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AMD Ryzen

AMD Zen Ryzen

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#41
Bokishi

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Intel price cut incoming



#42
teknoman2

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XyyFeZp.jpg

in the few cases it is behind its under 1.5% and it can be attributed to the slower RAM



#43
kirottu

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I'm starting to feel the hype and it feels, oh, so good.



#44
Sarex

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I've been talking with some people from work and they seem to think that if Ryzen turns out to be what people think it will be, Intel is gutted in desktop CPU department for the foreseeable future. According to the info I got from them, Intel has been focusing all of their R&D on the mobile platform, their Desktop architecture has remained largely unchanged and they have simply been brute forcing it so far, so if Ryzen turns out to be legit, that simply won't cut it anymore.

 

Even on the server front AMD has CPUs based on the Ryzen architecture, with more cores then their Intel counterpart, coming up. So it's going to be very interesting to see how/if Intel turns this around.



#45
Zoraptor

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I doubt that Intel will be gutted, they're too big and have a large war chest with plenty of scope for price cutting to induce competitiveness. Same as nobody got fired for buying IBM nobody will get fired for buying Intel and their brand recognition is very high, as are their contacts/ PR. They'll definitely lose a lot of the highish end workstation and enthusiast/ gaming market though, and both pretty quickly*; and their days of price gouging are over which will hurt their bottom line a lot. Casual retail and a lot of beige box corporate stuff will probably stay staunchly Intel though. End of the day, AMD had some solid years with superior processors in the 2000s, and didn't really get rewarded for it then.

 

If AMD can get a killer laptop chip out there for cheap Intel may be in real trouble though, their i5/i7 (2 core i7? hmm) branding there is terrible and a low draw Ryzen based APU even with 460 level graphics would be trouble. That's still months off though, assuming they'd use R3s as the base.

 

Peripheral, but Vega press conference today as well.

 

*We're already getting shops trying to unload Broadwell-E quickly here- got an email last night for 68__X systems with a $400 price cut- as that platform looks near dead at current price point.



#46
Sarex

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Well a gut wound does necessarily kill. :p Either way, the lack of a new architecture (for years now) will certainly hurt Intel and prevent them from recovering lost ground any time soon.

 

It would funny, in a tragic kind of way, if all this hype turned out to be false. I doubt it though.



#47
Keyrock

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I've been talking with some people from work and they seem to think that if Ryzen turns out to be what people think it will be, Intel is gutted in desktop CPU department for the foreseeable future. According to the info I got from them, Intel has been focusing all of their R&D on the mobile platform, their Desktop architecture has remained largely unchanged and they have simply been brute forcing it so far, so if Ryzen turns out to be legit, that simply won't cut it anymore.

 

That sounds ominously familiar...  let me think...  Ah yes, the Pentium 4 toasters, back when Intel was all about clock speed and were mostly marketing and selling their chips on having the highest clock speed, because "look higher number!".  Meanwhile AMD was investing into new and different ways of increasing IPC and their slightly lower clock speed and slightly lower price processors were going toe to toe with Intel's higher clock speed higher price processors.  Intel had visions of 5 and 6 GHz...  then they hit the 4 GHz thermal brick wall and, unable to keep ramping up clock speeds because their Pentium 4s were space heaters, they got left in the dust, performance wise, until they went back to the drawing board.  Of course Intel still outsold AMD during that time simply because they had the Intel name, they used shifty marketing, and a lot of people weren't smart enough to buy the better and cheaper product.


Edited by Keyrock, 28 February 2017 - 05:40 PM.

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#48
AwesomeOcelot

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Intel has the the CPUs that can beat Ryzen, they just have to cut prices to compete. Intel did stop pushing desktop performance for years and AMD haven't caught up with Ryzen apart from overtaking them in parallelism, it's a bit disappointing. Intel have the capacity to increase cores and threads, they have been very slow to do so because they had no competition, did not want to compete with enterprise, and the market is not growing for desktop. AMD is in a good position because Intel could take over a year to respond, AMD could own the desktop giving it the marketshare it needs for software to support their features and standards. I haven't considered buying an AMD CPU since 2004 when I bought one of the first AMD64 CPU.

#49
Ganrich

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Intel would have to remove their IGPs in order to make room for more cores on their chips. They can't just slap more cores on an architecture without removing things. They could have had separate skews for apus and cpus a long time ago, but that wouldnt let them price gouge people nearly as well.

