve anyway and loses a stat she cannot, gains additional Ally [fantastic with her power] but loses an Item [which she doesn't have many of]

Merisiel

  • Trades STR [actually does make some bows less useful, like Black Arrow Longbow] for WIS [helps her Perception and synergizes with her powers]
  • Trades the more-useful Acrobatics [dodging dragon attacks, anyone?] for the less-useful Stealth [only closes a couple locations and helps acquire Ven Vinder, AFAIK]
  • Trades an Ally [explore] for a Blessing [explore or Boost, probably a good trade]
  • Gets +1 to combat when alone and discarding a card [risky, her power is arguably better when just recharging, though a free benefit is never a bad thing]

 

Strictly Worse:

 

Valeros

  • Lowered Melee [his primary role]
  • Specializing dice instead of keeping high average [d8s in dex/con to d6/d10]
  • Trades an Ally [explore] for an Armor [dead card]

 

Sajan

  • Pointless switch of WIS and CHA
  • Trade point in the more-useful Fortitude for the less-useful Acrobatics [lowering efficiency for Drunken Master]
  • Addition of comparatively useless Craft
  • Trades an Ally [explore] for a Weapon [which he doesn't start with proficiency with and nullifies one of his powers]

Overall, I think that Harsk, Lem, and Ezren get flat-out better, Seelah, Kyra and Amiri get considerable benefits with only slight losses, Seoni and Lini make out about even (with changes to their playstyles), and Sajan and Valeros trade very useful elements for less-useful ones.

 

Merisiel is tricky - one could argue that she breaks even, but I think that she loses too much to make the trade worthwhile. +WIS is nice for Perception, and it can be used to help her Item-recharge ability, but that power is rarely worth it for her. STR is nice to have, especially when using Black Arrow or Frost Longbows. I find that Acrobatics is helpful far more often than Stealth, and I seldom get into battles that I need to Discard cards for Sneak Attack in order to win. Usually, I either recharge them for a modest bonus or evade the fight if it is too risky.

 

Anwho, there's my two cents! I can't wait to get that Ezren and Harsk! :3

 

Thx for the breakdown! I just realized you didn't mention Lem's switch from an ally to an armor, which sucks big time.

 

 

Maybe you should try Lieutenant Lem before saying it sucks big time? Djezet Skin is a godsend for Lem giving him +2 to help recharge any spell as well as a reveal to prevent 1 combat damage. And because he's got Light Armor Proficiency, he can bury it instead of banishing it should something go horribly wrong.



#18
Ripe

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Maybe you should try Lieutenant Lem before saying it sucks big time? Djezet Skin is a godsend for Lem giving him +2 to help recharge any spell as well as a reveal to prevent 1 combat damage. And because he's got Light Armor Proficiency, he can bury it instead of banishing it should something go horribly wrong.

 

Thing is, with Lem you often don't want to recharge a spell. You want it in your discard pile so it would be available when needed. Sure, Lem can get through his deck rather fast but that still doesn't guarantee you'll get it when most needed. That is especially true in 6-5 where his ability to cast Mass Cure (or even Major Cure) every turn will make a huge difference.


Edited by Ripe, 22 March 2017 - 11:40 PM.


#19
MHCD

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Maybe you should try Lieutenant Lem before saying it sucks big time? Djezet Skin is a godsend for Lem giving him +2 to help recharge any spell as well as a reveal to prevent 1 combat damage. And because he's got Light Armor Proficiency, he can bury it instead of banishing it should something go horribly wrong.

 

Thing is, with Lem you often don't want to recharge a spell. You want it in your discard pile so it would be available when needed. Sure, Lem can get through his deck rather fast but that still doesn't guarantee you'll get it when most needed. That is especially true in 6-5 where his ability to cast Mass Cure (or even Major Cure) every turn will make a huge difference.

 

 

But that doesn't work if you do it with every spell - otherwise, you would have no spells with which to feed the swap.  Don't get me wrong - I love versatile performance, but you have to find a balance between recharging and discarding if you want power, versatility, and longevity (with the exception of casting pretty much just cure spells).  But part of that is just personal preference.  I will say that like Amiri's rage, perhaps the most powerful aspect of versatile performance is the ability to make use of garbage boons you collect throughout the scenario... which is another advantage for Lieutenant Lem.  Djezet Skin makes it all the more likely you'll be acquiring those spells and allies you encounter to swap for the preferred ones in your discard pile.

 

 

 

I agree with King Momo that the armor slot is especially handy for utilizing those rare armors.  In one game, I have Lem using the Djezet Skin (which complements him wonderfully), and in another, he has the Festive Wool.  Festive Wool means Lieutenant Lem has the option of trading that armor slot for another blessing, so really it comes down to which one you like better:

 

d6 wis

d8 dex

 

or

 

d4 wis

d10 dex

-1 ally

+1 armor or +1 blessing, your choice each scenario

 

In that case, it's weighed even more heavily in favor of Lieutenant Lem, but again, it comes down to personal preference.


Edited by MHCD, 28 March 2017 - 08:23 PM.


#20
macurvello

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There are hits, some misses, and some that are just different.

