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3.05 Live on Steam

hotfix patch 3.05 firebug

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#41
JerekKruger

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Don't get me wrong, I can see why it's annoying, but I also think this might be a case of the small minority being overly vocal about it.

 

Are only a small minority of players here, complaining about this nerf? Of course. Only a tiny minority of people who own Pillars are even active on these forums. Most people who have played Pillars have probably never fully unlocked the Unlabored Blade, many have probably never even picked it up. None of this makes the nerf a good idea or a good use of Obsidian's time*.

 

Yes, the Unlabored Blade was very powerful when used by a Barbarian. What I don't understand is why, in a noncompetitive single player game this matters. If people want to play an overpowered build then so what? Why did Obsidian feel the need to step in a stop someone having fun in their particular way, on their own, in their own time? Moreover why did they feel the need to do so in a way that made the Unlabored Blade underpowered for every other class. "Sorry dagger wielding Rogue, because someone somewhere is making the game too easy using the Unlabored Blade with a Barbarian we are making this otherwise cool item less good than a boringly named dagger available at the end of Act I with some enchantments."

 

Now I've found a way to revert the UB to its original form, so it's not a big deal for me gameplay wise (and I am not going to use it on a Barbarian anyway since I think Barbarians look silly wielding daggers), but it's the attitude of Obsidian that bothers me. This sort of behaviour is what I'd expect in a MOBA, where balance is important, but it's precisely to get away from this sort of thing that I come to single player games. Baldur's Gate 2 was objectively terribly balanced and yet somehow it managed to be fun. In fact a lot of the fun for many players was because of this, both in learning the system so well as to be able to build ridiculously powerful characters, and challenging themselves trying to beat it with bad ones. It's a shame to see BG2's spiritual successor move away from that.

 

*I realise it probably took about five minutes to do. I think those five minutes would have been better spent letting the programmer who did it go home earlier it's such a pointless change.


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#42
WorstUsernameEver

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I doubt you'd have gotten a bug fix if they didn't spend the time to nerf Unlabored Blade. Most likely, you just would have gotten a one-change patch.

#43
mishkoff

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To whom it may interest, a link to Unlabored Blade pre last Hotfix - https://www.dropbox..../blade.zip?dl=0  extract that to assetbundles and it will work. Only issue is that model is missing, so you are running with pink dagger. Maybe some will find a way to fix that.


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#44
Livegood118

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To whom it may interest, a link to Unlabored Blade pre last Hotfix - https://www.dropbox..../blade.zip?dl=0  extract that to assetbundles and it will work. Only issue is that model is missing, so you are running with pink dagger. Maybe some will find a way to fix that.

https://forums.obsid...-uab-extractor/

 

We figured out how to edit it on the current patch – it's a little bit of tinkering with the Unity Asset Bundle Extractor but nothing too scary.



#45
JerekKruger

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I doubt you'd have gotten a bug fix if they didn't spend the time to nerf Unlabored Blade. Most likely, you just would have gotten a one-change patch.

 

Almost certainly yes, since it took Livegood118 very little time to reverse the change using the UABE and I imagine Obsidian programmers have better tools and are more familiar with the code. I still think it would have been a better patch with just one change though.



#46
Raygereio

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To whom it may interest, a link to Unlabored Blade pre last Hotfix - https://www.dropbox..../blade.zip?dl=0  extract that to assetbundles and it will work. Only issue is that model is missing, so you are running with pink dagger. Maybe some will find a way to fix that.

Not to self-advertise, but here's the unnerfed patch 3.5 version.
I don't know of good way to apply this to a save where you've already fully unlocked the unlabored blade. You'll have to use console commands in that case.
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#47
AlexDeLarge

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I must be in the minority, but i want to see a lot more nerfs, not just unlabored blade (which is a very odd choice by Obsidian to prioritize this in particular, i might add), the game is just too easy towards the 2nd half. I'm looking at you, Relentless Storm...


Edited by AlexDeLarge, 27 November 2016 - 03:10 PM.


#48
JerekKruger

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No, I also think the game is too easy and am not opposed to nerfs in general. I think the sabre nerf was a good change for example. It's badly thought out nerfs that I'm against, and this is a prime example of such. I don't think anyone is going to find Pillars significantly more difficult as a result of this nerf, but I do think the Unlabored Blade will be used much less.


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#49
theBalthazar

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There is a lot of nerf for equity. But targeting Relentness storm precisely is not useful.  For exemple this spell is useless VS radiant spore...

 

More, there is a big list :

 

Priest.

Wizard.

A certain electrical bow

Relentness storm

 

target specifically one will not serve anything, if not obliged the players to take what remains more effective.

 

 

Do not forget that you know the game on your fingertips. The game must remain accessible a minimum. For casual, for experienced players and for experts who do not want too micro every hundredths of a second.


