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Pillars of Eternity 3.04 Beta Feedback Contest (Conversation Thread)

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#21
AndreaColombo

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Hey Sking,

What about the proposal to make spirit shift special abilities 1/encounter instead of 1/rest? Is it being considered? I mentioned it in this other thread as well: https://forums.obsid...s-within/page-3

On a related note, it has been mentioned that Wolf spirit shift is supposed to give +1 move speed but doesn't. Probably minor but hopefully quick to fix; I believe I could put together a repro case for it but please let me know if it would be considered for fixing. If it's too minor I won't bother working on it :)
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#22
Silvaren

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Another one thing about fight with the Kraken.

 

I managed to kill this boss without drawing agro from eyless simply by staying in the left bottom corner of the area. I killed all of the tentacles and after that the rest of the kraken. If the eyless from the right side of the area showed up earlier this fight could be more challenging. And like someone said, it would be better to add some resitances for eyless and the Kraken. I stunned eyless and I stunned the Kraken during my first playthrough and I used these scrennshots in my review of second part o the expansion with some funny coments about stun from beating monsters in a place where they had vaccine injected (in my country it's popular joke from childhood - I'm not sure if it's funny for you all :D).

 

I had Pallegina with St. Ydwen Redeemer (and it wasn't even the last stage of soulband upgrades) and I didn't use Abydon's Hammer so I coud say that fights with eyless on Hard difficulty wasn't hard at all.


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#23
theBalthazar

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AndreaColombo :

 

I think personnaly its a bad idea. The spiritform is extremly powerfull. Increase his power is a bad idea. OR !.... The bonus need to become reduced/nerf.

 

Cat 33 % bonus speed ? = 25 % bonus speed. etc.

 

If nof, I think its overpower.

 

Understand me : I'm not against the idea. I defended the 1/Encounter for the barb (heart of the fury). Here, I prefer the 1/encounter with 25 % speed than 33% by rest. BUT NOT with 33 % / encounter. Its too much in my opinion.


Edited by theBalthazar, 14 October 2016 - 02:13 AM.

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#24
AndreaColombo

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How would you balance the stag form's carnage, though?

I understand the power concern, although I believe the issue with power in this game lies in under-leveled enemies and unintelligent A.I. more than in what players are able to achieve; however, +25% speed 1/encounter is already available via Outlander's Frenzy along with +2 MIG and +2 CON. There's no reason not to pick that talent for a spiritshift build, and Cat Flurry Attack wouldn't have anything better to offer (indeed, it would be strictly worse.) In that case, rather leave it as is--but I'd personally just use Outlander's Frenzy all the time and ignore the Flurry Attack.

#25
Silvaren

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What about the proposal to make spirit shift special abilities 1/encounter instead of 1/rest? Is it being considered? I mentioned it in this other thread as well: https://forums.obsid...s-within/page-3


I have an idea but it could break the meaning of whole 1/rest system. What if some abilities like Cat Flurry Attack would stay as 1/rest but with circumstantial factor which could trigger these abiliies to refresh? What if add small percentage chance to refresh Cat Flurry Attack on Critical Hit? It could work theoretically as intended but players would use this more frequently and they wouldn't hesitate to do so.

 

Balance would be natural thing - you use Cat Flurry Attack to shred some trash mobs - deflection of trash mobs isn't very high unless you are playing on PotD, so on different difficulty level than PotD you have good chances to score even several critical hits during the fight and each with small percentage chance of refresh Cat Flurry Attack. So players woudn't hesitate to use Cat Flurry Attack because of harder combat that may never come - thanks to chance of refresh ability. In oposite - in boss fights or encoutners with higher level enemies or more powerful monsters with high deflection your chance to score critical hits is automatically lower, so it would be hardly possible to refresh Cat Flurry Attack during the same fight - and after boss fights or harder combat most people would rest anyway.

 

I'm not sure if this type of changes is even possible at current state of game's code and it would require a lot of testing. I guess percentage chance of refresh very cool 1/rest abilities by critical hits would make people to use items which convert hits to critical hits.

 

By refresh I mean that ability would be ready for another use.

 

But there are spells like Divine Mark which lowers target's deflection by 25 granting opening for critical hits...


Edited by Silvaren, 14 October 2016 - 08:23 AM.


#26
Anaeme

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1. How have we been at communicating with you guys?