 

Strictly Better:

 

Seelah

  • Normalization of dice instead of specialization [d8/d4 for CON/INT to d6]
  • Casting now uses larger die [and has +1 Diplomacy on same die for synergy]
  • Trades Armor [dead card] for Item [heal staff, melee ioun, CHA headband, staves, lots of options]
  • Only drawback is -1 Melee

 

Lem

  • Higher DEX [which he uses for Ranged attacks, which he has a card slot for and proficiency in]
  • Lower WIS [which he doesn't use regularly and can boost incidental checks with his recharge power]
  • Trades Diplomacy [from a stat that he already has considerable strength in] for Knowledge [commonly-used and boosts a weaker die]
  • Gains armor proficiency

 

Kyra

  • Higher STR and Melee [traded for one point of Fortitude and one step in her primary casting die]
  • Trades an Armor [dead card] for a Weapon [which helps, since she isn't guaranteed to start with one in her hand]
  • Bonus undead damage

 

Harsk

  • Bigger hand size [yes pls]
  • Higher WIS and Survival [synergizes with his powers]
  • Lower CON and Fortitude [still higher than most, and not directly usable]
  • Trades a Weapon [he already has several, and can recharge any card to give combat bonuses to others] for an Ally [explore, synergizes with powers]

 

Ezren

  • Higher WIS [helps get Divine spells when exploring, which still triggers his power]
  • Lower DEX and loss of Weapon [which he isn't great with anyway, and this actually clears his deck out, making it even more recyclable and synergistic with his powers]
  • Loses 1 Arcane [which he already has an enormous amount of] for 1 Knowledge [commonly-used, helps close difficult locations and get rare items]
  • +1 Item [which he, arguably, puts to better use than anyone else, as the only primary INT-based character, now has more room for Necklaces of Fireballs, Amulet of Inescapable Location, etc.]
  • Can grab items in addition to spells [meaning that Allies are the only cards he cannot grab when he casts spells]

Amiri:

  • Trades higher CON [synergizes with her powers] for lower CHA [arguably a dump stat for her]
  • Trades a Weapon [which she is guaranteed to start with and she has plenty of already] for an Ally [explore]
  • Makes her Berserk power even more useful [especially outside of combat]

   

 

Simply Alternative:

 

Seoni

  • Lower CHA die countered in combat by +1 Arcane [but also hit with -1 Diplomacy]
  • Better dice and less-resisted cold type for power [but no backup fire for trolls]
  • +1 Spell that is always rechargeable [at the cost of 1 Blessing, which can be an explore or boost for others]
  • Higher DEX die [good but not particularly usable outside of small bonus on random checks]

 

Lini

  • Higher DEX is less helpful when she can discard to make it a d12 [and withg her predilection for high-crit Melee based on STR]
  • Gains +1 to the frequently-used Survival [but loses the same to the also-frequently-used Knowledge]
  • Raises a stat she can improve anyway and loses a stat she cannot, gains additional Ally [fantastic with her power] but loses an Item [which she doesn't have many of]

Merisiel

  • Trades STR [actually does make some bows less useful, like Black Arrow Longbow] for WIS [helps her Perception and synergizes with her powers]
  • Trades the more-useful Acrobatics [dodging dragon attacks, anyone?] for the less-useful Stealth [only closes a couple locations and helps acquire Ven Vinder, AFAIK]
  • Trades an Ally [explore] for a Blessing [explore or Boost, probably a good trade]
  • Gets +1 to combat when alone and discarding a card [risky, her power is arguably better when just recharging, though a free benefit is never a bad thing]

 

Strictly Worse:

 

Valeros

  • Lowered Melee [his primary role]
  • Specializing dice instead of keeping high average [d8s in dex/con to d6/d10]
  • Trades an Ally [explore] for an Armor [dead card]

 

Sajan

  • Pointless switch of WIS and CHA
  • Trade point in the more-useful Fortitude for the less-useful Acrobatics [lowering efficiency for Drunken Master]
  • Addition of comparatively useless Craft
  • Trades an Ally [explore] for a Weapon [which he doesn't start with proficiency with and nullifies one of his powers]

Overall, I think that Harsk, Lem, and Ezren get flat-out better, Seelah, Kyra and Amiri get considerable benefits with only slight losses, Seoni and Lini make out about even (with changes to their playstyles), and Sajan and Valeros trade very useful elements for less-useful ones.

 

Merisiel is tricky - one could argue that she breaks even, but I think that she loses too much to make the trade worthwhile. +WIS is nice for Perception, and it can be used to help her Item-recharge ability, but that power is rarely worth it for her. STR is nice to have, especially when using Black Arrow or Frost Longbows. I find that Acrobatics is helpful far more often than Stealth, and I seldom get into battles that I need to Discard cards for Sneak Attack in order to win. Usually, I either recharge them for a modest bonus or evade the fight if it is too risky.

 

Anwho, there's my two cents! I can't wait to get that Ezren and Harsk! :3

 

Thx for the breakdown! I just realized you didn't mention Lem's switch from an ally to an armor, which sucks big time.

 

 

Maybe you should try Lieutenant Lem before saying it sucks big time? Djezet Skin is a godsend for Lem giving him +2 to help recharge any spell as well as a reveal to prevent 1 combat damage. And because he's got Light Armor Proficiency, he can bury it instead of banishing it should something go horribly wrong.

 

I didn't say the whole character sucked, I said that particular change did...

 

Is that armor a treasure card btw? Because if it is, the point is moot if I don't have it... I'd rather have the extra exploration, especially since I usually play with large parties.

 

Is there somewhere where there is a comprehensive list of all the changes in each character set? I've only now realized that Frostfire Seoni's Arcane Blast not only adds the Cold trait but also changes the bonus from a 1d6 to 2d4...






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