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Any reason for Lem to pick Charlatan?


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7 replies to this topic

#1
Thyraxus

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I've been comparing the roles for Lem and have been wondering - is there any reason to actually pick Charlatan over Virtuoso? I just don't see it, Charlatan seems to be almost strictly inferior in every aspect.

 

I mean, what does Charlatan get that Virtuoso doesn't?

  1. A passive bonus of +2 to acquiring allies / defeating henchmen / defeating villains - each of those costs a power feat individually. Compare that to the Virtuoso's ability to simply add his inspiration buff to himself on any check for bonus of (initially) at least 3 and up to 7 (assuming you invested into both upgrades before picking a role, and let's be honest, you'd be a fool not to) at the cost of only one power feat and a recharge (which is not actually that much of a cost, as it also helps you cycle your deck faster) - that's a clear win for the Virtuoso in my opinion.
  2. An automatic recharge of spells with the Mental trait - there are not that many mental spells in the game, and they are usually of the evasion variety. You'd probably not have more than one of them in your deck anyway for very specific tactical situations (especially in quest mode, where not defeating a monster means lost XP). So this ability won't fire often enough to be really worth a feat. And when playing Lem you'd be usually rather discarding the spells that really matter on purpose for recovery anyway - and the Virtuoso can do that twice per turn (at the beginning and the end). I just don't see the point.
  3. Hand size 8 - that's really the only objective advantage to this role (although it also makes you a little more vulnerable when a combat check goes terribly wrong, so it's not completely without drawbacks either)

So, with Virtuoso Lem can buff himself and can recover cards from his discard twice per turn - both awesome abilites that make his already high utility skyrocket. What would be a good reason not to pick that role - other than maybe the desire for a bit more variety, or to challenge oneself on purpose?


Edited by Thyraxus, 19 October 2016 - 06:17 AM.


#2
Hannibal_PJV

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I did pick up Virtuoso for the same reasons as you did. Old Runelords characters were not in balance. The new class deck characters really put you thinking what role to pick. In these old there normally is only one that just is better...

Edited by Hannibal_PJV, 19 October 2016 - 12:19 PM.

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#3
Dainalt

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I can offer two possibilities:

1. It might be a difficulty slider. Take a weaker path for greater difficulty. There really *are* people who do that in some games. Kind of like soloing everything with Lem, for whom you've chosen Charlatan.

2. It fits the RPG aspect you like better. Feel like you want Lem to be more of a scoundrel than a musician? Choose Charlatan.

I kind of feel the same way about the class roles. Generally one just looks better. I typically want my characters to do what they already do just better, but there are some people who like a more subtle approach, so some of the weaker looking roles might actually be more powerful in the hands of a player with a different philosophy. My idea of lem is a versatile healer who can help others (and eventually himself) do much better. My idea of Ezren is someone who nukes the hell out of things. He doesn't care about evading or running away and he nukes others before they can escape. Now, I can kind of see choosing different roles for someone like Val, although I think the weapons side is better.

#4
Saint Ajora

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An automatic recharge of spells with the Mental trait - there are not that many mental spells in the game, and they are usually of the evasion variety. You'd probably not have more than one of them in your deck anyway for very specific tactical situations (especially in quest mode, where not defeating a monster means lost XP). So this ability won't fire often enough to be really worth a feat. And when playing Lem you'd be usually rather discarding the spells that really matter on purpose for recovery anyway - and the Virtuoso can do that twice per turn (at the beginning and the end). I just don't see the point.

Besides, undeads maybe represent 1/4 of the monsters you'll face in this game and they are naturally immune to the Mental trait. In fact, Mental and Poison traits are the most unreliable traits in this game. A player should think carefully before ditch some weapon or spell for another spell or weapon that has these traits. It may look powerful at first glance (Poison Blast, anyone?), but it can betray you if it's the only thing you have to attack.



#5
Slide87

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probably each role has own proper way of playing it,surely some have advantages relating to others(of the same char I say),like charlatan with lem; I think just that the best role that fits player gameplay is the right one ;) Take Valeros roles: if u want a more defensive bunker choose guardian,otherwise(like me xD),the other one :)

#6
zarrick13

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So here's my thoughts on Virtuoso vs. Charlatan.

 

Virtuoso:  You probably picked Lem to be a spellcaster/buffer.  You probably buffed Charisma, took heals, attack spells, or some combination of the two, and took the self-buff ability so Lem could potentially go solo things.  All around a good fellow to have in a party.  But...

 

Charlatan:  This version of Lem has a pretty specific purpose.  He's a hunter of henchmen and a vanquisher of villains!  Okay, well maybe not so much by himself...  With the skillset Charlatan provides, this Lem does load up on Sleep, Paralyze, and Sanctuary spells, maybe an Augury or two, grabs a handful of allies and blessings, and then essentially does Merisel's job of looking for that Boss-type so he can Paralyze/Sanctuary them, let a buddy show up, and sing a song to help squash the big bad guy.  This version of Lem doesn't need Charisma as much, and so you can consider upping Dex instead, give him a halfway-decent weapon, or even a couple suits of armor to augment the skills Virtuoso's self-buff would have otherwise handled.  The 8-hand size allows you to keep blessings and allies flowing through his hand and still have room for the Sleep/Paralyze you may need to put off the big battle.  Those powers of +2 to Ally/Hench/Villain are there specifically so you don't have to bump up his charisma to get a boost to grabbing allies, and to make his Dex attack that satisfying +4 base.

 

Is Virtuoso still the better path?  For general utility and 'bard'ness, yes.  It's hard to get around how useful Lem is at max Charisma, throwing heals and bolts and buffing his own worth.  But I could see a party that already has a healer and/or a wizard taking Lem along to throw him at a location and just dig like a bandit in a fresh grave to find the Henchman/Villain, and then either decide to use the shiny dagger he has to off it, or Paralyze him for some bigger party beef to come along and do it instead.  A different flavor of Merisel that can actually hold a heal spell.  Though that weakness vs. undead can be an issue. 



#7
Urtar37

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I think Lem is horrible in ROTR because he can't buff himself, like the S&S Lem can, until he spends FOUR powers on this.



#8
Thyraxus

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You are mistaken, the self-buff power is not chained to the '+1's to the base inspiration power, it can be taken independently once it's unlocked by earning your role. It's a bit of a slog to get to that point first, but once you do, you can immediately pick it up and go to town with it.


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