 

Sorry, but very poorly...as far as I know only Adam Brennecke bothers to read and reply to communications. I cannot recall the last time Josh showed up on the forums, or even read anything coming out of here. It appears he avoids the forums entirely or is too busy. Whatever the reason, the lack of responsiveness from the director of a kickstarter game has been beyond belief for me. For ages we were pointing out the steep and uneven difficulty curve between levels 1 and 5, we were flagging the dismal performances of the rogue and barbarian, among other issues and nobody was listening. Our concerns did not get addressed while we got stuff like resistances arbitrarily shoved into the game thereby rendering several talents across different classes worthless  Many apologies if this feedback sounds harsh, it is only meant to be honest and lead to better outcomes. 

 

2. What did you like about us?

 

You guys did a good job with finishing and releasing the game within a decent time frame. You also provided beefy add-ons to keep players engaged. Obsidian deserves kudos for this. No one can complain of being shortchanged. 

 

You have kept your commitment to having a deep narrative in your games. This is good

 

I love the RTWP gameplay in PoE

 

3. What kind of things would you like to see us improve on?

 

We want all developers to play and tune the game on the hardest difficulty prior to release. If you guys had played PoE on PoTD, I am certain players would not have been tormented by so many balance related issues. (The Adra dragon being a prime example)

 

Gear and equipment has seemed to overwhelm/take away from the satisfaction of proper character construction based on skills and talents. My Barbarian should not have to rely on Forgemaster gloves before I can enjoy the class at its full potential. The power of the class should be in its talents and skills...gear should merely give flavor to the innate build

 

The excessive focus on balance in PoE caused the game to sometimes miss the point that every game at its heart should be fun. If players are enjoying something (overpowered or not) don't nerf it, do something else like improving enemy AI instead. For instance the RDD class in NWN2  added more fun factor to the game

 

Reduce party composition from six to four

 

Please allow players build and customize NPC companions. I would have gotten a lot of use out of reallocating the points Durance had in Resolve

 

 

 

4. What would you like to hear from us in the future?

 

I would like to see divine level game play. We raised this issue with Feargus during the Kickstarter and he said epic level gameplay will be more appropriate in a sequel. I hope he has not forgotten.

 

Upgraded graphics...3D if possible. I want to see my features and gear during gameplay. 

 

Remove the level cap. Players should continue to be rewarded

 

 

What is the hardest fight you had in the game? What were your favorite and least favorite fights? Do you feel that there were any boss fights that were to overwhelming or underwhelming?

 

All responses based on PoTD gameplay:

 

The Adra dragon on PoTD is the absolute worst fight. it was not properly tuned. The White March dragon has a breath weapon  that also one shots entire parties

 

Temple of Eothas shades were a tad too difficult for the level 1-5 area in which it is located. Also the stun attack in those fights needs to be tuned

 

The Ogre fights in Cad Nua were too hard for the party level when they are encountered


Edited by Anaeme, 15 October 2016 - 04:05 AM.


#27
Reent

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Dear Developers,

i have finished one vanilla group run (PotD ToI), about 2 solo PotD ToI vanilla runs and one PotD solo run (non ToI) with wm1+2, but with a naked chanter - maybe you can see something - i played a few hundred hours ToI but only finished 4 runs, i love to change builds and test some things and don't mind if i don't finish the game. I like the game, I really do! But there were quite some points...
a) The first day! I was hyped, i am living in germany and i only knew the date i could play... i didn't know at what time i could play but i was ready - and i planned to not sleep that night. At 17? 18? o'clock i could finally play, i started a druid and stopped before finishing the prologue - i wanted to play a shapeshifter, you can't play that without any informations, the game told you that shapeshifting was 1/rest and no timelimit, i thought it was a bug that it stopped! So i switched to wizard - loving the melee caster - i think you know what happened, i lost my grimoire in gilded vale... and started again, this time with a ranger! That one was the one bug i think almost no one knows, i don't know if its fixed or not but i can't test it, i forgot the most integral part of it: i took a bear and named it after a name often used in books, that name made the game bug, if the bear initiated a fight the name for "fight start" was something like *unknown name*... so when i killed the leader the fight never ended... i tried 3 times with the same name for the bear before seeing the *unknown name*, after that i could finally create a ranger who could finish the prologue... only to have raedrics castle loading endlessly, that was the moment - around midnight when i went to sleep knowing that next day i could start a new run! One bug - sure, but that was 1) a game mechanic changed without changing the informations 2) a bug 3) a bug 4) a bug, sure, 3 bugs within 6h isn't that much, but the game mechanic change without thinking it through... i think you did that one with quite some things (i am looking at you, petrify)
b) The enemies have no strategy! Spells are used randomly, the targeting can be abused, they are one dimensional and don't dodge anything. In Baldurs Gate the mages used about one strategy but that wasn't as easy to beat as the pillars casters are - think about the spells they use, give them a few priorities (like consegrated ground at the beginning of the fight, not after a few died). In the beginning it was enough to tank with 2-3 characters even in open areas, now you have to do a bit more since they shout "LEEROY JENKINS" and run to the squishies - even if they don't see them... that made me drop party play, you get more and more ways to deal with stuff, the enemies get more abilities but use them too bad.
c) The companion stories are interesting enough to almost read the stories... but they don't care about what you do (maybe a few comments...) ... you can kill the whole world and no one leaves the party? I want them to do a bit more... feel a little more "alive". Aloth can be funny enough, but compare that to Minsc... heck,  minsc... spellhold NUFF SAID
d) fight/non fight... good idea, makes for a better balancing - but its a real pain for me as a solo player (and it affected one of my not finished party runs because it got to "last one standing just got withdrawn from the 2nd one standing), good that one part should be done (fight ending if every enemy is charmed) but what about the other parts? I was fighting a priest or wizard or something - i wanted to cast a spell, he wanted to cast a spell - heck, both of us tried it 4 times in a row, everytime the fight ended before the spell was done! Good Job!
Why should withdraw end if enemies still have DoTs on them and the priest isnt at full endurance?