#50
Keyrock

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Intel would have to remove their IGPs in order to make room for more cores on their chips. They can't just slap more cores on an architecture without removing things. They could have had separate skews for apus and cpus a long time ago, but that wouldnt let them price gouge people nearly as well.

Intel has chips without IGPs.  Some of the Xeon server chips are pure CPUs, no GPU bolted on.  There are Xeon E3 variants that are more or less the exact same chip as the same generation of i3/i5/i7, minus the IGP.



#51
Ganrich

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Intel would have to remove their IGPs in order to make room for more cores on their chips. They can't just slap more cores on an architecture without removing things. They could have had separate skews for apus and cpus a long time ago, but that wouldnt let them price gouge people nearly as well.

Intel has chips without IGPs.  Some of the Xeon server chips are pure CPUs, no GPU bolted on.  There are Xeon E3 variants that are more or less the exact same chip as the same generation of i3/i5/i7, minus the IGP.

Higher prices, more cores, and low clock speeds tend to accompany those Xeons. They aren't mainstream processors. Intel will have to increase core count while maintaining clock speed and be close in price, or they could pull their strong arm tactics (or something similar) from the early 2000s. These need to be included in their mainstream line, or a new line to replace that line. I can't remember what their current socket is... 1151? That's where they need to have this stuff. They've avoided it to gouge the mainstream, and only offer more variety in the server cpu line because it isn't even close to needed and AMD hasn't released anything there in forever.

Either way, in a month I plan to build a Ryzen machine. I'd preorder, but Deadfire lowered my bank account a little too much to build a computer this week.

#52
AwesomeOcelot

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My 5820K isn't a Xeon and doesn't have a iGPU, it had a reasonable price/performance for a 6 core 12 thread CPU 3 1/2 years before Ryzen. Problem is Intel hasn't progressed much from there.

#53
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The current Broadwell E varieties don't have an iGPU either. But like that 5820k was they're also comparatively expensive and decidedly workstation/ top tier enthusiast orientated.

 

I've always found Intel's semi obsession with integrated graphics to be strange, especially so on anything not aimed at corporate McBoxes or laptops. Suppose they're useful if your main graphics card packs up or if you want to buy a dedicated GPU later, but I don't imagine that fits into Intel's thoughts too much.



#54
mkreku

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Time to rein in that hype a little:

 

http://wccftech.com/...ock-benchmarks/

 

Ryzen 1700x beaten by Intel in almost all gaming scenarios (although they use 2133 MHz RAM on the Ryzen vs 3200 MHz on Intel because early hardware lacked XMP profile support).



#55
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(although they use 2133 MHz RAM on the Ryzen vs 3200 MHz on Intel because early hardware lacked XMP profile support).

Not just significantly slower RAM, but also higher latency.  The RAM used for the Ryzen setup is 2133 MHz CL15 while the RAM used in the Intel setup is 3200 MHz CL14.  Usually higher speed RAM has that advantage offset somewhat by having higher CAS latency, the fact that the RAM used in the Intel variant is both significantly higher speed AND slightly lower latency gives it a fairly significant advantage.  I'll wait for benchmarks done on a truly even playingfield.



#56
Zoraptor

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Plus engineering sample MB and CPU, which means they may differ significantly from release models. Or may not, no real way to tell until 12 hours time or whatever. Since some of the slides have Farsi on them I'd guess they're older ES, but that's a guess.

 

I really wouldn't be expecting an R7 to beat a 7700k in many current games and whatever the set up, though it probably will beat it for most future games that take advantage of more cores. The R5s ought to be better than an R7 for most current games as well.



#57
Bartimaeus

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(although they use 2133 MHz RAM on the Ryzen vs 3200 MHz on Intel because early hardware lacked XMP profile support).

Not just significantly slower RAM, but also higher latency.  The RAM used for the Ryzen setup is 2133 MHz CL15 while the RAM used in the Intel setup is 3200 MHz CL14.  Usually higher speed RAM has that advantage offset somewhat by having higher CAS latency, the fact that the RAM used in the Intel variant is both significantly higher speed AND slightly lower latency gives it a fairly significant advantage.  I'll wait for benchmarks done on a truly even playingfield.

 

 

...Why the hell wouldn't they just set both to the same settings so it was on an even playing ground, ESPECIALLY when they know it's a temporary issue that the AMD board can't use the higher speeds... That's just silly.



#58
Sarex

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Guess they talked to Intel before reviewing. :D


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#59
teknoman2

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reviews have started popping up on youtube



#60
Sarex

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Similar power for half the money.







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