Edited by theBalthazar, 28 November 2016 - 09:15 AM.


#50
AlexDeLarge

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I wasn't specifically targeting storm, but it does stand out as the most glaringly OP spell in the game. If i were in charge of balance, the things i'd take care of first would be:

 

Relentless Storm

Ninagauth's Shadowflame

Devotions of the Faithful

Crowns of the Faithful

Dragon Thrashed maybe as well (no more stacking with itself)

 

I think these are the main culprits that turn an otherwise challenging game into a faceroll.

 

Also, i would make High Level scaling actually scale a lot more (something like 60% instead of 33%, scale Adra and Alpine dragons as well to at least level 16) and make most bosses immune or highly resistant to all debuffs (the fact that you can charm one of the bog dragons with a level 1 spell is ridiculous to me, for example).


Edited by AlexDeLarge, 28 November 2016 - 09:44 AM.


#51
theBalthazar

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Nope.

 

If you turn a boss multi-immun except one or two weakness, certain classes will have the favor.

 

Totally condemns the debuff, it no longer serves anything, and people will adopt the pure offensive (= the game is no longer interesting)

 

The only interest of the debuff ... is debuff. If you do not have to do it any more because you have no interest in doing it, then you do not do it anymore !

 

Obviously, that means making the game easier, it's kind of the goal in itself. Reward players who create a strategy.

 

We use the debuff to wait for a definitive advantage.

 

If not : Rogue + Heart of the fury 20 / 20. And all offensive spells = G.G.

 

I hate games where debuffs never work (Or once in 30). And at that moment I do what? I fall back on what works (I let you guess what), and so the debuffs no longer serve anything.


Edited by theBalthazar, 29 November 2016 - 02:14 AM.


#52
AlexDeLarge

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It's already the situation that bosses are multi-immune, with a few exceptions (you can't petrify adra dragon, but you can paralyze him, you can't paralyze alpine but you can petrify him). Which, with a bit of metagame knowledge, turns most elite fights into a cakewalk, since you can whip out the specific counter required for every situation.

Sure, what i proposed will indirectly buff the direct damage classes like rogue, if you think about it, don't they actually need that ? Giving bosses immunity or very high debuff resistances across the board is practically a nerf to the vancian classes, which are by far the most powerful in the game. And you can always use the debuffs on boss adds, so it's not like they become useless or anything.



#53
AsamiWithPrep

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I've found a bug with targeting using an AOE attack on stairs. A character can be targeted even if they're not in the target area. Image album showing this here http://imgur.com/a/UHHNT


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#54
hilfazer

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bosses immune [...] to all debuffs 

Sometimes i'm actually glad Josh Sawyer frequents Something Awful instead of this place.


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#55
AlexDeLarge

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bosses immune [...] to all debuffs 

Sometimes i'm actually glad Josh Sawyer frequents Something Awful instead of this place.

 

 

"or highly resistant"  And by debuffs I meant debilitating status effects (such as Charm, Paralyze, but not something like Cipher Disintegration for example). I love people who misquote others to suit their narrative.



#56
MadDemiurg

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Bosses immune to CC with tons of hp you just have to bash through is the most lazyass boring design ever. Way worse than the current situation.


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#57
JerekKruger

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I've got to agree with the people who are against boss immunities. They just reduce boss fights to damage races which are utterly mindless. I don't mind the occasional immunity when it makes sense from a lore perspective (having animats being immune to poison for example) but using them as a crutch to make boss fights more challenging is boring.


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#58
AlexDeLarge

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In any case, something should be done to make the big encounters more challenging. I would say the optimal solution would be something like SCS from BG, that drastically improves enemy AI and gives them more abilities in their arsenal. 



#59
JerekKruger

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If someone's up to modding DWS (Dyrwood Strategies) that would be awesome. Not sure how difficult it would be to do using UABE and other tools.



#60
MadDemiurg

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In any case, something should be done to make the big encounters more challenging. I would say the optimal solution would be something like SCS from BG, that drastically improves enemy AI and gives them more abilities in their arsenal. 

This is a better approach. I also think boss fights should focus on you fighting a group of enemies rather than one big bad, cause no matter how big or bad he is there are a number of ways you can make a single entity powerless (CC, tanking, very high single target damage). Group fights also allow the whole arsenal of your abilities shine (aoe, mind control, on kill stuff etc). Most PoE fights do include groups of enemies, but some (dragon fights) are bit too focused on a single entity for my liking. Bounties are much more satisfying and interesting boss fights in this sense. Having a group of enemies with improved AI smartly using skills/spells at their disposal should give a nice challenge. E.g. enemy priests protecting from/suppressing CC, wizards smartly targeting your weakest saves, bruisers intercepting your melee and trying to keep them engaged or going for squishier chars themselves.


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