1. How have we been at communicating with you guys?
I created a thread for fight ending prematurely (at first only about charm but fast changing to more parts) and it wasn't answered for month despite beeing a very big problem. I don't mind it that much that my thread about "damage done" wasn't answered since its not "that" necessary, it would simply be nice to know how much damage a chanter does in one run. I would prefere faster and better Patchnotes (not the patches, just the informations itself, somethings don't get mentioned at all)
But as long as i don't mind your "you don't need to bump" and ignore that (sorry but that part... you failed) you can get answers to most things and its really good! Maybe you should try to keep track of threads that don't get much love more and get your Patchnotes in order - than i'd say: perfect communication!
2. What did you like about us?
I like that you created the game at all! I love the genre.
3. What kind of things would you like to see us improve on?
Less bugs at release. Ai behaviour.
4. What would you like to hear from us in the future?
Pillars 2 where you can load your endsafe from Pillars 1 and the companions are in it too - depending on what you did with them.
5. Additional thoughts?
Fix a few more bugs, fix a few deeper problems (if you can't fix things like: "enemy doing something non aggressive - same for me, fight ending" for this game) for the next game and i will buy every game you create for this genre!

Combat:
I didn't fight the wm1/2 fights outside the main story line - so no dragons and no archmages (waiting for runs where i play seriously, want a few more things fixed), so for me the vanilla game is the only one where i had any hard fights.
The hardest fight would be the fights in Act 1 where i simply wasn't prepared for what i would face - shades so early? such a group with Raedric? And act 3 adragans. The on hit petrify spiders before the petrify nerf in the endless path...
I was ready for the Adra dragon, wasn't hard with preparation. Thaos was a really nice fight but its neither hard for a solo chanter nor for a party (i liked the spells he used and that you couldn't focus him down, the spells hit so hard it was fun). The bossfights i haven't done yet look like fun.
The adra dragon is a bit slow, makes it really easy to ignore her and simply kite her to death. The kraken needs a buff really hard.
 
-----
added 20.10
 
Since i tested the unlabored blade just now i remembered something that ended a build i tried... and that made me write a feedback about the gamemechanics about monk, while writing it i remembered that i had a point about chanters i dislike too, so i thought i'd think about each class if there is something i'd like to say about it:
 
Barbarian:
I really like carnage, i am playing with barb as MC at the moment and its amazing.
Frenzy could use a shorter cast time, it has such a short duration... that combined with the long cast time - you either can't position as fast or you loose a few attacks to cast it, sure, its still okay, but not really that "good" (if i could get a normal talent instead of frenzy i'd take it, if i could get a different barb talent (not a shout) there aren't many i wouldn't take), i use the armor for Deleterious Alacrity of Motion 1/rest... and i have to say, frenzy feels very bad (and if i would use a plate armor i'd take the one with frenzy on crit, so i don't have the cast time)
 
Chanter:

Spoiler

(quite long; short version: for chants affecting enemies, grazes/crits should affect the "duration" and linger phase, not just the linger phase)
 
Druid:
Druid needs a timer for Spiritshift - abilities that change the playstyle of a character (caster vs melee) need a timer.
 
Monk:

Spoiler

(not as long, but in short: you should get new wounds even with 10 wounds, however the oldest wound should end (=max 10 wounds, but timer refreshing), you should use the oldest wounds, not the newest for abilities)

 

Spoiler

-----
 


Top Bugs i want fixed:
0) Loadtimes getting much too long.
1) Chants getting no +ACC with survival bonus etc (made a thread about that and a few more things about chants, they should be in the system, looks like it was not on any prio list, but for me its high on my list because it makes builds much more interesting and thats what i am waiting for before i do my full clear run (or runs))
2) DMG+ Talents not affecting DoTs
3) Interrupts stopping the activity altogether (its not fun to spam the potion because interrupt=normal attack if you don't plate+2 dex... if it happens once you are done for)
4) Withdraw not stopping raw damage
5) some DoTs (wounding) dealing the same damage no matter how much int

Not a Bug but...
Druids should have a timer for spiritshift


And here are a few things i'd love to see to make the game harder:
Expert mode not showing what the enemies are casting.
Better AI Pathing
Better Spellusage - make priests that position for buff/healspells, not in a way they can attack in melee, make them cast something like Consecrated Grounds at the beginning, not when damaged.
Make Enemies dodge some spells and leave something like Chillfog
Give Enemies OP spells too, we have the tools - let them have it too (like Dragon Chant for enemy chanters)
Give melee enemies a ranged attack so they can attack when they can't get to the party.


Edited by Reent, 20 October 2016 - 07:04 AM.

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#28
AndreaColombo

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Since the Wael's boon thing has been confirmed to be working as intended, enter this bug in my priority list:

http://forums.obsidi...cy-no-emowered/

#29
limaxophobiacq

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Since the Wael's boon thing has been confirmed to be working as intended

 

What? Can you get it now, or did they intentionally code a talent that you can't get?

 

Edit: Nevermind, found it.


Edited by limaxophobiacq, 15 October 2016 - 03:12 PM.

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#30
Sking

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Since the Wael's boon thing has been confirmed to be working as intended, enter this bug in my priority list:

http://forums.obsidi...cy-no-emowered/

I'm not getting this issue. I've tried to reproduce with Eyestrike and Painful Interdiction. Our fix in 3.00 seems to stand. Can anyone give me anymore information on this issue?

 

- Sking



#31
Silvaren

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It appears to be survey season. First off, thank you guys very much for helping us out with the survey that was sent out with the last backer update. Secondly, one of our partners is running a survey, and they would also love your feedback. This isn’t affiliated with Pillars of Eternity but helps them learn more about what kind of games you’d like to see. If you would like to participate in this survey as well, you can find it here: (Survey Link)
 
- Sking

After so many questions about Pillars of Eternity and possibility of a Pathfinder isometric cRPG or other games with interesting, rare type of settings... Future may be beautiful.



#32
Dr <3

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1. How have we been at communicating with you guys?
I didn't join the beta,  i just commented into the forum after the official release of the game. I was and am very happy with the communication, is the first time in my gamer "career" in wich i found easy and helpful communicate with the developers, and much more importatly, that the developers actually hear the crowd of fans.
 
2. What did you like about us?
- Communication and feedbacks

- Your ability to make great games
 
3. What you like about Pillars of Eternity?

In pseudo-random order

- The ambientation of the story is awesome, i like that the word is a bit "poorer" than most of other fantasy games where everything is epic and/or majestic. In Eora a lot of people just struggle to stay alive, some of the quest are just about everyday life (Mothers pledge, the dragon egg, the march steel dagger for the boy, the death boy in Ondra's Gift), and magic is not clearly overpowered (no infinite resurrections, no time manipulation). The grim athmosphere and the dark humor are a big plus for me.

- Class builds balance. This is by far the most important thing in the game imho. Is the first time i'm able to build every single class in so many different ways. Every class can build in at least 3 or 4 "official" variants, plus a unlimited number of "gimmick" builds. The variety of items helps a lot in this. But really the balance overall is very good, for sure you center the target to make many builds "viable", even if not "optimal".  Is also true that a lot of players putted their effort and fantasy at hard work to find some (i'm looking at you Boeroer), but the simple fact that a wizard can be build as a nuke wizard, or a cc wizard, or melee with summoned weapons, or range with implements, or armored tank, ... IS AWESOME.

- Class system. I like the sense of appartenance that "be something" gives you. I like class system and separated "trees" based on lvls more than a total open ability system.

- The fact that you must not "find" recipes  for enchant or food around the word

- the stash

- The possibility of solo play. Is the game "mode" i prefer most. Actually i started play that way just because with a fulll party the game started to lag terribly from the second half of the game. But i really enjoyed that. Was really difficult at the beginning, but after some "exercise" i was able to finish the game on Potd with most classes.
 
4. What kind of things would you like to see us improve on?
- Your  stronghold. After the with march part 2 update with the arrive of stronghold adventures and visitors it became much better anyway. But i still wish for more adventures and maybe some building or adventure linked to your choices or reputations (es: if you have at least cruel 3 you could be able to build an additional torture room in the dungeon, or something like that)

- NPCs adventures: some of them were awesome (Eder, Durance, Zahua), some a bith meh, in particular Devil of Caroc.

- More "uniqness" of the items: most of times they just give you an ability there is already in the game or is from another class.

- An enchant system that permits more variety of enchants, beside the lashes and slaying

- The load times between areas. Often just go to a tavern or finish a quest where you have to speak with people in different location was a total pain.

- Tha game often "lags" in the second half if you play a full 6 man party even on fairly good PC (mine for example)

- Some features dedicated for "solo" players (es: you should be able to pay someone to finish the caed nua adventures, so you can get some of the reward items)
 
5. Pillars of Eternity missing features.
- see above
 
6. Combat:
The hardest fights:

+++ fights involving huge dragons: Adra Dragon, Alpine Dragon, Llengrath

+ shades in caed nua, the 4 guys outside ondra gift if you are in solo and underleveled, radiant spore, some of the bounties (upsacaled Nalrend for the massive quantity of ogres, upscaled last pirate bounty of WM2) , the monks of the abbey, the eyless ambush in iron flail fort

comment:

-what i like about dragons is that you really have to play totally different from the standard encounter, same goes for the monks of the abbey

- i also like the fact that there are around some monsters that are way stronger than other, so often you have to come back (es: bear cave act 1)

- unespected fights are fun (es eyless ambush in iron flail fort, the death godlike that appears in megran fork)
 
The easiest fights: Thaos, Kraken.

comment: is ok that the game should be beatable also by a "non completionist", but that fights were really too easy for a "final boss".
 
7. Balance issue.

i think that overall the game is very well balanced, i will addd just a couple of things:

- something for high lvl shapeshift druid (es 1 more shapeshift per encounter after lvl 10, or at least more use of the per rest shifter ability --> 2 or 3 cat flurry per rest)

- give the damn chiper a way to buff himself or to cast some spells also in solo (mind shock, amplified thrust, amplified wave, pain attuenement). I did a proper thread asking people for opinion, there was some discussion but in the end the majority thought that it would have been a good idea.

- the sabre nerf is a really good thing, no more "sabre only" rogues

 
8. Bugs.
- Good job about all the "charmed enemies ending combat" thing. Now is much better.

- There was really tons of bug during the development of the game, and much worse bug that come back or new bugs after pach realease, that maybe need more attention. But after all the work actually the game is quite bug-free, what remains is quite minor

 

9. Others:
- Combine "per rest" and "per encounter"  skills.  I mean : you should be able to use the "per rest" abilityes just once per encounter anyway. It have no sense to limit the use of 2 per rest, but you could cast both in the same fight. If the ability is so strong to need a limitation (per rest), so should have limited also per encounter. Spells are outside this argoument of course.

-Sking demostrete a love for this games and the fan so deep that is impossible to not pay him much more

- Reclutate Loren Tyr as a paid beta tester and Andrea Colombo as "fashion approver" for clothes, armour, helms and accessoires.
 

 


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#33
AndreaColombo

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^ I'll do the fashion thing for free but won't say no if money is thrown my way. Just saying.
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#34
Sking

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- Reclutate Loren Tyr as a paid beta tester and Andrea Colombo as "fashion approver" for clothes, armour, helms and accessoires.

 

http://www.obsidian..../open-positions


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#35
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I nearly applied for the position as "build engineer". ;)

#36
AndreaColombo

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What stopped you?
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#37
Silvaren

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I nearly applied for the position as "build engineer". ;)

 

What stopped you?

I would guess - Atlantic Ocean :D


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#38
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What stopped you?

Turned out it wasn't about character builds. ;)


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#39
demeisen

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In Eora a lot of people just struggle to stay alive, some of the quest are just about everyday life (Mothers pledge, the dragon egg, the march steel dagger for the boy, the death boy in Ondra's Gift),

​This is a great observation.

 

I also felt that the Pillars story telling was at its best when it was dealing with small, intimate human level details.  The Ondra's Gift boy ("Brave Derrin") was particularly poignant and well realized in the game.  A lesser game might have gone for the happily-ever-after Hollywood conclusion, but Pillars had the courage to let this play out as it might in real life between a young boy and several murderous thugs.  It has a deeper impact in the way they wrote it, and is more believable for the player.  It made you appreciate what the boy did, even in the face of insurmountable odds.


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#40
Reent

Reent

    (4) Theurgist

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Added a bit about some classes and the mechanics they use.

thats what i added:

Spoiler





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